My Breeding attempt - Perculas:

[dazed]

I would like to start this thread out by thanking rkelman,Fb,agsansoo,lifes a beach & hendersonracing for documenting their threads and information posted in them. It has pushed me over the edge and i have decided to give the breeding thing a try.

So i guess i will start with some background information to get things rolling along; I have what were sold to me as a pair of true perculas. That i kept in my 40g tank for around 3.5 years they grew and became a pair living happily in the reef with their anemone. Here is a picture of mom & dad:

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Fast forward this January i completed my upgrade to a 100g tank and they were transferred along as well. At the end of March of this year i was shocked to find them laying eggs after all of this time and only 2 months in their new home:

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I knew i could not care for the larvae at the time so i have just been letting them lay the eggs and the fry have either been food for my tank or consumed & destroyed by the filtration.

 

[FB]

Not sure if you should thank us or kill us for getting you hooked. Just Kidding.

Anyway you should really try and get them to lay the eggs on something removable. I know I would have quit a long time ago if I had to siphon the larvae out of a display tank every time. But I'm sure you know this!

Anyway good luck and keep us updated. I still have a lot to learn so maybe you will do something different than I did and I can improve my process.

Later

FB

 

[dazed]

So i have now decided to try and see if i can raise some of the little ones. For starters i did not have any space in my house to setup a culture station for the phyto, rotifers, larval tank etc. etc. So i decided to try and use my garage and see what would happen. The garage is detached from my house and it is a metal building with no insulation, heat or a/c. So i was concerned with temp. swings. I figured the best way would be to see if i could grow the food needed for the larvae first. So i placed an order with FAF and purchased their mini culture kit for microalgae & rotifers. Here is everything i started with:

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With the help of Melev & his website i used his recipe to start the phyto cultures:

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In 9 days time i had glowing green phyto that i split keeping one bottle for my reef tank and restarting the cultures again:

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This was all started a couple of weeks ago.

 

[dazed]

Well since that part of the equation seemed to work out pretty well i then decided to try the resting rotifer eggs as the next step. and i can already tell that this is going to be a long journey of ups & downs as i had my first set back already i think:

I followed the directions and hydrated the eggs in the petri dish that i had used for the phyto. At the 24hr mark i did not really notice anything moving in the container but the directions stated to feed them anyway, and i had read in the book by Joyce that you should feed them as well so i did. I added just a bit of phyto to the dish and then got the idea to add just a drop or 2 of the roti-rich.

This is the problem i created i did not take into account the rate at which the roti-rich came out of the bottle. :mad2:

I should have known better but oh well; before i knew it i had overflowed the dish onto my workbench. I read that to much food to soon is not a good idea and i had not planned on moving the culture to more water that soon but did not know what else to do. So I placed them in a 500ml container for a day and then transferred them into a bigger container and added some phyto to it to see what would happen: This is what it looks like now I added the phyto 2 days ago and it has not changed at all:

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Does that mean i killed the culture of rotifers???

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12637846#post12637846 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FB
Not sure if you should thank us or kill us for getting you hooked. Just Kidding.

Anyway you should really try and get them to lay the eggs on something removable. I know I would have quit a long time ago if I had to siphon the larvae out of a display tank every time. But I'm sure you know this!

Anyway good luck and keep us updated. I still have a lot to learn so maybe you will do something different than I did and I can improve my process.

Later

FB

Thanks for the blessing

I have been recording when the eggs are laid and when they hatch. So i knew on Sunday afternoon that she should lay the next batch. I was worried that by adding the tile i might spook her but just like clockwork around 8pm she started to do her thing:

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I still need to pick up a 5 or 10g tank for the hatching i was going to try it with the batch on the tile but i am unsure of the status of my rotifers.

I have placed an order with seahorsesource.com and should receive it Friday. It should contain a live strain of (s) type rotifers. as well as some bbs eggs decapped.
I don't think i will have enough food for this batch?

any & all comments & suggestions are very welcome because i have never done any of this before.

 

[FB]

Even if you don't have enough food I would go through the entire process of trying to get them to hatch in the 5 gallon tank. This way you will get some practice with the transfer. Once transfered you can play with the amount of bubbles you think they need to stay healthy. If/When you get them hatched you can make a decision on whether you have enough food or not. There is plently to learn in this stage to keep you busy.

After several attempts at keeping the eggs healthy for the first night I have finally come up with something that works for me all the time with 100% hatch. I noticed you are using a completely flat tile which works well this way.

What I do is attach the heater to the side of the tank near the bottom and leave enough room between each of the suction cups to place the tile. I then place the tile between the heater and the glass between the suction cups, this way the tile cannot move. I then place the bubbler on the bottom of the tank about 1/2" in front of the tile. I slowly turn the bubbler up until I see all the eggs moderalty moving back and forth from the bubble flow.

Good luck

FB

 

[dazed]

FB; thanks for the advice & information the more i thought about what you typed up i can see your point of grabbing my first shot of trial & error.

Also I know that the phyto & rotifers are to close together right now but i was just trying to experiment with being able to produce the needed food chain first. I plan on changing up the culture station tonight and will be placing the rotifers below the phyto probably in a 5g bucket.

As the rotifers don't need light but it can benefit the culture by having some as it will help keep the phyto that is fed to them fresh until it is consumed.

As an update i checked on my rotifer culture today at lunch and it is more green then before so i am pretty sure that it's a dud for now as it should be going the other way in color if it was alive. Guess i will try again when my live culture arrives tomorrow.

Will a 5g tank be sufficient or should i get a 10g for hatching?

