looking for a little info... Is it ich or a parasite, or neither... SORRY SO LONG

00Warpig00

New member
OK here is the situation.

I'm breaking some rules i'm sure and will zip up my flame suit now but here goes.

I am somewhat new to this, been in the Hobby for about a year and a half but only had a tank for a year. My DT is a 180G. ALL of my fish in my DT have gone through a minimum of 4 week QT period. My QT tank is a 20 High with a HOB filter and a sponge filter being run by a MaxiJet 600. I am in the process of stocking my DT and have tried to have at least one fish in QT since I got my DT. NO fish have ever been into my DT without a 4 week minimum QT some unfortunately went longer. So far I have NEVER had a problem in my DT tank with the health of my fish other than a goby becoming a tile surfing statistic. this question is about my fish currently in QT.

I recently picked up 4 new additions that are all currently in my QT. I realize I should only QT one fish at a time but am breaking that rule because I am trying to introduce pairs of fish. One pair that from my reading generally are great to pair up, Two Lined (Railway) Sleeper Goby (Valenciennea Helsdingenii) and a much more complicated pair to pair up, a pair of Flame Angels (Centropyge loricula). I have a small pile of sand in my QT to help make my Goby's feel more at home. I also have several large PVC elbows and pipe sections in my QT to provide shelter. I realize that I also shouldn't be doing both pairs in a 20 High QT at the same time, but chose to take the chance for a few reasons. I want pairs of each, the Goby's easy, the Flame Angels, a different story. It has been impossible over the past several months to find pairs of each or even a single healthy female flame angel. All that seem to be around are males. Recently after months and months of waiting all four fish I wanted two pairs of two became available AND my QT was empty and ready for fish. SO even tho not the best idea I am reluctantly giving it a go due to timing. I always float acclimate my fish and these were no exception. I think next time I add fish I will drip them instead as it seems not only easier but a better option. My QT parameters are as follows...

Tank: 20G High
Temp:78F-84F (no chiller and it sometimes gets a little warm in the room).
SG: 1.015 for 3 week minimum then during the fourth week of QT if all is well slowly increasing to match my DT at 1.025
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate ~20ppm

Water tested every couple of days. Fish have been in QT for a week as of today and water parameters have been rock solid with Nitrate slowly rising over the week. As of yet I have done no water changes in the QT but top it off with RODI every other day or so when I test.

The Goby's are getting along splendidly and are good buddies and hang out together all the time. They do not bother the Flame Angels or each other. I got the smallest Flame Angels I could find that appeared healthy. I did this because my pairing angels reading suggested the smaller the better the success rate of pairing. I believe I correctly have a male and female but they were NOT paired when I bought them. The male is ~2 inches long and the trailing edges of his dorsal/anal fins are triangular (assumed male). The female is ~1 1/2 inches long and the trailing edges of her dorsal/anal fins are rounded (assumed female). As I said above I happened to find all four fish at the same time after looking to do one pair at a time for the entire spring and summer so I went ahead. All four fish were added to the QT at the same time. The Flame Angels leave the goby's alone. The male Flame Angel chases the female around the tank a little from time to time in short bursts and has nipped at her a couple times in the beginning of the week but there has been no actual fighting. Sometimes they are near each other and he does not chase her either. It appears as if they may end up getting along ok. The jury is still out. I have attached a link to QT tank pics and a video below.

Now that you all have the build up, this brings me to my question. The female Angel has developed a spot on the very top edge of her dorsal fin on one side. I have seen pics of ich on tangs and such and this doesn't appear to be ich when compared to pictures I have seen. The pics I have seen look like ich is a crater type issue in the scales not something stuck to a fin. It looks like it may just be something stuck to her fin, but I'm not sure. She swims allot and is quick so it is hard to get a good pic of it but I have tried (see below). I have also seen Flame Angels at some LFS's with their (usually pectoral) fins half rotted away with a white crud on them. All four fish seem to have perfect fins other than the female Flame with this spot. All pectoral, pelvic, and caudal fins on all the fish are pristine.

