Lobophora Variegata Erradication VIA Mithrax Sculptus?

[Rowdy]

This is a continuation of;

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6543

Dealing with the presence of Lobophora Variegata (Brown Wafer Algae), specifically it's erradication from reef tanks. Here is a link to a picture of Lobophoria Variegata;

http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/algae_page/lobophora.htm

Some of you were intending to add Mithrax Sculptus to your reefs to see if they are effective against Lobophoria.
Did you get positive results from the crab additions?

I am at an impasse in regards to erasing the presence of lobophora variegata from my once coralline covered LR. I aim to take any measure necessary to destroy all traces of this algae in my system and to aid the others who are plagued by this ugly brown nemessis.

Please see the prior thread for more detail if interested in aiding in the struggle and post your experiences and replies here if you will.

HAVE ANY OF YOU RID YOUR REEF OF LOBOPHORA VARIEGATA?? ANYONE? IF NOT, have any of you brought the reins in on this beast and gotten it under control? I would settle for isolation if that were the only viable alternative to giving this rock back to the ocean.

Please, help out your fellow reefers in this struggle if you have any information regarding this algae whether it be personal experience, something you read 10 years ago, some old wives tale about eating newt eyes and barking at the moon while pee'ing on an ancient burial ground..anything! please post it here! Thank you.

Also, anyone involved with the afforementioned/linked post please give us an update.

I almost gave up after rescaping and adding a DSB just for fun really, but I buried some of the lobo rock.. R.I.P.
The lobo on my LR is seemingly at a standstill right now, it hasn't advanced very much and it surely shows no signs of a decline as of now. I had to quit dosing kalk because my soft coral didn't like it at all (another thread) but when I was, the coralline was fighting back it seemed. The places I scrubbed the lobo off of the rock are all brown again so don't waste your time. I'm thinking an army of Mithrax crabs might do it. Maybe when they are done, I'll keep one or two for control and lease them out for grazing down other's Lobo.... hmmm Sure would be better than letting them starve or eat my corals should the lobo finally run out.

All replies , as always, are appreciated. And remember, although it is a plague, there is no shame in Lobophora Variegata, so please, don't be shy. *G*
Speak up!

Regards Reefers, Ã"šÃ‚®owdy

 

[Rowdy]

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UP

 

[RFK]

Mine seems to be under conrol. My 2 Mithrax sculptus are doing a fine job. I have no doubt that these guys are helpful in controlling it. There are other things you can do to curb its growth. A competitor is one. Try adding other macroalgaes to compete for the nutrient source. You can also try shading the algae. The wire brush trick is an option but is fairly barbaric and messy in nature... but is a good start to eliminating it when used in conjunction with another method, such as Mithrax.
I have used nothing to curb my algae other than the crabs and it has noticably lessened. Is that due strictly to the affects of Mithrax sculptus? Not 100% sure, there could be other factors like lack of nutrients and such.

These have been my observations.
HTH

Bob

 

[Rowdy]

Thanks for the update Bob! I was thinking about adding macro to the sump for competition but the deal is this, my corals seem alot happier when I feed heavier and the skimmer is barely skimming. I believe, yes believe, this may, yes may, be due to more nutrients staying in-tank. I have an absence of other nusiance algae other than a few valonia bubbles from time to time, which I really don't mind a bit, they don't look so bad and sometimes the coralline will grow right over them. I mean few as in three bubbles at any given time.
I am seriously cosidering the mithrax at this time. I am beginning my research as time permits. Is there anything you would like to add about your Mithrax Bob? ie where did you buy them if MO and did you find any good web based info on them that you recall? Thanks again for the suggestions/experience.

Anyone else???

 

[Rowdy]

Brown Wafer Algae? Anyone?

 

[Rowdy]

Let's take this to the top for another go'round.

Very little interest in examining an end to a popular nuisance it seems, yet many are ready to pounce on the first person who has more than one tang in a 600 gallon tank or a cleaner wrasse the pet shop was gonna kill anyway... what gives? Let's lay aside our criticism lest we will earn a poor reputation as a board like some of the others and get it back to the issues that challenge us. For instance, Brown Wafer Algae or Lobophora Variegata as has been referred. I know quite a few of you have this algae encrusting your LR and this is a popular bane to many wishing to remove it's presence from their reef enviroments.
If you will notice the afforementioned thread you will see that the systems in which this algae is thriving are very diverse in their design and parameters in many instances. From heavy to light feeding to lighting and a host of variables in between, this algae stands up to eradication efforts and wins. Many of our reefs show the threat of having our once excellent coralline algae overrun entirely by this brown plague. Again, for more reference please see the thread linked above. This is as big a problem as hair algae or cryano bacto is to many with fewer combatant remedies known to acheive results. Let's crack this egg open and see what it's got inside folks.

