OK coral people - I need you!!

[EricHugo]

I need you all to put on your thinking caps for me.

I pose the following situation:

You are about ready to go out on a reef and attache fragments to it. Some of these are standard staghorn like branches, maybe 6" or so long. Theyw ill go in about 20-30 feet of water, and can be in a somewhat protected area, but will still face the potential for storms.

The others will be like clubs - maybe 6" to a foot long and solid. These willhave to go in very shallow water where they will get hammered with waves.

Previous methods haveused epoxy, tying with wire, and screws and nails.

If you were going to approach this, and these corals had to survive until they physically attached themselves to the reef, and you wanted it to be fast, easy, and solid, what would you do? What are some innovative possibilities for accomplishing this?

Also, let's say you can also have the fragments already grown onto a substrate or base of your choosing, if this makes a difference.

And. remember, you want coral tissue in contact with the reef to promote fast attachment.

 

[gooch]

If it were me attatching the coral to the reef I would have it grown onto a rock at least double the size of the frag. I would lay the frag flat on the rubble rock. I would also put a couple branches of the same coral on the rock. Laying the frag flat should help protect it in bad weather and allow it to encrust it's base faster. You could also attatche the frag standing or lying flat to see if it effects growth.

Also if I were placing this frag on a reef I would have a predetermined spot in mind. Drive 1/4" metal rods a couple of inches into the rock wall on a previous dive. Then later attatche the frag to the wall. Treaded rod would probably work well as you can put a washer and nut on the end of the frag to hold it in place. I do not know exactly how fast a coral encrusts in the wild but my guess would be a lot faster than in our systems.

gooch

 

[scubadude]

Hey Eric! not sure if this will help.

http://www.reefball.com/

They specialize in making reefballs for artificial reefs, This so far has been one of the best concepts I have seen. They are very stabile because of their weight and can apparently handle tidal/surge zones very well. Im sure some could be made to adapt frags very easily.

 

[smpolyp]

I 'm mental so I'm thinking different. I would treat it like a aquarium. Place it lower so it can adjust to the light and flow . And then move them to the needed location as they adapt.
You normally need training wheels before you can race fast.
Since I shot off at the mouth is there any zooxanthellea issues?

 

[baja_01]

I'ed do something like gooch is talking about, find the spots you want to put them, drive in two or more metal rods in the rock, have the coral on another rock with holes in it that woult line up with the rods in the reef. If you wanted the coral to attach then make the rock like a bubble letter I with the holes on the ends and the coral in the middle with the middle is as wide as the coral so it has to encrust down the edges to the reef.

 

[Reef Madness]

Perhaps grow the frags onto/into the appropriate rod/tube of inert material with sufficient strength, ie: PVS, acrylic, fiberglass, teflon.
These are then inserted into existing holes in rock (cut rod if needed) or drill holes where needed.

The rod adds flexibility of application/placement and needed strength in surge.

 

[GreenGoblin]

umm r u thinking of putting those frags in water in texas??
because u cant...
the water gets to cold for 1 and the water is not turbid enough for efficiant light to reach it in 20-30 ft

 

[eddie]

I've thought of this before.But like green goblin mentioned the cold water.

I live near the NC coast I figured it would work to actualy encrust frags in the summer for fun


I thought of some type of cage that floats several feet under water ancored at the bottom that held frags in some type of grid system

fwiw a gps could be used if they were off shore much

Im sure it would'nt be hard to find a spot that would work far as current goes it'd be kinda like a giant wave2k is what I pictured

 

[GreenGoblin]

IF YOU DO DO THIS PLZ POST SOME PICS I WOULD BE INTRESTED TO SEE THIS!
o yea how cold can the water get for corals before they would die??
because i noe in the winter here every couple of years the water reaches around 55. i guess it would be even colder there...
but arnt there some typ of corals that grow in cooler water?

 

[GreenGoblin]

hey if you wanted a reef to dive on or whatever u plan on doing i got an awsome idea!!!!!
ok:
buy a pice of land like 4 acres.
have a company come dig it out. to mak sort of a lake.
put lots of sand down like 2 feet of it. (covers the dirt)
have sort of a fish house on the property nothing fancy just a foom with electric.
get some of those big pools at walmart an use them as giant sumps...
and you can get piceces of concreat or those reefballs and put them all over the place.
and have a side section dedicated for mangroves and seagrass for biological filtration. and if fish spawn maby even a nesting grown...
then walla you have a reef.. and the best parts of this are
1 no bullsharks!!
2 you can have clean water...
3 no spending lots of money on metal halides for your corals!!!

i noe u might be thinking of the rain can pollute your lake lagoon but all the marine parks are outside and get rainded in.. look at
http://discoverycove.com

 

[skipm]

I am not a coral farmer but if I understand what it is that you are looking for, it is a way to make stable mounts of corals to an already exsisting reef. What I was thinking is to use small (1/2" diameter) fiberglass rods, drill a hole in the base of the corals skeleton that you wish to mount and a corresponding hole in the reef where you want to place the specmen, then I would use a reef safe, underwater liquid epoxy to mount the rod to the coral skeleton and the reef. I hope that this helps, Skip

 

[Rock Anemone]

I'm not a coral farmer either but, here's what I would do.

