pistol myth buster?

[Whys]

Sound = perception.
Shock = compression.

Compression will travel at different speeds thru different mediums. A sound wave is typically understood as one that can be perceived by the ear such as in air or water. Were I seismograph, I would disagree, as my "ear" would perceive sound waves / compression waves traveling thru the earth at much greater than the speed of sound in air or water.

I'm hair splitting, I know. But my basic point is that a compression wave is a compression wave, no matter how we name or perceive it.

------------------

More relevant... Has anyone here ever had a tank broken by a pistol shrimp? Given that no one has spoken up, I doubt it. Thus the concern is likely over blown by the LFS in question.

Still possible tho.

 

[noboddi]

It's a bit more complicated than a soundwave. When the pistol shrimp snaps his claw shut, a jet of water shoots out of a socket in the claw with such force that a bubble is created in it's wake. As the water pressure stabilizes,the bubble collapses with a pop and a flash of light from the heat of 5k degrees kelvin that is generated. Time beginning to end - 300 ms. The light is called sonoluminscence - light from sound

The jet of water is what stuns the prey. And I would believe that they can break glass, but as anyone who has one knows, they don't wander to the front of the tank that often.

 

[Tylt33]

To summarize:

1. *MANTIS* shrimp *can* break glass, but *rarely* do so. There are documented cases of this.

2. *PISTOL* shrimp have never been documented as breaking glass.

 

[Brent RH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14273472#post14273472 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crysis
Clearly he meant a mantis shrimp, and even then its not likely that they will crack the tank. Maybe the bottom but thats why we mantis owners line the bottom with acrylic. A pistol cant crack glass.

And my point being I'm not going to introduce a new member to a tank that my not be big enough for the pistol to feel the need to leave the other $$$ inverts alone.

 

[Brent RH]

Likely, I don't like that word. My LFS guy says he knows someone it happened to. I'll take his word for now. no way I'd take apart my tank to line the bottom with acrylic at this point anyway. They are cool. I hope we can all agree on that

 

[Tylt33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14276551#post14276551 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brent RH
Likely, I don't like that word. My LFS guy says he knows someone it happened to. I'll take his word for now. no way I'd take apart my tank to line the bottom with acrylic at this point anyway. They are cool. I hope we can all agree on that

He's talking about *mantis* shrimp NOT *pistol* shrimp. A mantis shrimp would likely slaughter all of your tank members. I'll buy you a new tank if a *pistol* shrimp breaks the glass.

 

[Whys]

Beware the Uzi shrimp my son! The jaws that smirk, the claws that shoot!

:uzi:

 

[Brent RH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14276608#post14276608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tylt33
He's talking about *mantis* shrimp NOT *pistol* shrimp. A mantis shrimp would likely slaughter all of your tank members. I'll buy you a new tank if a *pistol* shrimp breaks the glass.

Fine with me if you want to hop on the bandwagon of assuming. Sure seems to me like it could happen. Maybe like being struck by lightning odds. That and a 10 gallon tank does not have much thiner glass that my 46

 

[Tylt33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14276659#post14276659 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brent RH
Fine with me if you want to hop on the bandwagon of assuming. Sure seems to me like it could happen. Maybe like being struck by lightning odds. That and a 10 gallon tank does not have much thiner glass that my 46

The reference to the 10 gallon was about a MANTIS SHRIMP. MANTIS SHRIMP break glass, PISTOL SHRIMP DO NOT. You are more likely to have a fish swim into your glass and shatter your tank!!!

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

 

[Whys]

Tylt33, seriously, does it matter? He is not comfortable with a pistol shrimp. End of story.

Brent, it's your tank, your decision. No one else has to agree with you.

Do beware the uzi tho. That sucker will bust out your windows.

 

[Tylt33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14276699#post14276699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whys
Tylt33, seriously, does it matter? He is not comfortable with a pistol shrimp. End of story.

Brent, it's your tank, your decision. No one else has to agree with you.

Do beware the uzi tho. That sucker will bust out your windows.

It's endlessly frustrating when someone doesn't understand a concept that I'm trying to help explain to them. So yes, it does matter, probably not to you though.

 

[Whys]

Tylt, I'm just trying to help alleviate an unnecessarily tense conversation. Of course I care what people do and don't understand. Have you not seen me here before??