As ever, all replies are much appreciated, Thanks in advance!

 

[6-line]

Rowdy,
Just saw the thread.
As you know, I'm a sufferer of this demon, and as far as the emeral crab for Lobo erraditcation is concerned, I've seen very little results. Unless you have one in a 10 gallon or twenty is a 125, I don't think they can put much of a dent in the amounts we have.
The only luck I have is to let the algae run it's course until it matures to the 'wafer/leafy stage' when you can simply peel off the algae with your fingers or a pair of tweezers. This stage of its growth doesn't happen overnite and as you know, it's difficult to remove when it's clinging tight to the rock (Unless i have some valonia beneath it trying to push upwards) You notice it starting to peel up.
As far as the competitor algaes such as Caulerpa--I have this in my sump and have noticed little or no difference with the competition for nutrients. I dispise this algae, despite the 'diversity' it adds to my reef. It has covered my coraline rock as well and it tends to disturb and perhaps kill encrusting corals such as Briareum sp. and when it begin to creep up the base of soft corals it's best to remove this junk prior to any damage.
So, what else is new
And Rowdy, 100% agreement on the Tang and overstocking threads and their popularity--bottom like, people like to argue and a good, flame throwing thread always gets 'em riled up!

 

[Rowdy]

Six-line! Hey bud,

I was afraid you weren't having much luck using nutrient starvation, I can't like that a bit man. I hoped at least the mithrax were helping out... damn. See what I mean? There are so many knowledgable people jumping in and adding there "IMO's or IME's" when it has to do with the perilous plight of a Hippo Tang stuffed in a 90 gallon tank with a cleaner wrasse and a mean old yellow tang etc., which has a place, but when there's a no win situation a brewing the choir all have sore throats.. or fingers respectively. I'm glad you added your $.02, thanks for the update albeit somewhat gloomy info. I can substantiate your experiences with the Lobo pealing up, mine tried to grow over a zooanthid polyp and got pushed up like that. I haven't had too much of it maturing to the stage where it's edges come off of the rock enough to pull it off, but it has been enough for me to know what you are referring to. I do get that here and there, but what's a drop in the bucket worth when you have ten more full ones on standby? I am truly at a loss for confidence here. No one really seems all too interested at this point either, do you think it's the title of this thread? Maybe I threw some folks off? I dunno. I just find it hard to swallow that so many are quick to jump someone and have not even half that enthusiasm when it's a brain storm effort being initiated, I just don't get it I guess. Maybe if we come up with a new majikal brown wafer eraser we can Ã"šÃ‚® it! I'd buy some if it where available, like "bleach-o-brown wafer of dissmay" All new and Safe For Your Corals and Inverts!! 100% garaunteed!!! Hurry supplies are limited, get you 1oz.
bottle for just $69.95 = S&H while supplies last!! Call 1888nobrown to place your order today!! *G* yeah I wish.
Anyway, someone here knows how we can beat this crud and we're gonna make 'em talk! Let's take a ride to the TOP...

Thanks for the update six-line, I'll be posting images in the next few days so chack back for the cam of shame and a glimpse at my particular HELL!! Later pal.

 

[beanbrrd]

r- no knowledge/exp w/brown algae (yet), other than common diatoms, but i do think mithrax crabs are a good start or at least a supplement to the cure. i had a valonia explosion in a 50gal until my 4 mithrax crabs took care of 90% of it. altho ive seen them eating coralline, it's not enough to effect the overall appearance, plus the coralline grows faster than they could possibly make a dent in anyway. my emeralds are fulla personality - they used to be easily spooked but now they come out w/outstretched claws when they see dried seaweed (supplemental treats) coming. one in particular has gotten huge in the past 8 months, about 4 inches diameter from leg tip to leg tip - he eats any/all algae like a maniac. maybe if you threw in some bigger mithrax crabs you'd see a difference. my crabs definitely prefer algae to meat, so i'm not worried about the big guy eating my fish (as i've heard some ppl report w/unusually large emeralds). jmhexp ~ robin

 

[6-line]

Rowdy and everyone,
People do have this stuff, but i believe they are either unaware of it or the amount is so miniscule they rack it off as dead coraline or something similiar. But be aware-mine started off as a small leaf and it spread throughout my entire tank. The common name and the latin name probably don't ring any bells with most reefers; when you say Lobophora they immediately think of an LPS, not a drasted algae. People with hair algae complain and are asked the usual questions about their nutrient load, skimming, type of water purification, etc. But with Lobo, each one of us have different circumstances--from having RO/DI water, to only RO or just DI or even just tap, to running a high dollar skimmer or a SeaClone to using macroalgae in a sump or not even having a sump! There is no common denominator--it strikes everyone the same whether it's a mature tank or new. I heard or read Lobophora is prevelant in nutrient rich sections of the reef and at the same time read that it's common in newly established reefs; mine is over 18 months old and i know of others with even older tanks with it--so the diversity is there and that circumstance makes it even a more difficult task to come up with a plasible solution. I have a picture from a screen saver that shows life from the Indo pacific; it has a tiny shrimp on a Lobophora covered rock. So it's as abundant in nature as are own aquariums.
So i guess i'm rambling here, but I figured it would also bring it to the top. Hopefully someone might have some insight, maybe theres a marine algae botanist just waiting to pounce on this one.
Good luck

