My first Clam died

[Steve C.S.]

I took a trip to the inlaws for 9 days and when I returned my Crocea was dead. It only had one crab in it and it still looked like the mantel had a little color to it, so I don't think it had been dead more than a few hours.( the shell was open and the clam was a glob in the bottom of the shell) Everything was good when I left, but the guy taking care of my tank while I was gone just fed and added topoff water to my drip, no testing or really even looking at the tank much. My parameters look good except for the Alk was 1.7 Meq/l and the Cal. was down to 400ppm. Nitrites, amon.-0, Nitrates 10ppm, Ph 8.3 and sal. 1.024 with a temp of 80 deg. I can't get to a LFS that will test my water until Tue. to see if my kits are correct.( A holes won't test water on weekends around here). I started back the Kalk drip and added B-Ionic this morning. Any ideas on what else I can test or check to see what may have happened? What is the best way to raise the Alk.? I will do a water change in the morning when I will have some more R/O until then I'm at a loss. Its bad enough to have to visit inlaws 1,000 miles away, but to loose my favorite tank guest, This year has started out pretty crappy.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Steve

 

[cromax]

I really wouldn't worry about it too much. I doubt anything in your water was the cause of death. Clams - especially croceas, die. As I have stated before, it's perfectly normal to lose a few clams. Stress and secondary infection are the usual causes. Nothing you can do about it. Expect to go through a few before you find that special clam that will live with you for years.

Most of the time, clams show little or no symptoms before their death. And they die slowly - until one day, he just can't take it anymore. And the little guy melts into primitive ooze. For a beginner clam, I would suggest either a squamosa or a maxima. In my experience, those guys are impossible to kill. Maxima, maxima, maxima. Takes a lickin' keeps on tickin'.


Good Luck.

 

[Whisperer]

I'd say go for a derasa, you can hone your clam skills with them. They are the hardiest.

 

[blufish]

I agree with Whisperer. Start with a Derasa as they are much more forgiving. Also, stay away from clams that are 2 inches or under. They are not impossible to keep, but smaller clams require more food, e.g. phytoplankton to survive and grow, while larger specimens get more of their energy from photosynthesis.

Also make sure you have no parasitic snails in your tank; some clams that you buy will be already infested and must be thoroughly cleaned before you put them into your reef.

Regards,
Blufish

 

[Steve C.S.]

Thanks for the replies and information. I live around Memphis Tn. Who would you recomend for a Mail order. I would prefer someone kinda close so the shipping will be less stressfull and hopefully a little cheaper. I've got about $100 to spend now for a clam, can it be done for that including shipping?Thanks again.
Steve

 

[Whisperer]

Hi Steve, Check out clamsdirect.com and speak to Barry. He is a nice guy. He is going to have new arrivals tomorrow. He has the best looking maximas (again?!) LOL. Ask him about derasa too. Maybe he can cut you a deal for a maxi and a derasa. Give it a shot. I'm sure he will try. Tell him I told you. Don't miss out on new shipment tomorrow. OK?

 

[Peabody]

There are two top-notch clam places. One in CA, one in PA. I(( have never heard anything bad about either. For you www.eastcoastclams.com would probably be more economical. Rob is a great guy to work with.

 

[epon]

Without a doubt www.harboraquatics.com

Joy and Jt have been nothing but helpful in my purchases. I've been lucky enough to see the clams in person before buying, the hardest part is deciding. I don't think I ever saw one I wouldnt wan't. (I'm very picky)
My only regret when I go to harbor is that I don't have more $$ and space

 

[Sloeber]

harbor aquatics IMO

 

[Project Reef]

I really wouldn't worry about it too much. I doubt anything in your water was the cause of death. Clams - especially croceas, die. As I have stated before, it's perfectly normal to lose a few clams. Stress and secondary infection are the usual causes. Nothing you can do about it. Expect to go through a few before you find that special clam that will live with you for years.

Perfectly normal??
What are you talking about?
Expect to lose a few clams?? Why?

Clams, whether croceas, maximas or squamosas, are almost equal in hardiness. Granted, croceas may be a bit less hardy than maximas, not by much.

Maybe if all you buy is wild 'ponephei' 'chuuk' 'jakarta' etc etc clams, then yes, expect a few (alot of) losses.

If the clam is healthy from the beggining, it doesn't make sense for the clam to die, unless it was infected. Clams don't just die. I don't know why you're stating that they do. They die for a reason.

Stick to the farm raised stuff. I can guarantee that if you're parameters are right, you will not lose the clam. It's almost impossible, unless you have a 6" clown trigger in their picking the heck out of it.

