Please Critique my latest 215 design
- Thread starter REEFKEEPA
- Start date
stugray
Premium Member
REEFKEEPA,
Awesome setup & drawing!
You'll want a ball valve & union on each side of every pump.
( imagine a pump leak or pump maintenance without them )
For the bulkheads that poke through the back: Use threaded bulkheads. If you have to repair the plumbing on the outside of the tank, you can thread a cap into the inside while you work on the outside.
You should also have a bypass from the output of the return pump ( on the sump ) that goes back to the sump. Put a few extra 'ports' on this line ( you'll find a use for them later ) and you can tune the flow to the display.
The skimmer should sit higher if it really looks like the one in the pic. The outflow should be down-hill. Look into a hartford loop for return to the sump.
see gallery for ideas.
Stu
Awesome setup & drawing!
You'll want a ball valve & union on each side of every pump.
( imagine a pump leak or pump maintenance without them )
For the bulkheads that poke through the back: Use threaded bulkheads. If you have to repair the plumbing on the outside of the tank, you can thread a cap into the inside while you work on the outside.
You should also have a bypass from the output of the return pump ( on the sump ) that goes back to the sump. Put a few extra 'ports' on this line ( you'll find a use for them later ) and you can tune the flow to the display.
The skimmer should sit higher if it really looks like the one in the pic. The outflow should be down-hill. Look into a hartford loop for return to the sump.
see gallery for ideas.
Stu
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
This is just how I would do it....
I would raise the closed loop's intake bulkhead. It will need cleaning, and down behind all your rocks makes it pretty hard to even notice (makes it easier to suck in falling sand though!). I like to put those about 6" below the surface, and in a corner if you can...the glass is much stronger if holes are put in the corners rather than in the center. FWIW, you could also spread out those CL outlets...no need to have them so close.
Then, for the two sump returns... IMO, its better to run almost all your flow through the closed loop (more gph per watt because of no head loss), and use a smaller sump return. So, run the closed loop with 3 or 4 outlets, and the sump return with one. Make the CL pump larger to compensate, and make the sump return about 300-400gph only. This will do something else as well...
Run your overflows into the skimmer directly...then have your skimmer overflow into the sump. Get rid of the downdraft/beckett skimmer (outdated energy hog) and use a recirculating needlewheel skimmer for this. Examples include...Euroreef RC series, Deltec, H&S, and Aqua Medic 5000 series (oooh, a 5000 baby or 5000 shorty2 would be my picks).
With a lower flow through the sump, you can eliminate one of the overflows as well and use it for something more useful...like rock and corals.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=550482&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
There, with those things, I eliminated one large pump, shrunk another down a couple hundred watts, increased your skimmer performance, eliminated an overflow, lowered the heat from pumps, and increased the flow in the main tank by a good percentage.
I would raise the closed loop's intake bulkhead. It will need cleaning, and down behind all your rocks makes it pretty hard to even notice (makes it easier to suck in falling sand though!). I like to put those about 6" below the surface, and in a corner if you can...the glass is much stronger if holes are put in the corners rather than in the center. FWIW, you could also spread out those CL outlets...no need to have them so close.
Then, for the two sump returns... IMO, its better to run almost all your flow through the closed loop (more gph per watt because of no head loss), and use a smaller sump return. So, run the closed loop with 3 or 4 outlets, and the sump return with one. Make the CL pump larger to compensate, and make the sump return about 300-400gph only. This will do something else as well...
Run your overflows into the skimmer directly...then have your skimmer overflow into the sump. Get rid of the downdraft/beckett skimmer (outdated energy hog) and use a recirculating needlewheel skimmer for this. Examples include...Euroreef RC series, Deltec, H&S, and Aqua Medic 5000 series (oooh, a 5000 baby or 5000 shorty2 would be my picks).
With a lower flow through the sump, you can eliminate one of the overflows as well and use it for something more useful...like rock and corals.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=550482&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
There, with those things, I eliminated one large pump, shrunk another down a couple hundred watts, increased your skimmer performance, eliminated an overflow, lowered the heat from pumps, and increased the flow in the main tank by a good percentage.
ChemE
New member
hahnmeister drilled it and he is completely right (he and I often see eye to eye). I'd shoot for 300 gph through your sump/skimmer loop. By feeding your skimmer ALL the raw overflow water you will greatly increase skimate production.
Also, if it were me, I'd make that skimmer a CC airstone skimmer and use a MJ900 with the needlewheel mod to make it recirculate. This would keep the skimmer energy consumption down to under 20 watts and would assure you ridiculously good performance.
Also, if it were me, I'd make that skimmer a CC airstone skimmer and use a MJ900 with the needlewheel mod to make it recirculate. This would keep the skimmer energy consumption down to under 20 watts and would assure you ridiculously good performance.
dougwilliams
New member
I might be inclined to increase the pipe diameter in some places- like the overflows etc. Especially on somethign that large - even if you dont "need" it now, it's much easier to overdesign up front then it is to add on later.
PS- what did you use to draw up your plans?
PS- what did you use to draw up your plans?
REEFKEEPA
New member
Thanks guys,
The overflows are sized as such due to Richard Durso's suggested method. The flow rate through the sump will be SLOW.
Probably around 325gph.
I am working on the front view which will give a much better Idea of the closed loop design. I wonder if one 1" overflow would be adequate for 300-400gph flow.
The skimmer is not written in stone even though everyone has their own opinion. I am still looking at the needlewheels but have yet to see a DIY design that I could build for less than the Becket.
I don't want an air pump. I hate them.
All drawings were done in Autocad 2000. Im too cheap to upgrade to ACAD 2006. It's really cool to work with though.
The overflows are sized as such due to Richard Durso's suggested method. The flow rate through the sump will be SLOW.