 

[billsreef]

In the long run, you will want to trade in the Miracle Gro for some proper Guillards F/2 media for growing your phyto. It will make for much more nutritious phyto, and therefore more nutritious rotifers, and better and stronger larvae

 

[kar93]

Good luck Dazed, I am looking forward to seeing your progress. When they lay the eggs on the tile, do you remove them just before they are due to hatch or as soon as they are laid? I ask because I thought that the male clown fanned the eggs to keep them cool or something like that.

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12638971#post12638971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
In the long run, you will want to trade in the Miracle Gro for some proper Guillards F/2 media for growing your phyto. It will make for much more nutritious phyto, and therefore more nutritious rotifers, and better and stronger larvae

billsreef; thank you for the suggestion I do have a bottle of micro algae grow from FAF already:
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure...737.3686*2d6Q83&product=MICRO_MACRO_NUTRIENTS

is this the same stuff as you are talking about?

for my current phyto cultures i have been doing the folloing:
Tap water mixed to 1.019 sg
5 ml miracle grow
1 ml Kent's essential elements
16 hours of light
Steady bubbling/shaken each day to stir up the bottom
2l culture containers

if i switch how much of the Guillards F/2 media is used in a 2l bottle?

 

[billsreef]

That's the stuff :thumbsup: Use 1ml per 2.5L. It's a time honed formulation, not only for growing phyto, but for maximizing the phytos nutritional value for use in culture of critters like our fish larvae. If you do enough culturing, the mass pack version is very economical as well

 

[agsansoo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12638092#post12638092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dazed


I have placed an order with seahorsesource.com and should receive it Friday. It should contain a live strain of (s) type rotifers. as well as some bbs eggs decapped.

any & all comments & suggestions are very welcome because i have never done any of this before.

OK the s-strain from seahorsesource.com is different than the L-strain. It needs SG closer to natural seawater. Test the salinity of the rotifers when you receive them, than match that salinity in your culture jar (with new saltwater). Double check with Bill on this, just to be sure. I didn't do this and my s-strain rotifer crashed 2 days later !

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12639537#post12639537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kar93
Good luck Dazed, I am looking forward to seeing your progress. When they lay the eggs on the tile, do you remove them just before they are due to hatch or as soon as they are laid? I ask because I thought that the male clown fanned the eggs to keep them cool or something like that.

kar93; thanks I'm going to need allot of luck or should i say they are

I'm still really new to all of this so someone can correct me if I'm wrong but i plan to remove the tile & eggs the day of the hatch i have been keeping track of when the eggs hatch in my reef and for my tank it seems to be right at 9 days, of course mother nature always has her own plans my last batch hatched half on the 9th day and the other half on the 10th day. i try and keep my reef between 78-80 deg.

From what i understand it is best to leave them with the parents as long as possible. Yes the male constantly fans the clutch of eggs for aeration, I have also seen him mouth the eggs as well, i think he is keeping them clean and removing the dud's as well.

 

[kar93]

FB tells me that he takes them out the last night before they hatch and the air stone keeps movement on the eggs as if being fanned by the male clown.

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12641010#post12641010 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
That's the stuff :thumbsup: Use 1ml per 2.5L. It's a time honed formulation, not only for growing phyto, but for maximizing the phytos nutritional value for use in culture of critters like our fish larvae. If you do enough culturing, the mass pack version is very economical as well

wow; only 1ml needed per 2l bottle. I had been using 5ml of miracle grow. I plan on splitting my phyto later on today so i will make the switch then. What do you think about adding the 1ml of kent's essential? Is it needed?

i have been using tap water as well, i could use ro/di which one is better to use?

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12641873#post12641873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by agsansoo
OK the s-strain from seahorsesource.com is different than the L-strain. It needs SG closer to natural seawater. Test the salinity of the rotifers when you receive them, than match that salinity in your culture jar (with new saltwater). Double check with Bill on this, just to be sure. I didn't do this and my s-strain rotifer crashed 2 days later !

agsansoo; that pretty much matches what the lady on the phone said when i asked her about it.

but is the higher sg (1.025-6) used only for when i first recevie the culture?

and then should i slowly bring it down? I read in Joyce's book that the rotifers produce well at 1.014.

i plan to use a 5g bucket to place the new culture in today how much water should i use for them to start out i am thinking around 2g?

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12644247#post12644247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kar93
FB tells me that he takes them out the last night before they hatch and the air stone keeps movement on the eggs as if being fanned by the male clown.

yeah; a couple of posts up he listed for me his procedure and i plan to try and use that method as well.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12644259#post12644259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dazed
wow; only 1ml needed per 2l bottle. I had been using 5ml of miracle grow. I plan on splitting my phyto later on today so i will make the switch then. What do you think about adding the 1ml of kent's essential? Is it needed?

i have been using tap water as well, i could use ro/di which one is better to use?

You won't need the Kent essential, the Guillard's is formulated to have all the necessary major and minor nutrients, trace elements, and vitamins As far as the tap water is concerned, unless it's contaminated with some pollutants, it will be fine.

 

[dazed]

billsreef; thanks for the info looks like the phyto culturing just got a little easier. Just to make sure i have this all straight in my head. All i have to do is add 1ml of the micro algae grow to each new bottle?

update: i purchased a handheld magnifying glass last night and looked into my bottle of rotifers and from my best guess there seems to be some holding on to the sides of the container at least that is what i think they are? lol...... so maybe there is some life in their after all.

i also just checked my tracking # and it looks like my live strain of rot's will be here today.

how much water should i use to start the culture with?

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12644725#post12644725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dazed
Just to make sure i have this all straight in my head. All i have to do is add 1ml of the micro algae grow to each new bottle?

Correct :thumbsup:

I really don't know anyone bothers with miracle grow when proper f/2 is easy, inexpensive, and grows a superior nutritional phyto to feed our animals with.

With your Rots, match the salinity, pH and temperature as close as possible. Volume wise, I'd go for roughly double the volume they ship in to start.