know a contractor?

[fick]

Hi...

I'm wondering if anyone in the Chicago area has had a contractor come and assess their flooring for heavier loads?

I set up a 90 gallon with 90lbs of rock and 90lbs of sand. I also have a 30 gallon sump that's probably got about 20 gallons inside of it, plus the skimmer, pump, some sand and one smaller rock. Then there's the canopy and that's heavy too.

Let me tell you, everything looks great. I've been so insanely pleased with how everything is going. But now that it's all set and running, I'm getting the fear.

The room that I put it in already had some weirdness going on in the floor (hardwood). My place (on the third story) is eighty years old so I've got some sagging and buckling around beams and whatnot. My inspector said it was typical of its age. Long story short, the added deflection is creeping me out and (of course) I'm having a difficult time remembering just how the floor was before I put the tank up. Paranoia? Perhaps, but perhaps and peace of mind don't sit well in the long term.

So I'm draining it, dumping the water except for whatever the rocks need in a garbage can, and going from there. What I would really like is a professional to come and take a look. Do I know which way the joists are going? Not really. The only area in which I have access to look under the floor is around the batroom. Do I know what the deal is with the funky buckling? No. I have a lot of unknowns. I'd like them answered. And if the answer is "no way can you have this thing up here," that's (unfortunately) cool. I'd just like to know. If I could keep it with sistering the joists, I'd like to know how much that's going to set me back.

So if anyone knows of a trustworthy contractor/engineer, could you pass along their info?

THANKS!!!

Brian

 

[natemorriss]

You need a structural engineer to look at and evaluate the situation. A contractor might tell you something but itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s by no means accurate. Not sure if there is such a thing as an honest contractor.

It sounds like you live in a condo on the third floor. The problem with putting in sister joists is you would either need to remove your floor or the ceiling below. That is not going to be cheap.

I canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t and wonââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t tell you if itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s safe or unsafe to fill your tank. I can tell you some concerns and maybe some possible pluses to the situation.

1 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the sagging floor is probably creep in the timber framing. This is a sign that the original floor is not over designed and probably even under designed. Additionally weight on the floor will result in additional creep/deflection of the floor getting worse with time. Bad.

2 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ The wood will be old growth and as such has tighter grains and generally stronger then the material available today and may even be a hardwood and not pine. Good.

3 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Current design codes base the strength of timber on the lowest 5% of samples tested. Therefore, thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s lots of wood stronger then the design strength. Good.

4 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ There are no rules of thumb to apply here that are often tossed around by contractors or other members on RC.

5 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ The floor should be designed to withstand 30 to 40 pounds per square foot (thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s the current design standards Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m not sure what they did 80 years ago). Your tank which is probably about 1200# would be the equivalent of a 6.5X6.5 area on your floor. This is how rules of thumb get passed along so see point 4 I wonââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t go any further.

In conclusion I own an 90 to 120 year old house. I would not be comfortable placing a 90 gallon tank anywhere in the house.without some form of structural modification.

 

[gvibes]

Is Razorfish seriously still around? I thought that they were one of the many companies that gave me an offer out of undergrad and then folded immediately afterwards (I remember Scient and others).

Also, question for you, Nate.

I live in a converted warehouse->condo, so it has huge freaking joists (they look ~4x12 or 4x14), maybe 2 feet apart or so? Would I have any worries with a 90 or 125?

 

[fick]

Thanks a ton, especially for the comment about the floors possibly being underdesigned in point #1. Not that I know anything, but a few sections of the floor just don't make a lot of sense to me, as in how and why they're bendning in those specific locations.

And yes, as I have noticed in about three days worth of searching before I posted, there's quite a lot of opinions that don't really seemed to be based on much since, like diagnosing an illness in someone, there's a lot of variable that actually need to be observed by someone's own two eyes.

Well I'm definitely draining it to really monitor what happens. Yes, it is my condo and yes, permanant damage is not cool. Still, it's depressing as all hell and I suppose I would still like a dollar estimate on possible remedies.

All of the above aside, if you all see another post from me trying to sell a whole setup sometime within the next week, this would be why.

 

[fick]

The saga of Razorfish...

Many of the large shops were snatched up by enterprising hedge funds looking to put together the alleged best of those still around, get them to make money, then sell them. Razorfish, Scient, Lante, IXL, Leapnet (were I came from) were all bought by a company called SBI -- the hedge fund -- who then sold us to aQuantive as Razorfish. We're now Avenue A / Razorfish and we're actually making heaps of money. Real money, not that pretend stuff from the 90s.

As for your place, as natemorriss pointed out, the rules of thumb are much too broad because you have to take into account things like size of the joists, how far apart they are, the distance they span, the specific location of where your tank will sit, age and condition of the wood, thickness of the subfloor...it's a long list. If you don't have the ability to add support, be it from below with a jack or something, or by sistering or something else, it's kind of setup at your own risk. That's what I did, and while I don't neccessarily regret it (provided I can sell everything if it comes to that) it's just a total bummer being like in the endzone and having to say "actually, sorry, this might not be a good idea."

 

[Caillou]

Do you actually have access to the floor system from below? It almost sounds like it since you mention sisters already. I build houses, I'd be happy to stop by and take a look if your on the north side.

 

[gvibes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6962842#post6962842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fick
The saga of Razorfish...

Many of the large shops were snatched up by enterprising hedge funds looking to put together the alleged best of those still around, get them to make money, then sell them. Razorfish, Scient, Lante, IXL, Leapnet (were I came from) were all bought by a company called SBI -- the hedge fund -- who then sold us to aQuantive as Razorfish. We're now Avenue A / Razorfish and we're actually making heaps of money. Real money, not that pretend stuff from the 90s.

As for your place, as natemorriss pointed out, the rules of thumb are much too broad because you have to take into account things like size of the joists, how far apart they are, the distance they span, the specific location of where your tank will sit, age and condition of the wood, thickness of the subfloor...it's a long list. If you don't have the ability to add support, be it from below with a jack or something, or by sistering or something else, it's kind of setup at your own risk. That's what I did, and while I don't neccessarily regret it (provided I can sell everything if it comes to that) it's just a total bummer being like in the endzone and having to say "actually, sorry, this might not be a good idea."

Wow, those names are really coming back. CMGI Solutions was another one I remember. There was one called Diamond too, I think. Not quite sure who I all got offers from. I was an '01 grad, so things were kind of going to hell towards the end. Me, I took a job with a development house, got laid off two months after I started, then hung around unemployed for 8 months. It was sweet.

My tank is going to sit pretty much right between two big-*** (maybe 14"x14"?) columns (only 2' or so from each), so I'm not particularly worried, but we'll see. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the advice.

EDIT: They seriously censor ***? That's some crazy-*** ****. Or maybe I'm just an *******, or a jackass.