I have to agree 100% with the above poster, HarborAquatics.com is great for marshall island uninfected clams.

Pallmettoreefs and also SPSfrags.com (patrick also gots some great fragments) both get ORA clams as well, which are also marshall island uninfected clams.

Avoid vendors such as FFexpress or any other vendor that buys there clams from the L.A. wholesalers.

But, I must say, I'm optomistic that the wholesalers in los angeles will soon start to change their ways and stop importing wild clams in. It's absolutely idiotic what some of them are doing right now.

Sure, they might bring in farm raised marshall island clams as well, but housing them in the same display as the infected wild clams is foolish.

Once again, I'm optomistic that they will change their ways.
Knock on wood.

 

[Whisperer]

Project Reef, you keep talking about infected. What infection? Can you be more specific? Would you expect at least some change in the clam if something is wrong with it? How sure are you that harbor aquatics only sells farm raised clams. Did they guaratee that? At this time it is hearsay until there is definite proof (in writing, from the owner) that they sell ONLY farm raised clams. We need to know where the source of their clams and we want to call their source and get it staight fromt he horse's mouth. To claim that clams being sold at other sites are "infected" is rather inaccurate simply because sick clams, in all likelihood, will die even before they are collected. The fact that they reached a certain size proves that they are capable of survival, don't you think? Sites that do not have pictures of their clams for sale are the ones we have to worry about as we do not see what we are buying.

 

[cromax]

Project Reef, I surmise you haven't had large numbers of clams shipped to you before. Tell me, how many specimens have you observed? I have owned a touch under 70 "wild" and farmed clams in my years of clam keeping and observed countless more in Palau and at wholesalers. I have seen just about every parasite and diseases seen in these clams - even WSD.

You say that all clams are equally hardy? You are mistaken. By the time a crocea is 3-4 years old in the wild, his shell is very well entrenched in coral rock. Find a "wild" crocea that is not burrowed into rock. I challenge you. With the largest byssal opening of any clam, potential predators are given easier access to their tissues if they are not protected by rock. Does this play a role in their hardiness? Compare the byssal opening of a maxima and a crocea. Tell me what you see.

This is to say nothing of protozoal or bacterial infections best observed under electron micrographs that you would otherwise not see, and often show no visible symptoms until the clam is overwhelmed. Or even Perkinsus!

And for the record, unless the clam comes from a site like ORA, what is the real difference between farmed clams in the Solomons or Marshall Islands, and "wild" clams? Don't they all live in the same ocean with the same pathogens? The only real difference is that farmed clams grow in cages and are found in shallower water depths and "wild" clams don't. Wild collection also raises some handling issues and possible byssal damage, but that's another book.

<enter sarcasm>Gee, that's funny. I thought that bacteria and nasty diseases only grew in wild clams!!!!<end>

Buy farmed clams because it saves wild clam populations - that's it.

My original post to the thread starter was under the assumption that he would want something colorful, since he had first bought a crocea. Given the choices, a maxima or squamosa would fit the bill. I'm not typing anymore.

 

[Project Reef]

Project Reef, you keep talking about infected. What infection? Can you be more specific?

Whisperer, if you have no idea what infection I am talking about, please do a search on clam diseases my friend. There are numerous posts on them.

How sure are you that harbor aquatics only sells farm raised clams. Did they guaratee that? At this time it is hearsay until there is definite proof (in writing, from the owner) that they sell ONLY farm raised clams. We need to know where the source of their clams and we want to call their source and get it staight fromt he horse's mouth.

I have gotten this straight from Mr. Ed's mouth.
I've had conversations with many clam vendors that WISH, they had harbor's connections w/ the marshall island clams. So far though, it seems as if the owner of the Marshall Island's farm is dealing with strictly harbor aquatics and SDC in LA. I challenge you to find an infected clam from the marshall islands. You won't.

To claim that clams being sold at other sites are "infected" is rather inaccurate simply because sick clams, in all likelihood, will die even before they are collected. The fact that they reached a certain size proves that they are capable of survival, don't you think? Sites that do not have pictures of their clams for sale are the ones we have to worry about as we do not see what we are buying.

Do some research, and see if you feel the same way. If you have been through what I and several other reefers have been through with this disease then you'd have a different opinion.

Once again, stick to strictly Marshall Island farm raised clams.

 

[Project Reef]

Project Reef, I surmise you haven't had large numbers of clams shipped to you before.

You need to stop 'surmising'.

. Tell me, how many specimens have you observed? I have owned a touch under 70 "wild" and farmed clams in my years of clam keeping and observed countless more in Palau and at wholesalers.