All four fish are eating aggressively. Is this spec of whatever, something I need to be on top of? It just appeared out of the blue yesterday, but is still there today.

Best pic I have of the spot. Will keep trying to get a better one.

20111018_212002.jpg



Link to Video. including the Male giving a short chase to the female.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln44Tg6SzNo

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick
 
Hard to tell; but it looks too big to be ich or similar parasite. Maybe lympho (best guess), nothing to worry about in QT. If it remains as just one bump, on one fish, its not a contagious parasite. Watch closely for more spots, though.
 
That's probably either lymphocystis or a bacterial infection developing. Lympho is a virus that will probably just go away on it's own. You can aid her immune system to fight this virus off by maintaining impeccable water quality (for you, this will probably mean lots of WCs) and feeding vitamin enriched foods (I soak in Selcon). If it's a bacterial infection, then that's a whole different animal. You will probably have to end up treating w/ antibiotics, such as Furan-2 or Maracyn 1 & 2.

IMO your female Flame looks stressed and that isn't helping matters any. Is the male constantly chasing her like that? I don't know... she just doesn't seem to swim right. Kind of erratic.
 
I believe my yellow tang had the exact same thing when I bought him. It went away after a couple of weeks in QT.
 
UPDATE!!! The spot on the dorsal fin has vanished. Now there is a spot on the caudal fin that just appeared out of nowhere. I have attached a new picture and a new video. The male and female are getting along a bit better as time goes by. I have actually seen them swimming near each other with no aggression. He still chases her away at times. It seems he is warming up to her a bit. It also seems she is a little less stressed, although she still is swimming kinda funny. She is not very graceful. seems like if she stops moving her pectoral fins she will drop like a rock as opposed to gliding through the water like the male.

The NEW spot...

flamespot.jpg


The new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPr5xiOuLDQ


Thanks for any insight...

Nick
 
that looks like lymph. don't worry about it. just make sure your water quality is good. feed it good diet and it should disappear soon enough.
 
UPDATE! the spot is gone. The angels seem to be getting along even better. The male still puts in a little bit of half hearted chasing of the female, but I see the male and female near each other more frequently now. I'm guessing you all were right. Most likely Lymph brought on/showing due to the female's stress level. The general tank atmosphere seems less stressed lately and the female is even swimming around a bit better. The two Goby really seem to enjoy each other's company. They hang out next to each other all the time and even share and sleep in the same hiding spot inside a 4" PVC elbow with sand piled at one end that they constructed in the QT tank. I have been feeding several different foods and the Goby are complete pigs and will eat just about anything. I have tried Hikari Krill, Mysis, Blood Worms, Mega Algae, even Tubifex Worms (Ik Tubifex is for FW fish). Also tried Formula 1 pellet and a clip with Seaweed select green algae with garlic. Tried Instant Ocean seaweed blend and marine blend as well. Also tried raw shrimp (shaved) from the seafood counter. Like I said the Goby are pigs and eat just about anything. The Flame's seem to really like in the order of their preference... the shaved fresh shrimp, of all things the Tubifex worms, and then the Mysis and Blood Worms.

I also did a low stress 50% water change. I went into the tank one night after lights out and put a long airline tube all the way to the bottom and put a PVC pipe on it to hold it down. routed it out the tank. The next day after lights out I unplugged the filters and siphoned half the water out (BTW siphoning 10 Gallons through an airline tube takes about 90 minutes as does pumping water back) and then pumped my 48 hour old temp/salinity matched sw in through that same airline. Didn't put my hands in the tank at all the day of the water change. NEVER even opened the lid to the tank when doing the change. Plugged the filters back in when finished. Going to wait a few more days and do the same again just for further reduction of Nitrate.

Now... Just 3 or four more weeks of hopefully continuously healthy fish and then into their new home. I'm hoping the difficult part has passed. :)

Nick
 
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