My sweet new "true" polyps
- Thread starter flyyyguy
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Premium Member
C'mon, "True".......everyone knows the correct term is "Real Deal"..... 
But I think we are on the same page flyyguy
Look, I am the first to admit the naming thing is ridiculous, which is probably why I havn't been buying anything.
Sadly though, I do collect and search out those high dollar and rare/elusive LE's.......and took a lot of time to understand this mess......and it has many factors and reasons why its so confusing.
At the heart of it....its the money factor. People name things just to name them, or call them "True" when they are just "Truely trans-shipped".
My friend Mark explained it really good one time by saying "I collect not only the corals, but the stories with them." Some of them like the Eddies Purple Monster, are really interesting.
In addition, due to my location I either know the person, is a friend of a friend, or that I have respect for them as a hobbiest, or know the store where it came from.....this is why I collect them....this is why a lot of people collect them. Unfortunatly most never get past the money aspect and see that side of it.
Collecting and paying those high prices, one needs to be cautious and know who you are dealing with.......and be clear on WHY you want said coral in the first place......does it matter if it is AC or "True/Real Deal"....if not....find some that aren't priced as such.
There is no garuntee, but as I mentioned earlier I collect pieces that have trancendend from being just a Blue Polyped Red Danae.....to the Superman Monti.........
When I hear things like garuntees and certificates, I laugh......collecting the named pieces isn't about that.......its about networking, interacting with other likeminded reefers who have the same passions and values you do, and first and foremost.....trust.
This is how an individual hobby can become a community.....and quickly shut out the quick buck scam artists that would love to prey on my passion and overcharge..........
So if you are interested in "True" pieces, great, its fun to search for something and find it. But, that doesn't start with a Google Search.....it starts by participating here, networking and establishing that grassroots network of like minded reefers whom you don't need a piece of paper from because they are not just a "seller", but a friend.
I spend a TON of my time on RC........most of it answering questions and helping because I am passionate about the hobby......find people like myself to buy from or trade with, so that when they tell you its "True or Real Deal".......there is no doubt in your mind.....and don't buy unless you know them personaly or another friend can vouch for them.
Thats how you get rid of the scammers and the cheats.....but first have the right reasons for wanting the collector pieces in the first place........
Disclaimer: My .02, IMO, not argueing, not debating, take it or leave it, just don't want to see good people getting ripped off, and help you see there is more to it than economics........etc,etc,etc
But I think we are on the same page flyyguyLook, I am the first to admit the naming thing is ridiculous, which is probably why I havn't been buying anything.
Sadly though, I do collect and search out those high dollar and rare/elusive LE's.......and took a lot of time to understand this mess......and it has many factors and reasons why its so confusing.
At the heart of it....its the money factor. People name things just to name them, or call them "True" when they are just "Truely trans-shipped".
My friend Mark explained it really good one time by saying "I collect not only the corals, but the stories with them." Some of them like the Eddies Purple Monster, are really interesting.
In addition, due to my location I either know the person, is a friend of a friend, or that I have respect for them as a hobbiest, or know the store where it came from.....this is why I collect them....this is why a lot of people collect them. Unfortunatly most never get past the money aspect and see that side of it.
Collecting and paying those high prices, one needs to be cautious and know who you are dealing with.......and be clear on WHY you want said coral in the first place......does it matter if it is AC or "True/Real Deal"....if not....find some that aren't priced as such.
There is no garuntee, but as I mentioned earlier I collect pieces that have trancendend from being just a Blue Polyped Red Danae.....to the Superman Monti.........
When I hear things like garuntees and certificates, I laugh......collecting the named pieces isn't about that.......its about networking, interacting with other likeminded reefers who have the same passions and values you do, and first and foremost.....trust.
This is how an individual hobby can become a community.....and quickly shut out the quick buck scam artists that would love to prey on my passion and overcharge..........
So if you are interested in "True" pieces, great, its fun to search for something and find it. But, that doesn't start with a Google Search.....it starts by participating here, networking and establishing that grassroots network of like minded reefers whom you don't need a piece of paper from because they are not just a "seller", but a friend.
I spend a TON of my time on RC........most of it answering questions and helping because I am passionate about the hobby......find people like myself to buy from or trade with, so that when they tell you its "True or Real Deal".......there is no doubt in your mind.....and don't buy unless you know them personaly or another friend can vouch for them.
Thats how you get rid of the scammers and the cheats.....but first have the right reasons for wanting the collector pieces in the first place........
