notorious clam disease??? PLEASE HELP!!

[wjgeese]

Just curious as to the symptoms of the clam disease that has reportedly
wiped out people's collections.
I seem to have something going through my tank that is knocking off my clams one by one...
It started with a 4" squamosa...fine for month or so, growing etc, then it seemed to get that 'pinched' looked as if somthing was picking at it (when nothing could be id'd). Over two to three weeks it kept pulling farther and farther away from the shell until it finally died. Then a week or two later a small 1" max started to do the same thing. Now my 8" squamosa is on it's last leg (same symptoms), and it looks like another squam is starting to look suspicious. Is this the 'clam disease' that everyone's been having problems with? If so...what can I do? I just got an 11" gigas clam that i absolutely must not lose!! Please help! thanks in advance.

Bill

 

[holeinone1972]

It sure does sound that way. Do your clams seem to be coughing? Is there mucas coming out of the clams?

I am hoping for the best for you. Rob
'

 

[JT]

It sure does sound that way.

So you guys are going to start blaming the infamous clam disease on every unexplained string of clam deaths? Is this going to be the next version of RTN already often mis-reported in the SPS world?

I have mixed thoughts about Bill's problem. Bill's problems seem to be taking a slower course than other reports I have heard of from other people.

Bill, what has changed with your tank over the course of the past month?

 

[_ShotgunShrimp_]

sounds an awfull lot like

sounds an awfull lot like

sounds just like what happend to my crocea's b4 i had the chiller and the tank got to warm.. one clam died within 2 weeks of the overheating event the other took almost a month to die both died in the same fashion you are refering to.... did you have any heat issues?

 

[wjgeese]

re: JT
I'm not jumping to premature conclusions that my clam has the very same illness that other's have witnessed. I'm just trying to research the symptoms that others have seen. Its more than likely something different as it appears to kill the clam much more slowly.

I've tried to look up info on mysterious clam deaths here at reef central but havent found any relevent threads. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

other than the following info, nothing significant has changed in my tank in the past 6 months.

additions (clams) to tank in the past 6 months:
June '02 - 8" squamosa and 1" maxima
July '02 - 5" gigas clam (died after 1 month, conch fell into it and killed it instantly)...that was one tough day
August '02 - 4 x 3" gigas clams + 4" squamosa
Oct '02 - 11" gigas

all clams growing fine etc, except for the following:

Early August - 4" squamosa that I've had for 3 wks (and had been growing) appears pinched in some places and looks worse (pulling away from edge of shell) over next few weeks, during which time a 1" maxima exhibits the same problems. By the end of August into the first week or two in Sept, the max and squamosa are dead.

About the same time to a week or so after getting the big gigas clam, the 8" squamosa appears pinched in some places and as of today looks like a goner (pulled way back from shell...looks dead, just doesnt know it yet)...and a 6" derasa that I've had for 1.5 yrs looks odd (mantle looks 'curly' on the edges and looking a little pinched in one place).

I'll see if I can get some pics this w/e to help in the id'ing of this problem.

Thanks all...

Very unfortunately, I will be away on vacation in FL next tuesday until the following monday and I dont want to leave the squamosa in and only have it pollute the tank if it dies....I just hope something miraculous happens in the next several days (but not holding my breath on that one!)

One odd thing that I had noted that I havent really noticed before, but never really had a problem with before either...I have noticed a lot of brislte worms on the bottom of my clams recently. I've been picking them off and discarding them on a daily basis. Dont know if that is the problem, but cant bee too cautious at this point. Usually, on the average of 2-5 bristle worms per 3 days (not big, maybe 2-3 cm).

ANy thoughts?
I've been keeping reef tanks now for 12 yrs and have never seen this problem before. It's very frustrating and makes me apprehensive every time i look at my tank.

Thanks,
bill

The first clam that exhibited this illness died (after 3wks or so) at the end of August.

