New tank, snails have died and corals not doing great.

[Astroreefer]

Evening,

I'm setting up a new 9 Gallon reef tank and am already having trouble with it. The livestock is 5 turbo snails, mushroom coral (discosoma), Zoanthids and a Duncan coral. So far, 4 of the snails have died, the Zoanthids aren't fully extended and the Duncan is closed up.

Today is day two since being wet. The tank was set up using dry rock and secured together using expanding foam, I decided to use expanding after seeing a lot of people have used it in their own aquariums without any adverse affects. I let it cure for 48 hours like others had. I have used alittle sand from my 55 Gallon tank to seed this tank. Temperature, pH and Salinity are all stable.

On the first day, everything was doing fine and seem happy. However, I found the turbos seemed to go straight to the pump I have in there to circulate the water until my powerhead comes in the post.

Since everything seemed fine on the first day and then suddenly turn today, I am thinking that either the rock or the foam is leaching something into the water, but I wanted some other opinions on what it could be and what I should to in the mean time?

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I have just smelt the water and it has a distinct smell

 

[mcgyvr]

Yep.. You messed up..
Saltwater tanks "in general" need a few weeks to "cycle" before ANYTHING is added to them and to ensure that the system can process ammonia (which is highly toxic to fish/snails/corals,etc..)

You killed them with the ammonia which is a basically a byproduct of food/poop,etc.. The first step of decomposition/breakdown of food/poop,etc.. is ammonia which is then turned into nitrites then nitrates..
If your tank is not properly cycled that ammonia will kill.. And your tank is proof of that..

Time to start over again and do it right by learning before jumping in..
Expensive mistake to make..
Sorry..

 

[mcgyvr]

This forum has TONS of information in the "newbies" section that you should be reading/learning..
While its really kind of a mess and needs a massive overhaul there is TONS of good information there.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

 

[sde1500]

Yea, you entirely skipped cycling the tank. Those snails and corals will probably all be dead soon. Also, that's probably more snails than you need for that small of a tank. Def follow that link that mcgyvr gave and read up, ton of stuff to help in there. As for what to do now, can't say there really is anything you can do. Cycle has started since things are dying off in the tank. You could probably pull the corals to try and save them.

 

[JZinCO]

Evening,

I'm setting up a new 9 Gallon reef tank and am already having trouble with it. The livestock is 5 turbo snails, mushroom coral (discosoma), Zoanthids and a Duncan coral. So far, 4 of the snails have died, the Zoanthids aren't fully extended and the Duncan is closed up.

Today is day two since being wet. The tank was set up using dry rock and secured together using expanding foam, I decided to use expanding after seeing a lot of people have used it in their own aquariums without any adverse affects. I let it cure for 48 hours like others had. I have used alittle sand from my 55 Gallon tank to seed this tank. Temperature, pH and Salinity are all stable.

On the first day, everything was doing fine and seem happy. However, I found the turbos seemed to go straight to the pump I have in there to circulate the water until my powerhead comes in the post.

Since everything seemed fine on the first day and then suddenly turn today, I am thinking that either the rock or the foam is leaching something into the water, but I wanted some other opinions on what it could be and what I should to in the mean time?

Sent from my LG-H955 using Tapatalk


I have just smelt the water and it has a distinct smell

You should have waited to cycle.

That said, I made some rock formations and followed standard procedures for curing, rinsed the final reef wall creation, and still had water toxic to fish. I had used Great Stuff 'fish-safe' foam and acrylic glue. I think some foreign chemical got into the water from either my adhesives or from elsewhere. I recommend draining, drying to see if more curing of adhesives are needed, and some intense cleaning. Assume your sand and rock sucked up some chemical and give them a good rinsing.

Then, when you are good to go, be patient and cycle.

 

[Astroreefer]

Thanks for the reply.

I did not think the bioload off a couple corals and 5 snails would be great enough to cause ammonia to build up to toxic levels overnight. I should buy a test kit tomorrow and test for it, I've not needed one for a long time. Thanks for the suggestion, can anyone think of anything else that would cause this other than ammonia?

I will do a water change now, add some LR from my other tank and some Seachem Denitrate to a filter, it claims to reduce ammonia, has anyone any experience with that?

Thanks

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I just wanted to add, when I went to remove the snail I noticed that they retracted back into their shells when I touched them, so they are not dead, just very weak. I have placed them into another container and shall do a few very small water changes to reduce what ever is killing them

 

[KMS.Kyle]

You should honestly take out anything living from that tank and return it to your LFS for a credit... Try to save them and then cycle.

PS - And yes, it will reduce ammonia.. But even the SMALLEST SMALLEST amount is toxic to your livestock.

 

[slief]

Aside from the ammonia and the fact that you are cycling your tank with invertebrates which isn't a good idea, you didn't mention what kind of foam you used. Some expanding foam can be toxic. You also didn't mention what kind of water you are using. Tap water can be very toxic due to chlorine, chloramines and other nasty stuff in the water. If you are using tap water to make salt water, that could be part of your issue. You didn't mention water temp either. Anyhow, it takes a month to get through the first cycle which is just the first of many on the way to a tank becoming fully mature. To be successful in this hobby, you need to be patient and follow some basic rules. Go slow, cycle the tank properly before adding livestock such as invertebrates. This includes snails. Use good quality water. This is an absolute must. My suggestion is for you to read the threads in the new to the hobby forum here. In particular, the thread that Mcgyvr linked to above.

