New setup with "pseudo substrate"

G-money

Premium Member
After much deliberation, I decided that sandbeds weren't giving me the results I wanted. After tearing down a 3-year old DSB tank last spring due to moving (smell about knocked me over) and having very poor results after 9 months with a shallow sandbed (fills up quicker IMO - less nutrient buffering), I decided to scrap the whole thing a few weeks ago and start anew. Thus begins my tale...

For starters, the tank is an AGA 120 viewable on 3 sides, with one overflow in the center of the wall side. There is a closed loop intake drilled on that same wall side and all returns come up and over the same side. Here's a pic of that side with all the plumbing:
1414Plumbing.JPG


All the pipes are 3/4" PVC connected to the closed loop (Sequence 750 @ 3800 GPH), save the second pipe from the bottom is the return from the sump (Mag 12, soon to be replaced by an Ocean Runner 6500).

The sump is a 40 gallon long with 4 partitions to keep them dang bubbles out! The skimmer is a Reef Mania beckett style skimmer rated for around 250 gallons. I'll attach a pic of the sump area once it's closer to done (and less messy).

Over the last year or so, I spent alot of time looking over the BB and then Starboard-type tanks out there as well as reading about the "less obvious" ways to deal with nutrient accumulation in the system (thanks to Bomber). While looking at these BB and Starboard setups, I found that old aesthetic preferences die hard and I couldn't see setting up a tank with a bare bottom - or a tank with a big piece of white plastic on the bottom . This is what led to some other disscussions about other options and downright crazy ideas...:D

I knew that if I didn't have something to protect the bottom glass, I'd drop a rock while aquascaping or something and have a real mess on my hands. I then decided to incorporate a Starboard-type base, but also find a way to include the traditional substrate look without having to deal with sandbed-type issues. After some trial and error, I ended up with a finished product that really pleased me:
1414New_substrate_5-1.JPG



I used Geo-marine crushed aragonite and PVC/ABS cement to affix the substrate to a piece of HDPE (high density polyethylene). It took a few runs and was a definite brain cell-killing event (even outside), but the results were what I was after. I had tried using Portland cement (best adhesion, but turned the sand grey) and silicone (don't bother) before someone suggested trying PVC cement. Although I was worried about possible leaching into the system (as with cement), I figured a month or two of an empty tank running with carbon and heavy skimming would remove most of any posible residual left from the process. I'm now on week 3 and here are a few closeups of the substrate (there is rock in the tank, but it hasn't been aquascaped)
Notice the Tunze Stream sitting right on the bottom - also notice that it's not blowing anything around.
1414Closeup_Tunze.JPG

A close-up of the front side:
1414Closeup_front.JPG


To tidy things up, I ran a thick bead of white silicone around the perimeter of the substrate board and affixed aragonite into it. As you can see above, the result is a mostly seamless pseudo substrate right up to the walls of the tank. There are a few small areas (about the size of a quarter) where the substrate didn't hold. I'm assuming that over time, the bottom is going to be pretty well covered in coralline (or coral) anyway.
 
A shot of the water movement from the top. I hope there's enough ;):
1414Top_long.JPG


Here is a pic of where the corals went right after the initial teardown:
1414After_removal.JPG


And here they are now in a 75 gallon for probably another month:
141475_Holding.JPG

So far, so good.

Since this is kind of a break from the norm type of setup, I figured I'd document it, so if the tank crashes, you won't do what I did. A couple folks had also requested it...otherwise I wouldn't waste your time. :)
Updates will come as they happen.
I hope some of you will find this interesting...
 
I had the same idea. I wanted to use some type of foam to mould slopes for a more natural look. I was going to use epoxy to hold the substrate down. It looks great and I dont see any reason why it should crash. I am definetly keepin an eye on this thread.
 
Very cool! I was considering this myself but too lazy.
The only potential problem could be detritus catching in the rough surface, but I am sure this can be resolved with all that flow you got.
 
wow that looks really good g-money! That's a great idea for all of the bare-bottomers out there. I think one reason some people won't go bare-bottom is because of the look. Here is the solution!Keep up updated on it...

btw, nice corals!
cordell
 
I like the idea. I am/ was comsidering using a textured concrete bottom in the next set up I build. I'll have to play with this idea too.
 
