Mantis No Holds Barred Matches....

[vapester]

.....anyone else ever have Mantis Death Matches? I got mine in a 55 gallon with pretty good filtration and I change some water afterwards, but man, there's like no competition. A couple days ago it was, Tyson vs The Claw. Well, I mean it was a pretty good sized crab, about 2 1/2 inches long, the mantis is i'd say almost 5 inches long. With a crab he usually will sorta creep up and strike it then flurry back to its hole. It usually doesn't take more than one or two blows depending on the size of the crab to break off his claws. He'll then take a claw back to his den and continue to break it open and do a better job of getting every last piece of meat out of it than any cajun i've ever seen. He doesn't seem to care much for the body though. That last crab was a tough one though, i've never seen anything withstand so many blows and still have even a limp left in them. Usually 3 direct blows (it's a peacock smasher) and the opponents KO'd. Especially with crayfish. I've never seen him scrap a lobster, mainly because I don't catch them and they're to expensive to just kill, but maybe that would be a better match. Just out of curiousity, would a spearer mantis have any chance of beating a smasher mantis of equal length? I doubt it right? I don't know much about spearers but I doubt their appendages are strong enough to pierce an armoured body right? Anyone?
So i'd like top hear from anyone.........what's the best Mantis UFC you've witnessed?

 

[RogueCorps]

Well... My opinion is that you should have more respect for your mantis. I'd never add any "food" to the tank that were big enough to potentially hurt my O.S. You're also going to be dealing with a filtration nightmare and should remove large uneaten pieces ASAP.

JMO

-Rogue

 

[SteveC]

Oh, great, frat boys are keeping reef tanks now.

 

[jedimpt]

I think everyone needs to chill for a minute. We may not all agree with Vapester, but he has a right to do as he chooses with HIS pet. As it is, it doesn't sound like he's put anything in there that can even possibly hurt his mantis.

Besides i've read others do much worse things to their mantis'. Just take it all in stride and learn from Vapester. We all have that evil twin who wants to try things like that!:blown:

 

[RyanN]

Oh, great, frat boys are keeping reef tanks now.

Where did you pull this one from? I was in a fraternity, I keep a reef tank, and I too would never put any of my animals in harms way. Do all grad students stereotype like you? Not all of us are like what you see on animal house.

Ryan

 

[SteveC]

RyanN: Fair enough, I stand corrected.

jedimpt: Does he? Perhaps legally, but morally? There are laws against bull baiting, dog fighting and cockfighting because they are repugnant to most people. While there are probably no laws against this, is it really any different? Maybe it is, but I'm not so sure. Consider that even a frat boy seems to find this objectionable (heh heh, just yankin' yer chain, RyanN!).

 

[vapester]

....I should have more respect for my mantis? That's funny. If anything he's getting a chance to behave more like he would under normal circumstances in the wild. You think feeding him frozen krill or whatever is being nice? Or appropriate? A Mantis Shrimp is a tenacious predator, don't tell me you think he's actually just trying to massage those snail's backs. Who's in harms way? It's a friggin Mantis Shrimp. That's the whole thing, he's the bully on his block, so why not let him hunt and kill his prey as in the wild. Man, SOME of you seem a little soft to be a good Mantis owner. Most of the threads on this boards seem to keep there Mantis in undersized tanks and feed them frozen food way to often, and the frat boy thing....Who? Huh? Dunno where that came from. I was just trying to be a little humerous, jeez lighten up y'all.


BTW....I feed it live crabs all the time as I keep them onhand. Normally just feeder size, but I've never put anything in there as big or bigger than him, nothing could *potentially* hurt the guy. He FLOATS like a butterfly.............STINGS like a bee!!!!!!=)

Tyson is the unmitigated, unadulterated, undisputed heavyweight crustacean...................OF THE WORLD!!!!!

 

[RogueCorps]

Re: Mantis No Holds Barred Matches....

.....anyone else ever have Mantis Death Matches? ... I've never seen him scrap a lobster, mainly because I don't catch them and they're to expensive to just kill, but maybe that would be a better match. Just out of curiousity, would a spearer mantis have any chance of beating a smasher mantis of equal length? I doubt it right? I don't know much about spearers but I doubt their appendages are strong enough to pierce an armoured body right? Anyone?
So i'd like top hear from anyone.........what's the best Mantis UFC you've witnessed?