Probably around 325gph.
I am working on the front view which will give a much better Idea of the closed loop design. I wonder if one 1" overflow would be adequate for 300-400gph flow.
The skimmer is not written in stone even though everyone has their own opinion. I am still looking at the needlewheels but have yet to see a DIY design that I could build for less than the Becket.
I don't want an air pump. I hate them.
All drawings were done in Autocad 2000. Im too cheap to upgrade to ACAD 2006. It's really cool to work with though.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Check out Spazz'z needlewheel designs...or...I have some as well. We use Oceanrunner pumps > premium aquatic sells the 3700 for about $90. One or two of these pumps on a 36-48" tall 8" cylinder and you've got a rocking skimmer. Or, a good option is 'semi-DIY'. Sometimes the DIY option isnt always the cheapest. You can buy a ASM skimmer from asmskimmer.com, and have them recirculate mod it. This skimmer is cheap, and so is the mod, yet is turned into a deltec/H&S of sorts. OR, a highly underrated skimmer here in the states is the Aqua Medic 5000 series. A 5000 baby or shorty2 would be perfect for a system like this.
For the overflow diameter, one 1" standpipe would be plenty, but to cut down noise, make the standpipe a stockman out of 1.5" PVC (2-3" cap) that reduces to the 1" bulkhead at the bottom. This cuts down on the amount of air that the standpipe sucks in.
Also, depending on the height of the skimmer if you direct feed it, keep in mind that a standpipe muffler might not even be needed in the overflows...but on the skimmer's output instead...since that will be the new drain really.
I have a tank with an overflow where the tank is 5' tall at the top, and the skimmer is 4' tall. The overflow direct feeds the skimmer, and so the water only drops 18" from the overflow into the skimmer (skimmers water level is just over 36"). Very little noise is created because of this. I only use a 1.5" standpipe with an open top. Then the skimmer's standpipe/outlet is about 32" tall, and the sump is about 22" tall. This is again only a 10" drop so with a diagonal drop with a 2" pipe on the skimmer...there are no bubbles made and no noises to go with. By 'terracing' the tank's drain in this manner, the water never has the chance to accelerate as it drops...and this velocity increase is what causes a drop in pressure which sucks air into the standpipe...just like a venturi.
Kinda cool I always thought...terraced drains that is...
For the overflow diameter, one 1" standpipe would be plenty, but to cut down noise, make the standpipe a stockman out of 1.5" PVC (2-3" cap) that reduces to the 1" bulkhead at the bottom. This cuts down on the amount of air that the standpipe sucks in.
Also, depending on the height of the skimmer if you direct feed it, keep in mind that a standpipe muffler might not even be needed in the overflows...but on the skimmer's output instead...since that will be the new drain really.
I have a tank with an overflow where the tank is 5' tall at the top, and the skimmer is 4' tall. The overflow direct feeds the skimmer, and so the water only drops 18" from the overflow into the skimmer (skimmers water level is just over 36"). Very little noise is created because of this. I only use a 1.5" standpipe with an open top. Then the skimmer's standpipe/outlet is about 32" tall, and the sump is about 22" tall. This is again only a 10" drop so with a diagonal drop with a 2" pipe on the skimmer...there are no bubbles made and no noises to go with. By 'terracing' the tank's drain in this manner, the water never has the chance to accelerate as it drops...and this velocity increase is what causes a drop in pressure which sucks air into the standpipe...just like a venturi.
Kinda cool I always thought...terraced drains that is...
REEFKEEPA
New member
Thanks again,
I am in no rush to complete this design because my house is being completely remodled. I will have a generator and an ATS so I won't have to worry about power outages. Thats what killed my 4 Y.O. 70 gal Reef.
It was virtually maintenance free.
Except of course feeding cleaning and monthly water changes!
I am in no rush to complete this design because my house is being completely remodled. I will have a generator and an ATS so I won't have to worry about power outages. Thats what killed my 4 Y.O. 70 gal Reef.
It was virtually maintenance free.
Except of course feeding cleaning and monthly water changes!
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Thats looking better. Ill hold my breath on the CL intake(s) as you requested...but I hope its a good reason. FWIW, I forgot to mention it, but I would also suggest dual intakes. Some things can clog one, but not two. Unless you plan on some wicked-huge intake strainer to prevent this (Im talking baseball size of larger here).
You can also plumb the overflow directly into the skimmer, and recirc mod it. Or, create a baffle setup that would make all the water pass through the skimmer area at least, of not the skimmer itself before anything else. This is a very effective way to skim.
I wouldnt bother with the Sea swirl on the sump return. Your return's flow will pale in comparison to the flow generated by the loop. The SS can go on the loop, or instead of a SS, perhaps an ocean's motions device on the CL would be a good idea.
You can also plumb the overflow directly into the skimmer, and recirc mod it. Or, create a baffle setup that would make all the water pass through the skimmer area at least, of not the skimmer itself before anything else. This is a very effective way to skim.
I wouldnt bother with the Sea swirl on the sump return. Your return's flow will pale in comparison to the flow generated by the loop. The SS can go on the loop, or instead of a SS, perhaps an ocean's motions device on the CL would be a good idea.
ChemE
New member
Reefka,
I know you said these drawing weren't to scale, but why ask the CL pump to draw water left 2'-3' just to return it right 2'-3'? What I'm saying is, it would be very beneficial to rework your CL piping to include as few 90's and length of pipe as possible. Maybe something like this...
You know me, I'm all about that last 1%.
I know you said these drawing weren't to scale, but why ask the CL pump to draw water left 2'-3' just to return it right 2'-3'? What I'm saying is, it would be very beneficial to rework your CL piping to include as few 90's and length of pipe as possible. Maybe something like this...
You know me, I'm all about that last 1%.
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