 

[JT]

I'm not jumping to premature conclusions that my clam has the very same illness that other's have witnessed.

Bill, never meant that YOU are jumping to conclusions. Was merely pointing out, thanks to Rob's rather quick response, that whenever something bad happens to clams lately everyone seems to blame this so-called 'clam disease' first and asks questions later.

One odd thing that I had noted that I havent really noticed before, but never really had a problem with before either...I have noticed a lot of brislte worms on the bottom of my clams recently. I've been picking them off and discarding them on a daily basis. Dont know if that is the problem, but cant bee too cautious at this point. Usually, on the average of 2-5 bristle worms per 3 days (not big, maybe 2-3 cm).

From everything you have said so far, it sounds as though some type of parasite has been irritating the clams and this last statement of yours pretty much drives it home.

 

[peterlin98]

Would dipping clams in fresh water help? Would dipping kill worms?

 

[JT]

Would dipping clams in fresh water help? Would dipping kill worms?

I don't think so Peter, Freshwater dipping is often more stressful to the specimen you are dipping than to the organism you are trying to get rid of.

 

[holeinone1972]

Bill, never meant that YOU are jumping to conclusions. Was merely pointing out, thanks to Rob's rather quick response, that whenever something bad happens to clams lately everyone seems to blame this so-called 'clam disease' first and asks questions later.

JT when a person who has been keeping clams apparently without much incident, and then all of the sudden clam after clam dies, yes I attribute this to something out of the ordinary.

I also asked right afterwards if they have shown, what seems to be the normal symptoms, coughing and mucas spitting?

Bill, why don't you give us a rundown, of your tank parameters. Ph, calcium, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temp, salinity.

Since 99% of bristleworms, are scavengers I think the only reason they may appear to be a problem, is that if the clams are going downhill the bristleworms are simply sniffing out dying tissue and are getting ready to clean up.

Have you seen any pyramid snails?

 

[JT]

JT when a person who has been keeping clams apparently without much incident, and then all of the sudden clam after clam dies, yes I attribute this to something out of the ordinary.

Rob, you are not reading all of the facts clearly here. Bill isn't losing "clam after clam" suddenly. It is happening slowly over the course of a couple months. The 'clam disease' label does not apply in this situation as those deaths happen over the course of 24 to 48 hours and usually take all clams at once, not one at a time.

Let's look at the timeline as stated by Bill:

August/Early Sept.: First two losses, one is a Squamosa and the other a 1" Maxima. Well, 1" Maxima are always difficult to keep in captivity as you know. The Squamosa had only been in his tank for 3 weeks.

Now we move on to today without any other clam deaths. A Squamosa is on it's last leg and a derasa appears to be bothered by something.

In all cases, the mantles are pinched back as if some kind of parasite or critter is bothering them.

Since the start of this 'clam disease' issue, people, not just yourself, have blindly thrown the statement around when they have deaths they can't explain. This is causing more paranoia than anything else. If Bill had lost more clams, at a more rapid pace, I would agree with you. However, look at the timeline above.

Bill, I'm not trying to discourage you and I feel for you during these frustrating times. Please give us some more details about your paramaters and anything else you can think of.

 

[holeinone1972]

JT,

I think you may be on a better track than me. I did not read the timing correctly.

I defiantely agree that people should not be buying these tiny clams. They are tough to keep, most farms do not like to sell these at such small sizes, as it gets harder and harder to provide the larger more valuable sizes to importers.

Bill have you been to church lately? J/K

Shoot out those parameters when you get a chance.

JT thanks for setting me straight with the timeline.

 

[wjgeese]

I know the tiny clams are very difficult to keep, but this one was a gift from Jim Norris when I purchased the big squam. The max had been growing fine during the month or so that I had him.