 

[johnike]

Why didn't you just use 5 gallons from your 55 and 4 gallons new?
Would have just been like doing a big water change.

 

[Astroreefer]

I shall remove livestock and place them in my 55. Something interesting to note is whilst I was making some new saltwater, 3 of the snails seem to have perked up just from being removed from the tank and nothing else. They have attached to the sides of the container and moving about.

Temperature is 26.4°c, and has been hovering between 26.2 and 26.8.

I only use RO/DI water and Instant Ocean salt at 1.026 SG.



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Sorry for so many updates, but all the snails have perked up.

 

[Reefes pieces]

even rocks and sand will have some decaying material on it. Do you have any pieces of rubble rock on your 55g tank you can throw into the new one? This will help with the cycling process but even still won't guarantee an instant cycle. Glad you caught it quick and that some of the snails survived

 

[sminker]

Patience young grasshopper.

 

[Astroreefer]

I used some sand from my 55 to seed this tank. I have used this method several times before to achieve instant cycles on other tanks without hiccup. I am acclimating some live rock with Xenia on it as we speak. I shall see how the Xenia reacts to the water

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[JC Slater]

Hey I have a question and sorry to hijack this thread but I feel it correlates with this discussion and it pertains to the OP.

In theory (Ive never done this, hence the question) could you pull out some live rock, say 10 lbs in the OP case from his existing cycled 55, put it into a "new" tank, take some sand from the 55, seed "new" sand with it in the new tank, then like johnike mentions, take 5-6 gallons of the water from the 55, put it into the new tank and then fill with new saltwater? Isnt this essentially transferring an old tank to a "new" tank and the only difference is some new dry sand, some new fresh saltwater and glass/acrylic?

Would that work and what are the potential impacts to livestock?

 

[Reefes pieces]

It can but no guarantees. I've done that with live rock and throwing it into a QT tank and it remained cycled. But it will always depend especially with what kind of bioload you're putting on the new system.

 

[sde1500]

Hey I have a question and sorry to hijack this thread but I feel it correlates with this discussion and it pertains to the OP.

In theory (Ive never done this, hence the question) could you pull out some live rock, say 10 lbs in the OP case from his existing cycled 55, put it into a "new" tank, take some sand from the 55, seed "new" sand with it in the new tank, then like johnike mentions, take 5-6 gallons of the water from the 55, put it into the new tank and then fill with new saltwater? Isnt this essentially transferring an old tank to a "new" tank and the only difference is some new dry sand, some new fresh saltwater and glass/acrylic?

Would that work and what are the potential impacts to livestock?

Yes this should work. Wouldn't hurt to test levels just to be sure anyway, but if the rock really isn't out of water all that long, die off should be very minimal.

But a little sand probably wasn't enough to seed the tank well enough to handle the immediate load.

 

[JC Slater]

Thanks reefes pieces (lol great name) and sde1500.

 

[Sk8r]

Corals survive ammonia better than fish or inverts do, but they don't like it. Everything alive could live in a regular bare tank without sand or rock, just filter and every few days filter changes and water changes. There is nothing WRONG with pure good salt water. TO do daily filter changes, pillow floss from a sewing goods store works as well as aquarium floss and is a lot cheaper. Wrap a spoonful of carbon in same and tuck it into an air-driven filter. Most coral will also die, incidentally, if it doesn't have reef-capable lighting.

 

[Astroreefer]

This is why I am slightly sceptical this is a result of ammonia poisoning. The tank is 2 days old, with fresh saltwater and seeded with sand from an existing tank. Corals, inverts and fish can survive a couple days in a bag whilst being shipped with 100x less water volume than this tank and come out only a bit worse for wear. I do not think 5 snails would produce enough ammonia in less than 2 days to cause this much damage. Unfortunately I cannot test this without a test kit.

I would try adding more live rock from my established tank, but there is simply no more room in this tank even if it's temporary, the tank is full of rock. The tank is tall cylindrical with a central column of rock. The little rock I have managed to squeeze in from my other tank and Seachem Denitrate should be able to process any ammonia present

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[Sk8r]

The only way to know how much ammonia is via tests, with precise numbers. As for what could decay to cause this---the entire sandbed and rock bacteria can crash and die, causing ammonia, a cascade of badness that can turn a whole tank into toxic soup. It's worth remembering that fish and inverts can die with just a little ammonia, but tolerate nitrates through the roof. Conversely, corals can start dying because of nitrate levels, but tolerate ammonia that will kill a fish. The next thing to know is that death from ammonia, if a fish, tends to follow several days after exposure, due to kidney failure.

You are correct that, given the circumstances you describe, a big ammonia spike would be a 'why?' and 'how?' Sometimes rock contains animals like burrowing clams that, if they demise, can be a problem in a tank without sufficient bacterial forces to process it. And sometimes manmade or non-aquarium rock can contain things that cause chemical problems. Good aquarium rock is conditioned limestone, preferably very holey limestone, which provides the calcium the tank will be using routinely---not enough, but some, and at least chemically 'friendly' to the marine environment.