Cut a hole in the rock where the frag is going. It be awsome if there was a way to drill it.

Then, place the SPS in the hole with some strong glue, then suround the base with an underwater putty.

Rock Anemone

 

[acroporas]

ILLEGAL

ILLEGAL

Is this a hypothetical question or do you actually plan to do this? Do not try it because it would be ILLEGAL.

Since you are from TX I will assume that you plan to plant this coral in the US. First of all, no one should ever try to introduce a non-local species and 99.999% of all coral in aquariums in the US are not native to the US since it is illegal to collect or import Caribbean stony corals so it is extremely unlikely that you have acquired a Caribbean species (legally).

And you say staghorn coral. Both A. palamata, and A. cervicornis are further protected because they are candidates for the endangered species list.

But even if you did somehow obtain a Caribbean species. The only place they will live in the US is Florida and it is illegal to possess stony corals in Florida waters.

 

[Nagel]

Re: ILLEGAL

Re: ILLEGAL

Do not try it because it would be ILLEGAL.

For you, yes, this would be illegal. But you obviously don't know who Eric is.... Eric is Eric Borneman, the author of Aquarium Corals and a regular author in ReefKeeping Magazine. If you know him, you'll easily figure out that this thread has more to do with replenishing the reefs then taking from them, and could be or may become a government funded project ( I don't know the details, but I know this isnt for Eric's personal gain, thats for sure). I can tell you for fact that Eric isn't planning on introducing non-natives, and if he's gonna be doing this with caribbean species, I'm sure he'll be doing it with the governments blessing, permits, and all the necessary paperwork.

Might I suggest you do a little research on the author before you start getting all hot under the collar...

 

[acroporas]

Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m glad to know that he knows that he would need permits. In an attempt to apologize I will give some helpful information. I am a student at the University of Miami. Last semester, one weekend, some students got the opportunity to work on a reef replenishment program for a weekend. Corals were grown on 1/2 inch PVC pipe. The pipes were then placed in holes that had been previously drilled in the reef. The fragments were no where near the size he described, they were about 4 or 5 inches and they were placed in 15-20 feet of water. I assumed that a professional researcher would know that such projects existed and would go directly to them for advice. Though on a second reading I do see "previous methods have used epoxy, tying with wire, and screws and nails." which could be the results of that.
Eric, I wish you good luck.

 

[EricHugo]

acroporas:

I am the chair of the model systems committee for the Coral Health and Disease Consortium - part of the US Coral Reef Task Force. I currently have a $90,000 proposal in for partial funding to grow this coral. As a very close friend of Andrew Bruckner, who happened to run the workshop on Caribbean Acroporids being considered for the ESA, I am also - shall we say - intimately familiar with the current status of these corals...In fact, my grant proposal is in direct response to suggestions made at that workshop and my role as chairperson of a national research effort to culture these corals for research and restoration. I am also currently funded by an NSF fellowship to study white band disease in Caribbean Acroporids, among other things.
As someone who works in a department of Ecology and Evolution, I'm also familiar with non-native introductions, and have even given lectures on the subject. And one more thing...both species are also found in Puerto Rico, US Virgin islands, and other small Caribbean banks claimed under the US Guano Act of 1856 - the reason I know this is I have another proposal out to go look at baseline data, partly on cervicornis and palmata, from these remote banks in the middle of the Caribbean. Finally, I am not limited to collections in US territorial waters, but as a member of the Associated Marine Labs of the Caribbean, in conjunction with CARICOMP, and a new proposal about to go out to the CMRC iat Lee Stocking Island, Bahamas, and cooperation with the Oceanographic Insitute of Dominica, I am hoping to establish separate clonal lines from multiple locations and habitats throughout the Caribbean.


Thanks for the warning, though.

 

[SawCJack00]

LOL

 

[JakePehrson]

Okay Eric. Tell me what you think of this idea.

Drive a plastic lag bolt into the area where the coral is going to be placed. Have the coral frag grown on the top of a plastic plug that could be snapped onto the head of the lag bolt.

Quick, Easy and permanent.

The only problem I foresee is having to have a specialized plug made.

 

[Nagel]

Drive a plastic lag bolt into the area where the coral is going to be placed. Have the coral frag grown on the top of a plastic plug that could be snapped onto the head of the lag bolt.

Is there a reason to not use something like a stainless steel lagbolt? Or even an Iron one? I mean, its the ocean, not a tank, and there are tons of corals growing on sunken ships, so its quite a different atmosphere then our tanks.

I would even be so bold as to suggest maybe using hex fitted heads instead of traditional bolts, this way you can have a cap made that goes around it, and your frag can be attached to that plastic head in a controlled environment, and when placed on top of the bolt in the rock, the coral is not only encrusted to the plastic fitting, it's going to be somewhat inside of the top of the lagbolt in the hex fitting (with the "cap" between the coral and the metal of the bolt), giving it a little more support.

Just expanding on Jake's idea.

 

[photobarry]

I would think that the easiest method would be to grow the corals on a base with two hole predrilled into it and then ziptie the whole thing to some rock. I love zipties! I guess this would only work if there are appropriate places to tie it down. I know you can get really strong zipties from McMaster that should be able to stand up to storm surge.

-Barry