Vapester,

Jedimpt is right that you can do what you want with your pets. You asked to hear from anyone, so I gave my opinion. In one of Dr. Roy's documentaries, I believe, a smasher makes short work of a slipper lobster that is more than twice it's lenth, and there's the story of two large O. Scyllarus that take out 6 Clown triggers overnight, but does this happen in the wild? Not likely... It's great that you devote a 55 to your mantis, but it's still small enough that any confrontation is likely to be a life or death one. In "the wild" a mantis who's thown in the towel will just swim off to the next million gallons to the South.

You're also talking about the chances of a spearer with your smasher, and if you start your thread "mantis death matches," then it's likely you're going to get a reaction. I'm all for feeding crabs, snails, mussels, crayfish, shrimp, etc. to give her a workout and also so she won't drop her hammers, but I'm not going to chance a lobster at the cost of an irreplaceable eye.

IMO, by taking animals out of the wild they're no longer contributing to their wild systems, so as far as the ocean is concerned, they're dead. So I'm going to keep my pet as healthy as possible for as long as possible.

Again, JMO.

-Rogue

 

[RogueCorps]

Vapester,

I just read your edit... Good to know of your intent. It didn't sound that way in the first post.



-R

 

[Gonodactylus]

It can be a cruel world out there. As is usually the case with stomatopods, the instances of aggression depend on the species, population and habitat, and the species. Some species are not aggressive or occur as such low population densities that they almost never fight. Othere fight frequently. Video monitoring of N. bredini in Panama showed that adults fought other stomatopod two or three times a day. Over a quarter of the adults had some sort of serious wounds that were inflicted by other stomatopods. When adults first start to breed, the sex ration is 1:1. However, males give up their cavities to females to breed and must find new ones. After a couple of years, there are over four times as many females as there are males that age.

Before Gonodactylaceus mutatus was introduced into Hawaii, Pseudosquilla ciliata rarely showed signs of having fought with other stomatopods. Twenty years after the introduction when G. m. populations were peaking, over half of the P. c. carried wounds inflicted by G.m.

As for Odontodactylus scyllarus, in the field they generally occur as fairly low density in open habitat digging easily replaced burrows. They are territorial displaying and occasionally lunging at intruders, but prolonged fights are rare. Usually the smaller animal beats a hasty retreat and the dominant animal does not pursue. Despite their powerful strike, wounds are relatively rare in field collected animals. On the other hand, a couple of adults even in a large aquarium usually will lead to the death of one animal sooner or later. If a weaker opponent can't flee and hangs around, it is a threat and eventually a fight will escalate to strikes - which in this species often means injury or death.

I have studied aggression and communication in stomatopods for many years and we frequently stage fights to determine what variables influence the outcome and what information is being communicated. I usually try to make these contests as "natural" as possible allowing the loser the opportunity to flee. In these situations while we see damaging blows, death is uncommon.

I do remember once serving as a fight promotor. We were working in Thailand and the Crown Prince was visiting the biological station. I was asked to make a short presentation about our stomatopod research. on communication. After the Prince moved on, one of the accompanying Generals asked me to stage a fight. Not being in a position to say no, I selected a large male and a large female G. chiragra figuring that they would put on a good show. I explained to the General that the animals were different colors because they were a male and a female. He immediately said "Oh, so the darker male will win." I replied that because the female had had eggs, that was probably not the case.

As I started to put the animals into a hastily arranged plastic tub which served as an arena, I found myself surrounded by Thai military officers and the table was covered with large bills. The General was making it very clear which was the male and which the female, but not revealing what I had told him about her aggressive state. The female quickly drove off the male and the General picked up much of the money.

Roy

 

[jedimpt]

I'm not condoning anything. I didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers. I too am a frat boy (i live in a frat house so I guess that makes me one) and i like to do things that some might consider dangerous or dare i say stupid (lighting bars on fire, jumping off roofs into pools, racing cars, etc...). So i came onto this thread looking to see what someone has done, not so i can do it myself but just to know. I know of bullfighting and cockfights and even dogs fighting. Its actually a big part of my culture since i am mexican. i actually hate all of that and want no part of it. But curiosity got to me and i wanted to know since i would never do this to my mantis (eventhough its been suggested around the house).



BTW before you start imaging Animal House or even Old School, this is a medical fraternity at a medical school. We are your future doctors. Beware of the ER.