Disclaimer: My .02, IMO, not argueing, not debating, take it or leave it, just don't want to see good people getting ripped off, and help you see there is more to it than economics........etc,etc,etc
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If this post saves just one newb from paying extra for something becasue soemone told them it was true or paying a ton of money for a recently caught wild coral, or stops one respectable newb from buying a recently wild caught colony and then cytting it up to sell them for a ton per polyp because the may now understand the difference between aquacultured and wild(which I want into very briefly yet directly, then it has served its purpose.
agree completely about the networking. Its what makes this hobby fun. Besides, nobody in my family can truly appreciate my blood sweat and tears. They just think Im possessed but you people can and do.
I honestly dont mind the names. I kind of like them. As I said before, a simple trendy riciculous name can take the place of a paragraph of real descriptive terminology, especially in concern to polyps. We dont have hundreds of species of acropora and montipora to misidentify in our descriptions. We have just a handful of species that only the most knowledgable of hobbyists can even recognize, so its all about variants, and among reputable people a picture isnt even needed, just give me that ridiculous name and I know exactly what you are talking about. ship it
I mean do you want to trade me for some of my my zoanthus gigantus that have a dark purple and blue face that is covered in a kaleidescope of faded neon turquoise overlapped by a galaxy of the same neon turquoise with pink and purple accents on the outer edge of the face and skirts........or simply put. "Want any billy clubs"??
I am a trendy coral whore, but its becasue as a rule, they are expensive for a reason. They are gorgeous and a cut above.
"truely transhipped".
I will be borrowing that
I like the descriptive part you wrote.
You made that sound really cool.
...not that my previous post was my point Flyyyguy. Initially i was going to post that i agree with your paragraph below (and then your great description distracted me);
Initially i was going to post that i agree with your paragraph below (and then your great description distracted me);I agree.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15020062#post15020062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flyyyguy
I honestly dont mind the names. I kind of like them. As I said before, a simple trendy riciculous name can take the place of a paragraph of real descriptive terminology, especially in concern to polyps. We dont have hundreds of species of acropora and montipora to misidentify in our descriptions. We have just a handful of species that only the most knowledgable of hobbyists can even recognize, so its all about variants, and among reputable people a picture isnt even needed. ship it
ZURCSREEF
In Memoriam
I think people should look at the coral, if its what they want buy it. Name shouldn't make a difference.
What I think is ridiculous is this scenario;
I have the same exact coral as Steve Tyree... He is selling it for $150 / frag and I am selling it for $50, the person is going to buy it directly from Steve Tyree instead just because it is Steve Tyree...
Just because he has it doesn't mean someone else doesn't already have it, He just has the capability of naming a coral and selling it for really high prices.
Now I am not saying don't go buy directly from steve tyree, as I have quite a few pieces from him, well through some of the distributors.
In simple...
If you like it and you don't mind the price, buy the coral, not the name.
What I think is ridiculous is this scenario;
I have the same exact coral as Steve Tyree... He is selling it for $150 / frag and I am selling it for $50, the person is going to buy it directly from Steve Tyree instead just because it is Steve Tyree...
Just because he has it doesn't mean someone else doesn't already have it, He just has the capability of naming a coral and selling it for really high prices.
Now I am not saying don't go buy directly from steve tyree, as I have quite a few pieces from him, well through some of the distributors.
In simple...
If you like it and you don't mind the price, buy the coral, not the name.
I think the name game is quite different in concern to polyps vs sps. There is much less leeway in sps for less than honest people to portray their corals as something they arent, as well as whether or not it comes from the exact same colony as the original coral that became famous and or commonly recognized, is much less important as far as if it is the "real deal" or not, and what its potential in your tank can be
not sure why exactly this is, or why I perceive it to be that way. It surely seems that it isnt every day you can pick up a unnamed acro that is truly a knockout that is exactly the same or resembles on of the well knowns, but that isnt true IME on polyps. New ones come in all the time that are exactly the same, or very similar to well known knockouts, which is why a polyp name, if used solely for ID purposes and not marketing or upselling, can be used to accurately describe several clearly different polyps
as I already said, in the polyp collecting world we dont have hundreds of species of acropora and montipora to MISidentify in our verbal descriptions
jmho
not sure why exactly this is, or why I perceive it to be that way. It surely seems that it isnt every day you can pick up a unnamed acro that is truly a knockout that is exactly the same or resembles on of the well knowns, but that isnt true IME on polyps. New ones come in all the time that are exactly the same, or very similar to well known knockouts, which is why a polyp name, if used solely for ID purposes and not marketing or upselling, can be used to accurately describe several clearly different polyps
as I already said, in the polyp collecting world we dont have hundreds of species of acropora and montipora to MISidentify in our verbal descriptions
jmho
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oddballs
In Memoriam
Yes but there are a lot of rc users that have that exact mentality!
