Oh no! Its an Undergravel!

I really enjoy your questions. Never accept what others say as gosple. One of the things to consider with this type of filter is the accumulation of organic matter. I don't know if your setting up a reef tank, FO or mixed, but what we all try to do in one way or another is remove organic matter from the tank. There are legions of thought on what is the best way to do this. This is paramount in your endevor in this hobby as organics trapped in the tank is often the death of these most beautiful creatures whether fish, coral or whatever. Many of us who have been in the hobby for many years started out with UGFs becuase at the time they were what seemed to work. This was fine for fish such as clowns, damsels, etc. Today we have such a huge assortment available to us it is increadable. Unfortunately many of these creatures will not live in less than near perfect conditions. I can't begin to tell you how many fish, corals I've lost becuase I didn't spend the $$$ to buy the right equipment. It would definitely help to know what type of tank your looking to set up, FO, reef, etc. The other issue to consider is what works for one may not work for another. You could have a reef tank with this type of filter and have more success than most who use the most expensive filters money can buy. I can only speak for myself and the other hobbyists I know in stating that a UGF could be a problem for you. If you are looking to save some money to be able to set up your tank there are a lot of other options available to you that would not be cost prohibitive. On my FO tank which is also a 155gl bow I spent less than a 100.00 bucks to set up my filter system. If however your heart is set on using an UGF then by all means do so, you may very well have great luck with it. To offer any further help, what has worked for me or for any other member we really need to know what type of tank you are looking to set up. If you are looking to go low tech with your filtration system let me know. Everything you would need to build a wet/dry filter that would cost hundreds of dollars can be bought at a Home Deport or a Lowes. I did it and saved a ton of dollars.

Scott
 
The office tank is a 37g. It will be basically a FOWLR, though I have enough light to keep mushrooms and zoos, and intend to.

The only fish in the tank will be a dwarf fuzzy lionfish.

My design intent is to run the UG forward, use the mesh on the plates, and use sand instead of CC because of the mesh.

My thought is that having a lot of nassarius snails will increase the effectiveness of the bed, and decrease the problems. I think I will have at least 100 nassarius in the tank. I think that the more motion in the sand, the better.

I sometimes have issues with my employees messing with the temperature when I am not in the office. I intend to install new thermostats with lockouts, but in the meantime, I think having two 100w (or 150?) heaters will keep me at 78. Thoughts?

I also intend to make an hob refugium to keep nitrates in check. On second thought, will a lionfish mess with pods? Then again, Chaeto is freaking ugly, and it needs to be hidden somewhere!

FYI, I already have the UG. I got it on clearance at Wal-Mart for $1.
 
From my experience with UGFs I think you would want to use RF rather than forward as this would help keep the detritus from piling up in the sand bed but by using sand and depending on how powerful the pumps are to create the flow under the UGF you may end up with a lot of sand being blown up into the water column. As I digest your idea it occured to me that what you are setting up is similar to a plenum bed. There has been a lot of debate as to whether this works but is something I've also thought of doing in my new tank. Definitely place a mesh screen down over the UGF so the sand doesn't filter through. Also you would want to be sure any burrowing fish don't distrube the deeper levels of the sand and with so many snails the top layer of the sand bed should be stirred enough to keep it clean.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11740539#post11740539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mash2k
I would run it reverse flow. Try Waterkeeper. i think he is the guy that uses an UGF.
Click to expand...

Nope it is Paul see--Paul B's RFUGF for his take on the subject.
 
ug filter

ug filter

I ran a 20 long for 4 yr with UG and a back filter but only one fish and it worked well for that.
 
First of all Waterkeeper is too young to use a UG filter :eek:

I have more than 30 years of experience in this hobby since the mid 70's. I used UGF until about 10 years ago. I always had nitrate/phosphate problems. Maybe there is a better way to use them. If there is I really would like to know becuase the filters in their various forms are increadably expensive especially for large tanks. I was just giving my experience and not knocking any one who uses them. If any feels that they are viable for a reef aquarium I would very much like to know how they are being used. I'm setting up a new 300gl tank and this type of filter would save me a ton of money over what I'm now considering. Again my personal experience has not been positive using a UGF in a reef or FO tank becuase of the build up of detritus.
Click to expand...

I have been in the hobby since the fiftees and have always used a UG filter. My 37 year old reef still uses one but you must use it correctly. If you use it the way the instructions tell you how to use it, you will be in trouble, detritus and nitrates anyway.
I think I invented this way of running it and I have zero nitrates, 18 year old fish and a bunch of spawning fish.
Corals are no problem.
You must run the UG filter in reverse and very slow, you also must have a filter of some type on the intake. I use a sponge but it ran for many years with a better intake filter.
You should stir it up where you can reach with a canister filter a couple of times a year. You have to use something course for substrait, I use dolomite.
In my set up I have three tubes going to the UG filter. I plumbed them together and they enter a box just above the water. A powerhead set on 150 GPH feeds it and the water is evenly sent down all tubes.
I lifted the UG filter plate after the first 25 years to see what it looked like. It was dirty but not as bad as I thought it would be. The gravel was full of tube worms.
There are pictures in my gallery.
The tank was about 34 years old here
13094Copy_of_DSC00919.jpg
 
I just had a pretty interesting thought on this subject. What do you all think of this idea:

Take Paul B.'s reverse flow undergravel setup and expand it one step further. Use an aquarium stand that does not have a full top plate. Set up some PC or T5 lighting at the optimum color spectrum for algae growth and have it face THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK! I would guess that a ton of algae would grow underneath the UGF plate in the plenum area. This would prevent the need for macro algae and possibly even a sump. Or you could use it in combination of a sump/refugium. It sort of seems like a simple version of an algae turf scrubber type deal.

