phosban and reactor effluent

[reefkeeper2]

Is there any reason why I can't have my calcium reactor effluent drip through anti phosphorus compounds? I am presently trying out Phosban and though this would be a great way to eliminate any phosphorus coming out of the reactor.

 

[MattL]

Does Phosban contain aluminum or alumina compounds?

 

[reefkeeper2]

no, it's an iron based (ferric oxide) exchange resin

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The lower the pH the more poorly I expect many phosphate binding materials to work (because the more highly charged phosphate forms, like PO4---, will typically bind more strongly. Also, the iron will be more inclined to dissolve at the lower pH.

Whether either of those are significant reasons to not do it, I cannot really say.

Any comments, Habib?

 

[Habib]

Is there any reason why I can't have my calcium reactor effluent drip through anti phosphorus compounds?

I can't comment on Phosban itself but in general I would we a little cautious with a low pH and any media unless the manufacturer states it to be safe to use it in that way.


However, if you want to experiment then I would only use a small amount and use a larger amount using the normal pH aquariumwater.

One of the risks using low pH water is that when for whatever reason the pH changes from say 6.5 to say 8.2 some of the adsorbed substances (not only phosphate) might be released back into the tank water.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Thanks Habib. Since the product is ok'd for freshwater use, I wouldn't think a pH of 6.5 would be harmful. I have decided not to risk it though and will pass ordinary aquarium water thru it.

 

[Justjoe]

The lower the pH the more poorly I expect many phosphate binding materials to work (because the more highly charged phosphate forms, like PO4---, will typically bind more strongly. Also, the iron will be more inclined to dissolve at the lower pH.
Whether either of those are significant reasons to not do it, I cannot really say.

Hi, its Joe from Atlantis Marine World. I've been running my reactor effluent thru PhosBan with no problems for about a month now and from what I've read of GFO's, they perform better at a lower pH then normally seen in reef tanks. I strongly recommend them on reactor effluents. I have mine set up for reverse flow as well and not that the bed is fluidized and swirling around but rather the bed is lifted but basically static with a slight undulation of the fines at the surface of the media. I had some in a modified sand filter vessel but there were clumping issues when the water was fed down thru the media bed.
Early on the tank and reactor PO4 levels combined were 0.105 and the readings out of that PB reactor were 0.023. My PB media column is low while I'm flowing on average 1-2lpm thru the reactors. If I had some more media in there, my bet is it would be lower. I recently set up a larger reverse flow reactor (hopefully attached is a photo) which currently flows 9gpm and is taking the influent tank level of 0.079 down to effluent level of 0.016 on a single pass. I will be adding more media to that reactor as well in the near future. I think the pH would have to be much lower then reactor effluents to dissolve the media. All the reactors receive mechanically filtered tank water as well.
Care to guess what M.O.A.P stands for?
Joe

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

GFO's,

GFO?

Care to guess what M.O.A.P stands for?

Right after you tell me what a GFO is.

 

[Habib]

GFO:

Granular Ferric Oxide

MOAP:

My Own made Anti Phosphate???????????

Can we win something?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Habib, is it your understanding that they would perform better at lower pH?

 

[Justjoe]

GFO:

Granular Ferric Oxide

MOAP:

My Own made Anti Phosphate???????????

Can we win something?

How 'bout a behind the scenes tour at Atlantis?!
MOAP...
In keeping with President Bush...
Mother Of All Phosphate reactors
Joe

 

[Habib]

Mother Of All Phosphate reactors

Well in that case you better change the word "reactor" below MOAP to "reactors"



Randy:

Habib, is it your understanding that they would perform better at lower pH?

With the limited data (small range in marine water) I am a bit careful but I don't think that a lower pH will be an improvement.

Most of the inorganic phosphate in NSW is as HPO4-- and PO4--- .
There is practically no H2PO4- at pH > 7.8.

Since an extremely short residence time (seconds) can decrease the initial phosphate by at least 90% makes it very unlikely that the H2PO4-- is the limiting factor.

HTH

 

[reefkeeper2]

Nice looking reactor but I'm confused as to how its connected. The flow comes from the bottom? How is it connected to to your Ca reactor? I made one of my own out of some pipe and a powerhead but have wondered about using one of the fluidized sand filters. I don't want to spend the money to purchase one and then find out it grinds the media to dust!

 

[Justjoe]

Nice looking reactor but I'm confused as to how its connected. The flow comes from the bottom? How is it connected to to your Ca reactor?

Sorry for the confusion, the reactor shown is not the one that is hooked up to the Ca reactor. The one shown is supplied thru the bottom fitting from a high rate sand filter (HRSF), which hits a dispersion plate to spread the flow evenly up the reactor. The set up is essentially the same as the one hooked up to Ca reactor, I'll try to get a photo of it today.
It takes very little flow to gently lift the GFO bed to a static mode. MOAP shown is 18" diameter and currently holds ~ 44pounds of media and 9gpm is about the max I can put thru it without it getting too turbulent.
Joe

 

[reefkeeper2]

Do you think a commercial fluidized sand filter would work the same?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It takes very little flow to gently lift the GFO bed to a static mode. MOAP shown is 18" diameter and currently holds ~ 44pounds of media and 9gpm is about the max I can put thru it without it getting too turbulent.

44 pounds is one whale of a lot of phosphate remover, but then again, 20,000 gallons is a reasonably large tank.

 

[Justjoe]

Do you think a commercial fluidized sand filter would work the same?

If the flow is adjusted properly so its not a whirling sand storm, that should be fine. You may want to set one up with a pump with a bypass "T" and valve so you can really tweek the flow to the unit and bypass any water you don't need.
Joe

 

[Justjoe]

44 pounds is one whale of a lot of phosphate remover, but then again, 20,000 gallons is a reasonably large tank. [/B]

I think the suggested dose rate is 1gram/gallon and with the largest reef in this hemisphere and the 3rd largest in the world (closed systems), that adds up very quickly...
Joe

 

[simonh]

Here's a (blurry) picture of my Schuran Multifilter 100 (holds around 2litres of media total) that I use for phosphate remover and carbon. In the bottom you can see around 1 litre of phosphate remover and then the black section at the top is carbon. I too have the flow adjusted so the phosphate remover lifts and just bounces around a little at the surface.

 

[drtango]

I'm using a coralife "chemical reactor", available at pet warehouse, pet solutions etc, 29.95, hooked to an old maxijet with a small valve--perfect fluidization for the media.