Mag pump or Quiet one?

[klese]

Hello fellow expert reefers,

I'm thinking about setting up a sump for a 29 gallon and was wondering what return pump do you guys reccomend? Been looking at the Mag 7 or 9 as it seems to be pretty popular around here. Is the Quiet one better? less noise? The tank is in the bedroom so the less noise the better. Thanks for looking and inputs are welcome.

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

If noise is the key factor, Eheim is your best choice. Plus in a 29 heat transfer is more of an issue, and Eheims are great for that too. Between the two mentioned, I'd get a Mag. As far as size, obviously you don't want to overpower your overflow and unless you're creating flow with your return pump you don't need any Mag 7 or 9. The 9 with 4' head will produce about 800gph -- that's waaaaaaaay more than you'd want going through your sump and probably more than your overflow on a 29g can handle. I'd recommend around 5X the tank volume through the sump per hour for most applications -- so for the Eheim that's a 1048, for the Mag that's a Mag 2.

 

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6960816#post6960816 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaskan Reefer
If noise is the key factor, Eheim is your best choice. Plus in a 29 heat transfer is more of an issue, and Eheims are great for that too. Between the two mentioned, I'd get a Mag. As far as size, obviously you don't want to overpower your overflow and unless you're creating flow with your return pump you don't need any Mag 7 or 9. The 9 with 4' head will produce about 800gph -- that's waaaaaaaay more than you'd want going through your sump and probably more than your overflow on a 29g can handle. I'd recommend around 5X the tank volume through the sump per hour for most applications -- so for the Eheim that's a 1048, for the Mag that's a Mag 2.

I agree that the Eheim would be best for a bedroom tank, but to be sure on the flow, use the head loss calculator on the RC home page to determine the real flow you will get using different pumps.

 

[Blown 346]

If you are either going ot go with a Mag or Quiet One pump I would go with Quiet One. They cost les to run, are less wattage, make less noise, dont retain heat like the mags, can be run internally as well externally, the mags arent a external pump. The quioet One's are less expensive.

 

[sjm817]

Eheim 1250

I'd take Mag over QO. Way too many complaints of QO not starting after a power down. At least a Mag is reliable. For a 29G, you dont want a huge pump. A Mag3 would work well, maybe a Mag5.

 

[klese]

Thanks guys! So the Mag 7 or 9 is too much? Looking through the nano section, it seems that for 29 gal, lots of people are using 7,9, even 12! and one guy claims that the 12 is not even enough. I'm confused. I was attempting to created more flow in the tank using the returns. The overflow box will be a hang-on type (small). I was going to go with the Mags since they seem to be popular as the most bang for the buck, but noticed that the Quiet Ones were even cheaper... Went to the LFS and all they had was Ehiem. I saw the 1250 (rated for 79 gal, what does it mean?) $59.99 which is cheaper than the Mags. It seems that everyone has good things to say about the Ehiem. Should I go with the 1250 for $59.99? or any other suggestion?

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

Depends on how you want to create your flow. Some people like to push tons of flow through their overflow and sump, and on nano tanks especially since they don't have as much room for powerheads. The 1250 puts out just over 300 gph of flow. I wouldn't trust the RC head loss calculator when it comes to an Eheim -- they underrate the pumps and I personally don't think there's any significant head loss whatsoever. To me, you have to ask someone who owns a 1250 what they think the output really is. For example, at 4' head my 1262 is "supposed" to put out 600 gph per their chart which is the curve that's used in typical calculator. Given that it easily overpowers one of my overflows rated for 600gph when I've tested it, I know it puts out more like 800-850.

How much flow can your prospective overflow handle? That's question number one...

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6961276#post6961276 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I'd take Mag over QO. Way too many complaints of QO not starting after a power down. At least a Mag is reliable. For a 29G, you dont want a huge pump. A Mag3 would work well, maybe a Mag5.

Mags reliable?


Maybe I should have you over to talk to mine. It doesnt realize its reliable.

 

[klese]

Alaskan, the overflow box is rated at 700 gph.