I would concur that the symptoms do appear to be the result of some predator rather than due to disease, however I have failed to find any obvious predators. In the past I have often found bristle worms on the bottoms of clams with no apparent ill effects. It is very frustrating.

tank size 40 gal breeder (yes, I know what are you keeping all those clams in such a small tank for??!!)--it is a temporary tank until my wife and I buy our new house in the spring (we're just in an apt right now).

1) lighting - 400 W iwasaki (10 hr/day) + 2 x 110W actinics (12 hr/day)
2) temp - 80 +/- 2 degree differential
3) pH 8.1 high 7.9 low (running a geo dual calcium reactor)
4) also dosing 1/2 gal kalkwasser/night
5) ca++ = 450 ppm
6) alk = 12 dkh
7) phosphate, undetectable
8) nitrate, undetectable
9) sg = 1.023
10) feed dt's every other day (at night)
11) skimming with predator skimmer 24x7
12) closed loop circ = mak4 (via seaswirl)
13) recir = mak 4
14) 2 hagen 802 powerheads on wavemaker
15) no, clams are being bothered by excess current (the current is strategically placed s/t only the very center of the tank (where all my acros are) gets all the pounding
16) one six line wrasse
17) one true percula clown
18) anything else?

this is why the problem is so frustrating..no obvious culprits!!

any thoughts anyone?

Thanks again,
Bill

 

[Frisco]

OMG - You have how many gigas in a 40 gal?! :eek2:

 

[wjgeese]

I have 4 small (3-4") gigas
and one 11" gigas.

Yeah, I love those gigas clams!
As I indicated above they are only in the 40 temporarily. I will be setting up a 240 gal once I move (in the spring).

Not cramped yet, but boy do they grow quickly!

 

[traveller7]

Bill,

Is that 7.9 pH right before the lights come on or could it possibly be dropping even lower at night, even with the nighttime kalk?

Regarding the little maxima, 2 of the 4 I have had died prior to me feeding them DT's directly ( in a bowl of tank water). The timeframe you've given for that specimen could be related to starvation? In a tank that size you may have some of your more efficient species filtering most of the food, absorbing the nutrients, etc.

My tanks are loaded with bristleworms and clams without the symptoms you are describing.

Sure sounds like an irritant. Any chance of metals in the source water or something? A bad RO membrane, etc.?

Hope is sorts out soon for you.

Scott

 

[wjgeese]

update...
Well, went on vacation with a tank sitter watching the tank. And thankfully, nothing bad happened while I was gone. Since my last post nothing has changed significantly, except that one of the affected squam's actually is looking better
The other big squam, unfortunately, looks the same-worse I just dont have the heart to yank him out yet.
The affected derasa looks the same.
Everything else looks fine (evidence of growth etc.)....dont want to say anymore than this for fear of jinxing myself!

Thanks all for the concern,
Bill

I'll keep posting periodically.

I really does look like an irritant, but havent id'd the culprit yet. Like I said, it might be bristleworms, but I've never had that problem in the past 15 years of keeping reef tanks/clams.

Keep those fingers crossed!

Thanks again!

 

[Jayson]

I can see a couple of problems with your system. the first one is that clams need lots of food. Not just DT's. They use quite alot of nitrate. I would suggest that you start to add some high quality sodium nitrate to your system. You will want to keep your nitrate levels around 5ppm. Iodine is also very important when housing that many clams. The next thing that you will want to do is do 10%water changes per day for 5 days when ever you have a clam die in your system. When clams die in your tank they release some very noxious toxins. I currently house any where from 25-100 clams in my 75 gallon clam for sale tank, and they will consume on average 10ppm of nitrate per day and .001 of iodine. I have seen they effects of mysterious clam deaths at clam farms in Indo and this is what they reccomend. I hope this helps

 

[rxx2]

Hello Jayson, where do you get your sodium nitrate?
Thanks

 

[Jayson]

I am up in Canada so I buy it from a lab company locally. I would look at Fisher Scientific. I think that they have a web site. They are a US based company. Buy the powdered form not the granuals. Hope this helps.