Opinions: New Check valve? Part II

Edward Smith

New member
Sorry for the double thread, but the first one has the wrong link at the first post and I don't want to waste anyone's time reviewing the wrong item, so I'm just restarting with the correct links.



I'm always on the quest for the "perfect" check valve, lol.

I have a 17g Zeroedge aquarium. The return is in the center of the bottom. If the pump were to fail, the tank would drain, hence the loss of about $1K in corals.

I'm so paranoid, that I'm even hooking up a Hayward NC Solenoid Valve

But it occurred to me, what if the power doesn't go out but the pump dies? The tank would still drain

So......check these out. Any thoughts?


Option one

and

Option two
 

stugray

Premium Member
Ed,

I actually liked the one you posted in the first thread.

Of the two links posted here, I like the first one, but be careful.
It states that you need 2 PSI to reopen the valve once it is closed.

Since water has about 0.5 PSI per foot of "head", you would need a minimum of 4 feet of drop in your system to open the valve at a minimum ( more like 6 feet or 3 PSI to be sure ).

Is your sump directly below the tank or one floor below?


As for the second link - Look up 'Eco Aqualizer'.
That is what they are trying to sell.
The magnets dont help the valve, it is supposed to "condition" the water & provide fewer limescale deposits ( snake oil IMO ).

Stu
 

uncleof6

New member
This should show Ed's concern.

Plumbingdiagramjpg.jpg


I am not a fan of check valves. I believe with design considerations, the need for a check valve can be eliminated. With the design of a zero edge system, due to the presentation of the tank, it is difficult to figure out w/o affecting the presentation. In a past time, returns such as this were done with clear airlift tubing, in suitable sizes, adapted to fit pvc, the outlet brought within one inch of the water surface, and then hidden by the aquascaping. In the case of a zero edge, the check valve might be the only viable solution. I would suggets if going that way, to use a wye check valve, as these have proven to be the least problematic, and can be dissasembled for cleaning in place.

wye check

64977P7280001.jpg


Jim
 

Edward Smith

New member
There is a satellite 15g sump directly below the tank that feeds it.

I call it a "satellite" because the satellite sump drains to the basement sump where the water is actually treated.

I initially had a wye check valve on it. Everyday, I would turn off the return pump just to confirm the valve would work (told you I was paranoid!). It would work about 19 out of 20 times, even it I just cleaned it the day before? I thought about adapting a stainless steel spring (short with very limited tension) just to give it the little push it would need to drop. Maybe that is still my best solution?

Bear in mind, I still have the Hayward. This is for a second line of defense.
 

uncleof6

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14806709#post14806709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Edward Smith
There is a satellite 15g sump directly below the tank that feeds it.

I call it a "satellite" because the satellite sump drains to the basement sump where the water is actually treated.

I initially had a wye check valve on it. Everyday, I would turn off the return pump just to confirm the valve would work (told you I was paranoid!). It would work about 19 out of 20 times, even it I just cleaned it the day before? I thought about adapting a stainless steel spring (short with very limited tension) just to give it the little push it would need to drop. Maybe that is still my best solution?

Bear in mind, I still have the Hayward. This is for a second line of defense.

Check valves fail.... all of them. Even wyes, the best design. Which is why it is wise to design them out of the picture. Even the "new" one will fail. It is good that your paranoia has led you to test them. You know first hand safely, what some of us found out the hard way. Solenoids have a death rate also. My ultimate wisdom on this :D is moving the returns up out of the risk zone, to be honest.

Jim
 

Edward Smith

New member
There is one solution but its a costly and a PITA.

The the setup is backed up to a wall. I could have the return go out the back, into the wall, up the wall to a height above the display water line, back down, into the sump and up to the display. If anything failed, if the tank wouldn't drain.

That's 6x 90 degree turns, ouch
 

uncleof6

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14806915#post14806915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Edward Smith
There is one solution but its a costly and a PITA.

The the setup is backed up to a wall. I could have the return go out the back, into the wall, up the wall to a height above the display water line, back down, into the sump and up to the display. If anything failed, if the tank wouldn't drain.

That's 6x 90 degree turns, ouch

PITA and too complicated.......
 

scaryperson27

New member
I would rather have two WYE check valves... Good idea though. Couldn't you just use vinyl tubing and save yourself the hassle?
 

TAB

New member
Runing a open ended U that goes above the water line would work. yes, it would be a pain and add head, but it would work.
 

Edward Smith

New member
If I went the open ended U, would I need a siphon break?

At the highest point of the U, I could Tee it off with a one way adapter? or upside down check valve? or run an air line somewhere?
 

scaryperson27

New member
yes you would need a break. You could run a Tee and have the vertical open pipe run really high so that gravity would force the water into the tank.
 

TAB

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14809968#post14809968 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Edward Smith
If I went the open ended U, would I need a siphon break?

At the highest point of the U, I could Tee it off with a one way adapter? or upside down check valve? or run an air line somewhere?



thats the point of the open end, it could be something as simple as a small hole, or just a T with stack on it.
 

BeanAnimal

Premium Member
Very simply put... I would NEVER trust a check valve to prevent a tank such as a zeroedge from draining. PERIOD. From a statistical standpoint any reasonable expendeture on a check valve setup will not be enough to prevent the failure. The NC solenoid with some flow sensing electronics to shut down the circuit in the event of pump failure is a better bet than any check valve. The problem... most folks don't have the knowledge to setup a reliable system.

So what to do? Biuld a return tower in the middle of the zeroedge (as easy as extending the return pump towards the top of the tank and hiding it with a rock "island").
 
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