They tell other rc users to check the lineage on that d.maul chalice they are thinking of buying because me and 4 other guys got one from whodinni and that was the only colony of this braught in from the ocean!!! Give me a break!
They tell other rc users to check the lineage on that d.maul chalice they are thinking of buying because me and 4 other guys got one from whodinni and that was the only colony of this braught in from the ocean!!! Give me a break!
The problem with "true" is that identity doesn't begin when the people who cherry pic the shipments slap a name on it. It begins in the wild. It is convenient to be annoyed only at those selling the identicle coral minus the linneage if you are a collector of linneaged pieces. But the agenda of those selling such pieces is equaled by that of those pushing the misconception that the only way to have the same coral is if a coral can be traced back to the "namer". If the same coral happens to arrive in subsequent shipments that don't travel through the hands of the "namer", then the resale value and presumed rareity of the coral declines. Essentially the linneaged coral becomes less special. And this happens without the namer/linneage collector getting his cut of credit and profit.
Rarely will somone admit that the predominant reason to own a linneaged coral vs indenticle non linneaged coral is resale value. Instead you find dialogues that errode into denials that identicle corals exist via the scrutinization of macro pics and the ellicit use of qualitative terms like "brightness" and "pop" that can somehow only be judged properly by the "namer" or somone who has a verifiable, linneaged piece. If you weren't in the hobby and stumbled across some of these threads you'd think we all went to grad school for marine biology and wrote dissertations on coral morphology. Then you'd look at our profiles and find out nah, the guy who named it is an electrician who's cousin is a wholesaler, the guy with the linneaged piece is an IT manager and the guy with the lookalike owns a small business.
Rarely will somone admit that the predominant reason to own a linneaged coral vs indenticle non linneaged coral is resale value. Instead you find dialogues that errode into denials that identicle corals exist via the scrutinization of macro pics and the ellicit use of qualitative terms like "brightness" and "pop" that can somehow only be judged properly by the "namer" or somone who has a verifiable, linneaged piece. If you weren't in the hobby and stumbled across some of these threads you'd think we all went to grad school for marine biology and wrote dissertations on coral morphology. Then you'd look at our profiles and find out nah, the guy who named it is an electrician who's cousin is a wholesaler, the guy with the linneaged piece is an IT manager and the guy with the lookalike owns a small business.
SIR PATRICK
New member
I agree flyyyguy.
I have 3 different pink palys. They all looked like different named zoas when I baught them. Can I call them true- insert names here- palys? Even if they look identical to pics I see online?
Nope.....After being in my tank for long enough, they all look the same now. They all look great, but not the named polyps they were originally in the tank conditions I got them from. They look like another named polyp now. Only one has kept it look, and that could change at any time, I am sure.
I have 3 different pink palys. They all looked like different named zoas when I baught them. Can I call them true- insert names here- palys? Even if they look identical to pics I see online?
Nope.....After being in my tank for long enough, they all look the same now. They all look great, but not the named polyps they were originally in the tank conditions I got them from. They look like another named polyp now. Only one has kept it look, and that could change at any time, I am sure.
SIR PATRICK
New member
Sorry freed-
In the zoanthid world, what looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck could be an eagle or a turkey buzzard under the right or wrong conditions.
Doesnt always mean its a duck.
A "true" duck with liniage, even if it no longer looks like the same duck from years ago- that could be labled as a true duck, whether it looks or quacks like one still.
Without the liniage, from reputable sources, "true" is just a tool used for selling/hyping corals.
In the zoanthid world, what looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck could be an eagle or a turkey buzzard under the right or wrong conditions.
Doesnt always mean its a duck.
A "true" duck with liniage, even if it no longer looks like the same duck from years ago- that could be labled as a true duck, whether it looks or quacks like one still.
Without the liniage, from reputable sources, "true" is just a tool used for selling/hyping corals.
goldmaniac
New member
I've been waiting for someone to say something fresh, as this argument has been out there and repeated SO many times.
Some good points, and all opinions are valid, but nothing new.