It's not an exaggeration when I say I have 'observed' more than 400+ wild caught clams, easy. Suffering from this disease/infection/pathogen or whatever the heck you want to call it.

In my personal tanks, I've lost over 2 dozen wild clams, at different times, because of this disease. And this is just Me. I am not even including the 100+ clams from other local reefers and local stores.

You say that all clams are equally hardy? You are mistaken. By the time a crocea is 3-4 years old in the wild, his shell is very well entrenched in coral rock. Find a "wild" crocea that is not burrowed into rock. I challenge you. With the largest byssal opening of any clam, potential predators are given easier access to their tissues if they are not protected by rock. Does this play a role in their hardiness? Compare the byssal opening of a maxima and a crocea. Tell me what you see.

No, you are mistaken. I do agree that croceas are slightly less hardy, but the key word here is Slightly. A wild crocea that has burrowed himself in rock has nothing to do with what you're trying to say. Well, perhaps it does, since it doesn't say anything, and your entire post seems pretty nonsensical.

You tell me, what the heck the hardiness factor in an established reef aquarium, has to do with a large bysall opening which is prone predetation on the natural reefs? Nothing, well unless you like to stock triggers, puffers and other predatory fish in with your croceas.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Which is once again completely nonsensical.

And for the record, unless the clam comes from a site like ORA, what is the real difference between farmed clams in the Solomons or Marshall Islands, and "wild" clams?

First of all, What does ORA have to do with anything? ORA clams are still clams that came from the marshall island farms, so according to your logic, they are infected to. Why don't you group them in with the rest of your interpretation of the wild caught clams?

It's becoming apparent to me that you are clueless about this whole realm of wild caught clams and the difference between farm raised clams. You also encourage this more with your next statement.

Don't they all live in the same ocean with the same pathogens? The only real difference is that farmed clams grow in cages and are found in shallower water depths and "wild" clams don't. Wild collection also raises some handling issues and possible byssal damage, but that's another book.

<enter sarcasm>Gee, that's funny. I thought that bacteria and nasty diseases only grew in wild clams!!!!<end>

Buy farmed clams because it saves wild clam populations - that's it.

LOL. Do some research. Good luck with your clams.

My original post to the thread starter was under the assumption that he would want something colorful, since he had first bought a crocea. Given the choices, a maxima or squamosa would fit the bill. I'm not typing anymore.

Once again, I want you to realize that there is no significant difference between keeping a healthy maxima, a healthy squamosa, a healthy derasa or a healthy crocea - healthy, in an established reef aquarium.

You might have a slight point about croceas being a bit more fragile in the wild in comparison to maximas, but in the home aquaria, no my friend - There is no big difference.



Once again, I will end this by saying, AVOID all wild caught clams and stick to strictly the clams that have entered the U.S. DIRECTLY from the marshall island's.

Avoid marshall island clams that have been housed with wild caught clams - aka AVOID several of the los angeles wholesalers and affiliates.

Buy ONLY from sources that ONLY import Marshall Island farmed raised clams such as ORA clams, Harbor Aquatics and the few other venders that ONLY import ORA clams.



I will NOT stop this rant so please just learn to deal with it.

Once the importing of all wild caught clams stops. Then I will shut up. Until then, LOVE ME.

 

[cromax]

Project Reef, your posts speak for themselves. But I must set the record straight for those that do not know:

Farmed clams are reared in inshore facilities throughout their larval stage, and when they reach the sessile stage (seed clams), they are placed in cages in the ocean to grow out to salable size (about 2 to 3 years), they are shipped out. Divers routinely check on the clams for algae control and visual inspections.

It is my understanding that ORA clams are taken as young clams and then grown out in their green houses for a while here in the Fort Pierce area away from the ocean. Hence, they are raised by ORA in closed systems.

Project Reef, it is my desire that everyone understands a little more about clams, and becomes more educated. You are undermining this with your speculation.

Flame On, because I'm Out.

 

[Project Reef]

Cromax, my apologies for labeling you as clueless. You are not clueless, infact you seem like a pretty bright guy. Now come over here and give me a hug.

 

[cromax]

Me.......? Bright................?
:hmm4:

 

[dznuts007]

I like clams...too bad mine all perished when I left for northern CA.

 

[Steve C.S.]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sorry if it caused a fued. I think I will make sure my tank is ok befor I order another clam. If I can't find anything wrong in the tank, I will do a few water changes over the next couple of months and try it again later. I think if I knew where my clam came from it would help but I will be sure I know where my next one is from. Thanks again for all the help and info.
Steve