 

[DJREEF]

You know, I'm not sure how this would affect the rest of your reef, but you might 'possibly' consider a parrot fish. It seems that these guys would be ideal for scraping that crap off your rocks. I'm sure algaes like this are on their 'menu' in the wild, judging by the marks that they leave on rocks. Not sure what they'd do to your corals though - I'll leave that to someone who's actually kept them. Just a suggestion for further research. Good luck.

DJ

 

[Rowdy]

Beanbrrd,

Thank you for sharing your experiences with your mithrax crabs. I agree that larger crabs might be the better choice as far as grazing potential, but I prefer not to keep large animals in my 55, they throw off the asthetic balance in my opinion. A friend has a decent sized cleaner shrimp for instance, it looks like godzilla in his 40 somethin reef and no matter where he is, his feelers (scientific term) are sticking out like flag poles.
Another consideration is the lack of other nuisance algaes for the mithrax to graze on once he polishes off the brown wafer algae, will it be coralline or coral or even fish?? I don't know if a smaller crab or ten would be as destructive as a large one should things go awry.
FWIW, where did you purchase your mithrax? LFS or On-line/mail order? Just curious, thanks.


DJ REEF,

Thanks for the idea. I was wondering what, if anything, eats this stuff in the wild, maybe parrot fish? I don't know. I think that they might do more harm than good in a reef tank, but the idea of a fish willing to eat that brown crud might be worth looking into. If ParrotFish did eat this stuff, I might be willing to set-up a fish only with LR and rotate my rock through it piece by piece. Although it would probably be an ongoing affair because in my experience I have found this algae only needs the tiniest rembrance to recolonize at an expedient pace. Whatever the case, thank you for your imput, we need all of the ideas we can get on this one.

6-line,

A marine biologist is what we need, agree, hence the title of the post, not exactly lay terms but someone oughtta pick up on it. You are dead on with the small leaf to entire tank warning, this is my experience as well. I actually didn't mind the small patch of it at first and it's coloration didn't give way to dark brown for some time, it was more an amber/green color with lighter rings towards the edges. The edges are very defined, which is what gave it away on my rock to begin with, If I knew then.....I would have thrown that rock out in the garden....I swear I would have.
Maybe we should enlist DR. Ron or someone to help us out here.
What about an Iodine bath?? Or maybe a strong Kalk bath with a nice scrub included? I noticed mine didn't like kalk too much, but neither do my soft corals for that matter, so I just dose calcium and occasional dkh builder. What do you think? Maybe I can get it to grow onto a dispensable piece of rubble rock and do some psycho(sp?) stuff to it, voltage, extreme temps high and low, chemical solution dips, propane torch, oven bake, something has to work.
I forget how to document an experiment, it seems I recall a general format for such things, with control parameters and findings etc. but only vaguely, it's been too long. Maybe someone else is willing to step up and do a minor study on this stuff? Anyone?

Okay, I'll catch you all in a few. Thanks everyone, your input is appreciated, as always.

 

[Bomber]

Rowdy and all, beware sometimes the cure can be as bad as the problem. I know of one critter that eats this - Mithrax sculptus (golden or green clinging crab Florida). Funny thing, right before I saw this thread, I was on another board talking about this very crab. Jerel

PS We were talking about how to get one out of a tank!

 

[Bender]

Hi, my name is Bender and I like to smoke crack. oops sorry wrong meeting. Just kidding. Seriously though I posted a thread yesterday about brown wafer algae and Rowdy referred me to this thread. It appears I am an unwilling member of the club. It started as a couple of small spots but has slowly and steadily spread. I guess I should tell you all my system specs to add to the data base.
-Oceanic 58 gallon with 380 watts of VHO lighting (2 50/50 and 2 03 actinic bulbs/ torboflotor skimmer run 24/7/ 70 lbs of formerly completely purple encrusted live rock/ 20 gallon sump/ 3 to 5 inch dsb/ 4 maxijet powerheads in the tank (soon to be on a wavemaker)/ Kalk dripped regularly for topoff/
Inhabitants are 1 yellow tang (i know i know) 1 dwarf angel 1 tomato clown 1 pj cardinal and 1 cleaner shrimp and assorted snails and a few red leg hermits
My water paramaters are as follows:
temp-80 to 82
salinity 1.025-1.026
ph-8.2
cal-450ppm
alk-about 3.2
nitrate-0
po4-havent tested
I use only ro/di water

I have no other nuisance algae in my tank. It has been set up for a little over 8 months and things are going well.