The names are good as descriptions, but that does not qualify a price, as polyps change and morph over time and in different environments. Period.
If you want to pay top $$ for Darth Mauls, go right ahead. Nothing wrong with that at all. Buy what you like.
But if they morph in your tank and then look different, you can't claim them as Darth Mauls anymore. They're a morph of Darth Mauls, at best. If they start to resemble a different "name", then you should call them as such.
If you bought from Tubbs Blues from Tubbs himself, or can trace lineage back to him, wonderful. But if they morph into something that is closer to Spidermans, then you should call them Spidermans for description's sake.
If you don't, and you try to sell them, then you're just interested in the money and not interested in keeping the integrity of the hobby.
\\Tubbs blues are an exception, I think, because they are known to keep their look and color, so morphing is less common. I believe this is a [legitimate] major factor in their high price.
Basically, in my opinion, since polyps morph, the names aren't any guarantee at all. They're just a current description that makes it easier for reefers to communicate what they are.
thank you for listening.
Some good points, and all opinions are valid, but nothing new.
The names are good as descriptions, but that does not qualify a price, as polyps change and morph over time and in different environments. Period.
If you want to pay top $$ for Darth Mauls, go right ahead. Nothing wrong with that at all. Buy what you like.
But if they morph in your tank and then look different, you can't claim them as Darth Mauls anymore. They're a morph of Darth Mauls, at best. If they start to resemble a different "name", then you should call them as such.
If you bought from Tubbs Blues from Tubbs himself, or can trace lineage back to him, wonderful. But if they morph into something that is closer to Spidermans, then you should call them Spidermans for description's sake.
If you don't, and you try to sell them, then you're just interested in the money and not interested in keeping the integrity of the hobby.
\\Tubbs blues are an exception, I think, because they are known to keep their look and color, so morphing is less common. I believe this is a [legitimate] major factor in their high price.
Basically, in my opinion, since polyps morph, the names aren't any guarantee at all. They're just a current description that makes it easier for reefers to communicate what they are.
thank you for listening.
XSharkboyX
Wishin' I Was Fishin'
I personally love this forum and commend all who are standing up for what they believe in!
Its about time someone spoke up for what it right!
I find myself getting angry when I look at where this hobby is going...
I remember a day (NOT THAT LONG AGO) when I could walk into any given fish store and pay $30-$45 for a COLONY of very nice zoanthids or palythoas...
Now they all are frags, have "True" names, and are priced per polyp...
A friend recently told me something that sums up my thoughts on this topic as well... "Its no longer about reefing... Its about peoples greed for money!"
Its about time someone spoke up for what it right!
I find myself getting angry when I look at where this hobby is going...
I remember a day (NOT THAT LONG AGO) when I could walk into any given fish store and pay $30-$45 for a COLONY of very nice zoanthids or palythoas...
Now they all are frags, have "True" names, and are priced per polyp...
A friend recently told me something that sums up my thoughts on this topic as well... "Its no longer about reefing... Its about peoples greed for money!"
respectfullly very much disagree with this statement
just becasue it environmetnally morphs some does not make it a new a new and unique polyp deserving of a new and unique name, it makes it the same old polyp that it ever was, and in ideal tank conditions, it will always look more or less the same, or very similar, and giving it a new unique name, just completely undermines the name game in the first place, and does nothing but confuse things
a similar morph to darth mauls, would be a clearly different polyp, yet one that is not so differently unique that it is deserving of a new and unique name
jmho
goldmaniac
New member
I think we're talking about two different points, and sometimes i'm not clear. Here's a fictional example of what I'm talking about..
I buy an AOG frag and put it in my tank. It changes to look more like Eye of Rah zoas. Now, when you're talking about the frag to someone, In My Opinion, you should refer to it as a variant of Eye of Rah instead of AOG or an AOG morph. Only if it totally morphs into what you'd call "dead ringer" of Eye of Rahs should you then call them Eye of Rahs, no morph precurser.
I'm not saying that a change or morph in your tank qualifies for a new name. It's my opinion that the names should be used as tools in describing a polyp. if you REALLY, TRULY can't find anything named that even resembles what you have, go ahead and name it, if it is truly unique. You better snap a few pictures of it, then, so others can see what it's called and don't call you out on renaming a morph of something else.
Flyy, I appreciate your civility in disagreeing with me. My opinion is only that, an opinion. I hope I'm speaking clearly to convey my point.
E.G.