WOW, great idea, G-money... I am going to copy your process for my new 90g reef... Like you, I find that my old aesthetic preferences die hard, and I love this idea. Kudos to you for sharing and with such great pics!

I am assuming once the cement cures, it should be reef safe... I mean people have been using PVC cement for their plumping for decades without problems, and I know I have gotten plenty of excess in the interior of pipes...!

Can you give me a little more specifics about the processââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âlike how thick of a layer of cement did you use? You seem to have gotten such a wonderful thick layer of the aragonite... Did you just press the aragonite into the cement in excess and then shake off the excess? That is how I envision it being done...?

What was the reason for using silicon (which I thought didn't hold well) around the perimeter of the substrate board? Why couldn't you use the cement here as well..?

Thanks again for the great idea...!

Todd
 
I was also thinking about doing something like this, but it's not critical for me to have the look of substrate so I'll probably refrain. It does look good though. If it weren't so completely flat it would look more natural, but it does look good and is a great alternative for those who don't want a sandbed but do want the look. Good job.
 
I like it! Looks much better than starboard... not as artificial. I wonder if there is an easy way to give it more contour? Keep us updated on your progress!
 
Just an idea, if you want it to be contoured just glue 1 pieces on top of each other then sand out the dips and rolls as you wish.
You can slope it in the front just enough so you can't see the HDPE.
 
I think another way to add contour would be by using Great Stuff or some kind of foam filler type product. I don't know how well the cement would hold to it, though. I know mine doesn't look like a natural sandbed, but it's a pretty close second. As long as I'm happy, eh? ;)


Todd,

What was the reason for using silicon (which I thought didn't hold well) around the perimeter of the substrate board? Why couldn't you use the cement here as well..?
The board is 1/2" thick. With such a deep area to cover, the PVC cement wouldn't have cut it. The main reason for using silicone was so that nothing can get under the board. When I mentioned it didn't hold well, it was mostly due to the thin layer I used on the board. A real thick layer would probably work much better, as you could really press the aragonite into it. For my 120 gallon tank, that would've taken about 20 tubes of silicone and many hours of messy application. :) I think it would work well, though if you went with at least a 1/4" layer of silicone.
The cement doesn't have to go on too thick...it's hard to say, but obviously the more the better. As I mentioned above (I think), there are a few small bare areas, but they can be easily concealed with corals :). I'm sure over time, there will be some wear and tear, but I'm thinking that because the sand can't be moved, it will be encrusted by various things (which also may add a degree of fixation I hadn't thought of until now). :D

Another reason I didn't want dips and rolls is because I wanted to minimize contour so that detritus would be less apt to accumulate in the "dips". I plan on elevating most of my base rock off the substrate with 1" pieces of 1.5" PVC. We'll see how it goes. I'm thinking that once it's stocked and growing out, you won't even notice the flatness of the bottom....actually, I'll be happy if that's someone's only "complaint". ;)

I was hoping to aquascape by the weekend, but I want to have my "old" rock available as well to see what fits/works best. I'm re-curing it and it's not quite ready, so probably no real updates until early June.
 
G-money,
That is a good idea you have there, only thing to consider is that there is a good chance that your "natural" looking substrate due to its static nature will become pink in time as the coralline grows over it. Had you considered this, and are you going to leave it and let it turn pink, or are you going to keep it coralline free?
 
good stuff man!! glad i saw this thread over at TCMAS board. hope to see this tank someday. can you say FLOW!!!

Lunchbucket
 
Re: New setup with "pseudo substrate"

massman,
G-money said:
I'm assuming that over time, the bottom is going to be pretty well covered in coralline (or coral) anyway.

Yes, I thought of that ;). I'm not too concerned. Real reefs exist on coralline substrates (albeit, not flat as a pancake!) I'll have to see how it looks, but a pink and purple coralline bottom is better than the box of chocolates that is a DSB :).


Bomber,
You're my hero :p......;)


Lunchbucket,
Fo' sho'!
Love to have you drop by once the tank is "something"...
 
That would be an interesting exercise in any case: Scraping coralline algae off of a fixed substrate of crushed coral :lol:
 
awsome idea i love the bb idea and all its advantages, but not to found of the look. this is like the best of both worlds. i am seriously considering this for my next set-up. awsome work, keep up the good work.
 
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