I was wondering how the green star polyp idea was working out because i would much rather look at them than the brown scourge.
Aaron

 

[Rowdy]

Bender, Thanks for your input. Your tank parameters pretty much bolster our earlier findings that the Lobophora thrives in many diverse set-ups and is very versatile. I was hoping one of us would be able to hone in on a common denominator between us besides salt and water. We seem to be missing something or at least I hope we are, because no apparent weakness is popping up, this stuff is tough. So far we have established that nutrient starvation really doesn't matter much to Lobo, it's lean and mean, it doesn't seem to mind low light, or no light in some instances. We have found that feeding regimins, lighting types and times, water purity methods, salt mixes, circulation, competition, and being grazed on really make no noticeable difference.
I am currently keeping a small piece of rock rubble in my sump with no light at all to see if perhaps an extended photo starvation period might at least make a difference, but I just began and there are no preliminary results other than that there are none. (the rock has a nice piece of lobophora on it.) So, unfortunately, we really have no promising theory or results as of yet, someone save us.

 

[6-line]

Hi all,
I just found a cure to the disease. . . move your tank to the other side of town and place all Lobo covered rock upside down and reveal the nice coraline stuff that was hidden below (well, even the bare stuff is prettier than Lobophora) Anyhow, this was the fun I had this weekend--I also added about #50 of Southdown to my bed, that was loads of fun, too. Now my Yellow Tang has less swimming room and his passages behind the rock have changed, so he's stressed. When I catch him, he's going back. After over a year, I've realized he's too big for this tank. So there goes my algae grazer. . .
Good luck on the LObo....

 

[Rowdy]

6-line,

Funny thing is, I did that last week, no kidding, right down to the 50# of SD. Our tanks might be twins or something. Good Luck? We need more than luck... we need answers and soon before one of us does something drastic.
Thanks for the updates and posts everyone, I appreciate the help.

 

[Rowdy]

I've gotten a few inquiries as to how things turned out, so here's an update.

First, I no longer have the 55 gallon that the Lobophora was growing in, but the rock was transfered to my 180 gallon sps tank in October '01.

Before breaking down my 55 the lobophora had been gone for some time. It was just a recession without any known catalyst except that I started using a new RO/DI set-up for water.

I believe that something may have been creeping through from the local water supply that was feeding this algae, but I can only guess at this.

That being said, I never really had any algae problems in that reef besides normal start-up algae, and of course the lobophora variegata era. I wonder if this isn't just another one of those things some of us might have to deal with?

Hopefully, some of the others who suffered through this stuff with me have seen a complete or large recession of this stuff over the years as well. 6-Line said that he had seen a decent one in his reef.

It is becoming apparent that this algae is doing well in some other folks tanks, maybe they would like to comment?

 

[jimroth]

Hi,
My name's Jim, and I have Lobophora.
The mithrax didn't do squat for me, and they don't eat my valonia either.
The Kole tang goes at it, but with no effect I can see.
I did have one animal that ate it: Diadema setosum, the long spined sea urchin. I put this guy in the tank and he cleared large areas of lobophora, right down to the bare rock.
The only problem is, he also ate the tips off acro branches, and I had to put him in my other (non-SPS) tank. In that tank there was so much delicious coralline algae to eat that he's doubled in size!
I should add that the lobophora has stabilized and does not seem to be spreading anymore, at least.
I say get a couple of these urchins on a semi-temporary basis, and make sushi after the lobophora is gone.

 

[Mako]

I have some small patches of this stuff that had started to spread around 5 months months ago. It never got to the stage where it was as thick as some of you describe or as the pic in this thread shows. Just by chance I have stumbled across two critters that eat this stuff in my tank. One is a Linckia multiflora and the other is a Mespilia globulus (Tuxedo urchin). I can't say for certain that the starfish made that much of a dent in it, but I know the Tuxedo was chowing on it big time. He leaves distinctive tracks down to bare rock through the stuff. So, I am certain of the urchin eating it and suspect the starfish may have eaten some.

I also noticed that I was able to really stunt it's growth with competitive algae in a bigger fuge. I used to use a 20g for a fuge on my 135RR and moved up to a 55 fuge that has a 5"DSB, with around 40lbs of LR. I went strictly with sargassum and chaetomorpha algae (aka spaghetti) this time in the sump. Neither goes sexual and they both grow like a weed on 24x7 lighting schedule. And I mean weeds. I have to harvest huge handfuls of the chaetomorpha every week or it will start to overtake the fuge.