Any thoughts on this?
 
I doubt that would work well but you could use an algae trough which I also have. You really don't want anything growing under the UG filter where you can't get to.
My algae trough is a vinyl or PVC 4" X 4" fence post sliced in half. It is on a slight angle. Water flows across it from the outflow of the skimmer. There is a plastic window screen in the trough which can be removed to clean off the algae. It sits under the lights and to the rear of the tank.
I do not use a sump This photo is from the side.
13094Algae_trough_002.jpg
 
Hi Paul, thanks for your input. For my larger tank I was planning on using an under tank sump with a DSB. Also would use outside overflows to go into my own handmade wet/dry filters. One of the things I've liked about this set up in my FOWLR is that a couple of times a month I blast the rock with a pump to loosen the detritus that builds up which the overflows take out of the tank. The rest I siphon off the sand with a hose that goes into a filter sock sitting in the sump which is then removed, cleaned and placed back into the tank. This will be a mixed tank fish, corals, inverts. How do you keep the level of organics low in the tank. I understand a UGF is mainly a bed for the colony of bacteria to live in but how do you personally keep detritus low in your tank? Thanks.

Scott
 
Scott since my tank is so old and overcrowded I certainly need to remove organics. With a gravel bottom it is easy because I can stir it up anytime which I do and I suck out the detritus with a diatom filter. It is very easy, On the diatom filter (a canister can be used) I put a restriction on the outflow hose. I use a small funnel looking thing that carnations come in to keep water on them. You can use the spout from a calk tube or something like that. It shoots water very fast like a powerwasher. I blast the rock and gravel where ever I can reach then go and watch an hout TV show. I stir it again and eat dinner, whatever. After a few times the tank is clean.
I do that maybe three or four times a year. I can also shove the tube of the diatom filter down the tubes to clean under there.
I don't have much detritus in my tank, no nitrates or phosphates.
Don't forget, the RUGF filter should be run very slow. If you run it fast besides having it clog with detritus very fast you will be pushing too much oxygen under the gravel and you will never get the nitrates low. I depend on some detritus between the gravel grains to limit flow to grow denitrifying bacteria.
You also need live rock as a RUGF will not do it on it's own.
If you use it this way, it will not clog or cause any problems.
The rumors about UG filters persist because they are never used correctly in salt water. Never run the thing fast, never use it without a filter or sponge on the intake and never run it fast.
Good luck.
Paul
Here is the tank with the front open. You can see the curved tube on the right side which is the powerhead that supplies the water to the canister where the three UG tubes enter. Water is fed to there and is sent evenly down each tube. There is a sponge on the powerhead just under the surface that I rinse once a week
13094DSC01396.JPG
 
Waterkeeper had seahorses, which he promptly killed, when you were just kneehigh to a grasshopper, Paul. :D
 
Wow... this is exciting.

So, I'm going to try using all 4 intakes on the UG. I'll use a small eheim canister with under 150gph flow, plumbed into all 4 intakes.

I'll then, in a "live framing" sort of way, scuff the pvc plumbing, and zip tie base rock to it.

What do you think?
 
I'll then, in a "live framing" sort of way, scuff the pvc plumbing, and zip tie base rock to it.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what this means but if it sounds good to you , Go for it.
 
"Live Framing" is a new thing people have been talking about in some of the magazines, though I dont see anything about it on RC.

Basically, you build pvc framework and stick rock to it. It isnt THAT simple, sometimes you can use wider pieces of pvc and hide powerheads in it. Ive even seen people PLUMB the framework directly, which can make for some interesting flow patterns.

I've also seen people using drills and dremels to make hanging holes in the pvc, then using nylon nuts and bolts in other pieces of the pvc to hang one piece into another to make cool rock work that can come apart with a pull and a twist for cleaning, fragging, or attaching new corals.

Like a reef lego set. Fun huh?

I'd rather use superglue than zip ties, but I suppose some nasty algae or aptastia would cure me.

I guess the thought is that, for some reason, coralline LOVES pvc.
 
So thats what it is.

I have been building rocks like that for years.
This 3' rock which is in my tank has a PVC skeleton.
It can be seen in the tank above the moorish Idol in the first photo of my tank above.
13094Copy_of_Copy_of_Copy_of_DSC00857-med.jpg
 
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