I think Brent understands just fine, and others are not required to adopt your point of view. That does not make them ignorant. Intelligent people often disagree. That's all.

Peace.

 

[Tylt33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14276852#post14276852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whys
Tylt, I'm just trying to help alleviate an unnecessarily tense conversation. Of course I care what people do and don't understand. Have you not seen me here before??

I think Brent understands just fine, and others are not required to adopt your point of view. That does not make them ignorant. Intelligent people often disagree. That's all.

Peace.

I'm not really tense; my "crazy pills" comment was a Zoolander quote, and I actually made it 'cause I thought you'd pick up on it and have a chuckle.

I didn't say anyone was ignorant, I'm not looking to throw insults, just to help delineate between two separate species. No one has ever verified a pistol shrimp breaking glass. It's the kind of rumor that should be squelched!

 

[greggnyce]

Brent you will learn that the LFS cannot be trusted. They are notorius for bad information. People here are trying to give you accurrate information from there experiences. LFS exist to make a profit not to help you. Pistol shrimp that pair with gobies are completely safe. I really cannot beleive this thread is still going, crazy.

 

[rdelong]

I hear mine snapping typically at night after the lights are out. Based on the noise I hear, I'd have a hard time believing it would shatter even the thinner tanks. I think it's a myth.

 

[Brent RH]

sorry for the chaos, back on page 1 we are talking about A mantis, Sorry, sorry, sorry...Tylt33- Hope your blood pres. goes down as this thread fizzles out!!!

 

[Tylt33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14278884#post14278884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brent RH
sorry for the chaos, back on page 1 we are talking about A mantis, Sorry, sorry, sorry...Tylt33- Hope your blood pres. goes down as this thread fizzles out!!!

I died due to high blood pressure. I hope you're happy.

 

[noboddi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14278197#post14278197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rdelong
I hear mine snapping typically at night after the lights are out. Based on the noise I hear, I'd have a hard time believing it would shatter even the thinner tanks. I think it's a myth.

On the other hand, there are pistol shrimp that make such a racket that the navy can use them like sonar to find submarines.

If you were to look at the biology, mantis shrimp create the pop with a strike at a speed of 50 mph. Pistol shrimp deliver the same strike at a speed of 62 mph.

If you read the International Wildlife Encyclopedia, they talk about pistol shrimp breaking glass jars in labs. They they can break glass is documented, the question is what thickness or strength of the glass can they break. The smaller the aquarium, the easier to break. Also starphire glass is weaker.

I think it unlikely though. Although mine once or twice has made a sound like someone fired a gun in the room, instead of his normal little pops. Don't know if it would have any effect on glass - my tank is acrylic, but that is in no way related to my shrimp

 

[Tylt33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14282504#post14282504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by noboddi
On the other hand, there are pistol shrimp that make such a racket that the navy can use them like sonar to find submarines.

If you were to look at the biology, mantis shrimp create the pop with a strike at a speed of 50 mph. Pistol shrimp deliver the same strike at a speed of 62 mph.

If you read the International Wildlife Encyclopedia, they talk about pistol shrimp breaking glass jars in labs. They they can break glass is documented, the question is what thickness or strength of the glass can they break. The smaller the aquarium, the easier to break. Also starphire glass is weaker.

I think it unlikely though. Although mine once or twice has made a sound like someone fired a gun in the room, instead of his normal little pops. Don't know if it would have any effect on glass - my tank is acrylic, but that is in no way related to my shrimp

The "strike" is nowhere near the same; mantis shrimp use their dactyl to actually strike objects, pistol shrimp do not actually connect with their prey.

Research by Dr. Roy Caldwell of U.C. Berkely has shown that mantis shrimp have the fastest strike in the animal kingdom.

 

[noboddi]

Hans Delbius has the pistol shrimp being faster. No matter really. They both have sonoluminescence and the heat produced is as hot as the surface of the sun.

All I am saying is that it is plausible.

And the mantis shrimp in you are talking about was a thumbslpitter, bopped prey with it's claw, instead of a jet of water. The pistol shrimp is still slightly faster, the study you are talking about still has the mantis at like 50 mph.

The fast strike recorded in the animal kingdom though is the trap jaw ant, Odontomachus bauri. It closes it's mandibles at like 140 mph, three times as fast as the mantis.