 

[jedimpt]

On a lighter note, that's a great story Roy. you shoulda tried to get in on the action yourself with your officer "buddy".

 

[Sloth]

I don't think seeing what your mantis can do against big prey animals is cruel. They are intelligent animals and probably love the opportunity to stretch their claws a bit after sitting in a boring aquarium all day.

 

[Kara]

I put a large EVIL emerald crab that was eating my red colonial feather dusters in my mantis Tank-Of-Doom. I could hear the 'hits' the mantis was landing on the crab, clear in other room. The emerald crab would put up it's claws and shake them at the mantis and the mantis would attack the crab. The mantis and the emerald crab battled it out for a good 10 minutes with no clear victor. The crab lost a leg and the mantis lost interest. They lived together in harmony for a few weeks until I gave the emerald crab to someone who needed one. I figured the crab had earned his right to live.

 

[chepvegas]

This thread is little more than flames from people that wouldn't dare say any of this in person. I also love the grammatical syntax of angry pseudo intellectuals; I giggle every time I read this thread like a little girl. Frankly this thread top to bottom is as worthless as they come.

 

[Sloth]

Nevermind, I deleted my post. I don't want to be a troll-feeder.

 

[chepvegas]

Nevermind, I deleted my post. I don't want to be a troll-feeder.

I was typing something about the English language and your post; but as you have changed it I think we have an understanding.

 

[lilswanwillow]

you know, there was interesting questions brought up though, for people like me that just like to know this kinda stuff...
in the wild (NOT IN OUR TANKS) which would win, a spearer or a basher?
Its hard for me to tell, you know... the spearer could easily puncture a vulnerable area, while the basher could bash things off...

and at no point did the original poster say he was adding crayfish to the tank that were beyond the killing capabilities of his mantis, and he wasn't saying he was going to do any of this, it was just a question!!! wow...

 

[Sloth]

As previously mentioned: The spearer and smasher don't really compete for the same habitat, so they probably wouldn't compete that much in nature.

HOWEVER

Put them in a dixie cup and my money is on the smasher

 

[vapester]

....well, I got some interesting takes outa this thread. Thanks alot for sharing your story Gonodactylus. It's interesting to hear that their aggression is not always forced but seemingly more defensive or territorial. I'm sure you have staged a fight between a smasher and spearer before sometime in your studies, but I guess you'd probably refrain from sharing it now as the way this thread has gone. I gonna go down to Cabrillo Museum here in San Pedro maybe today to see if they still have a Mantis burrow exibit as I saw on a pic at blueboard.
Kara, that's an interesting story too. I can't see how the crab wasn't pounded to mincemeat, it must be a lil' Mantis right? With the amount of force my mantis exhibits with each strike..(he's like 5 inches)..it's scary to think of the damage a large full grown Mantis can do. Stay tuned, i'll really get some nerves going when I stage my next planned fights like.......Tyson vs. The Baby Duck.......or Tyson vs. The Weedy Sea Dragon.......that should be a good one. hehehe...jk.
I have a lil fun with the whole thing, I admit, and I don't think anyone would say there's anything wrong with that. Turning feeding time into a no holds barred fight or even worse, a *death match* is what makes keeping a mantis, in a tank I could be doing all sorts of other things with, fun. It doesn't take a genius to know to take out uneaten pieces right away. But what I think some of you are missing is, the Mantis has unparalleled strength, quickness, vision, and I think even confidence. It's a game of men amongst boys, and even that's a bad analogy. Nothing I could put in there would actually be a threat to the mantis..well, almost. But I don't put large cephs or trigger fish in there.
I won't digress, but i'd clean up this thread if I could, jeez.


BTW, I don't think Mantis are just brutal Ultimate Fighting Crustaceans. I study their behavior myself in my own way and they aren't just *tenacious predators* 24/7 as I called them. Mine shares a tank w/ 2 former starter striped damsels, which do swim fairly fast and the Mantis seemed to try to catch them when first introduced to the tank. But he also shares it with a very small clownfish (about 2") which the Mantis just loves to watch, it swims right in front of it, even naps on the sand. It is not afraid of the Mantis as he has never tried to attack it and they sorta hang out. Mantis can appreciate having a buddy in captivity. Also I added a 3 1/2" shrimpfish like 1 1/2 months ago. It looks for food everywhere often at the mouth of it's cave. Once again it's just an interesting tankmate to the Mantis. Anyhow, just thouht i'd share that.