 

[mfinn]

I have always been a big fan of the mag pumps. I have two the have run steady for 3 years now and they always start back up after shuting them off. I have a mag 12 that I use externally on a closed loop. They do work external.
However the dependablty and the quietness of the Eheim is hard to beat.
Don't think I've ever heard of any complaints with them.
Another option is to go with a quiet lower powered pump as a main pump with another like one of the less expensive ones on a closed loop and on a timer to start up after sleep times are over and turn off in the evenings

 

[klese]

trying to follow.... but admit it's a little confusing as this is the 1st attempt at setting up a sump. Would like to keep it as simple as possible. How loud is a Mag pump? as loud as Prism skimmer? (cuz that's loud) So, a Mag 3/5 or Eheim 1250 or.........

 

[sjm817]

Eheim 1250. (very) quiet, reliable. There is no downside. The "Quiet PC" crowd use these pumps to liquid cool computers.

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

Sounds like the Eheim 1250 is what you should get since you're trying to produce a significant amount of your in-display flow with the return pump. You can always crank down the output with a ball valve if need be. Since it's your first sump, I would plumb it with plastic tubing the first time -- easy to do, easy to modify if you want to (such as to add a valve, to T off some of the flow for a fuge, whatever).

Mag pump isn't as loud as a Prizm skimmer. Not even close. But with Eheims I have to check the plug and/or output to know if they're on -- dead silent. In your bedroom, I think that would be priority #1. You would hear Mag pump vibration if you have an otherwise quiet house.

You will probably need to spend more time silencing your overflow.

 

[klese]

Are you suppose to match the overflox rate to the return rate? example: overflow box 700 gph/ Mag 7 700 gph. What is Eheim 1250 rated at?

I've been spying on the LFS system to see how they plumbed their system. On a 29, they used a hose connected to a scwd and split into two returns (using rubber hose). I love the look of plastic tubing as I've seen most of RC reefers have it, but unsure if I can set it up properly. As far as cranking down the output with the ball valve, are those the open elbow piece with the turning knob? Did not know that overflow box make noise??? It's getting clearer little by little. Thanks guys.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6962388#post6962388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klese
Are you suppose to match the overflox rate to the return rate? example: overflow box 700 gph/ Mag 7 700 gph. What is Eheim 1250 rated at?

No. The return pump has to have less flow than the max flow capacity of the overflow. Eheim 1250 is "rated" at 317 GPH. The Eheim pumps typically flow way more than their Mag and QO counterparts with similar ratings. The Eheim pumps dont lose a lot of flow from head loss like the others do. I'd say its probably like a Mag5 or so.

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

Yeah, a more emphatic NO here. You need to have some flow capacity in "reserve" in case anything (debris, macroalgae, snails, whatever) ever compromises your overflow and cuts down how much flow it can handle.

Skip valves for now, I was just telling you that if you later want to have less flow through the sump, there are options. Plastic tubing is very easy to set up -- put the pump in the sump, hook a tube up to it, and put the end of the tube in your display via a nozzle, spray bar, whatever. Just be sure to use plastic clamps or zip ties to keep it hooked on.

Water splashing down from your tank into a sump is going to make at least a small amount of noise, even if it's all in pipes / tubes...

 

[klese]

So, would Eheim 1250 be efficient for overflow box rated 700 gph?

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

Efficient? Well, yeah -- it would turn over about 10X your tank volume through the sump, which is at the upper end of what most people want. Plus, there's no danger of the pump overpowering the overflow box as long as you keep the box clean.

Do you want all of your tanks flow to be handled by the return pump? If so, then the 1250 isn't going to be enough. How much flow do you want going through the sump and how much flow do you want in the display tank?

 

[sjm817]

If anything, the 1250 is too big. You really want ~ 3 - 5X display volume which is only 90 - 150GPH for a 29G.

I'd say too large a return pump/excessive sump flow is among the most common mistakes made in a setup.

 

[klese]

OK, I see...so if the return pump is too strong, it will overpower the overflow which would cause a flood.

Current flow is handled by 4 small powerheads: Maxi-jett 1200 (295 gph), eheim (170 gph), and 2-rio 120 (120 gph) for a total of about 700 gph. Oh, i have a CPR HOB skimmer for additional flow. Will it be too much flow in the tank? How much flow is suppose to go through the sump?