Propane vs. Electrical Water Heating

H

hambalid

New member
Hello experts,

I have a 500 gallon system in my detached garage (which is now the fish room), and I would like to know if there's a better way to heat it other than using electrical heaters.

Since this has been a colder winter than usual, my electric bills have almost doubled due to my heaters running overtime.

My challenges are:

1) The garage is more of a shed, so the insulation is currently lousy. Insulating it will be a spring/summer project most likely.

2) The garage has a huge concrete slab. Good for summers, but bad for winters. Neither of my sumps sit directly on the slab.

3) I live in California where electrical energy costs are unreal, so if I don't have to use electricity that's a plus!

4) My tank is open top ( 48" x 60" ). This leads to a lot of evaporation.

Can I use an alternative means to heat my tank (i.e. an inline propane water heater)?

What kind of material could I use to insulate my sumps?

Has anyone gone through this, and what advice can you give me?

Should I cover the tank, or put a top on it?

Thanks!

dan.
 
I don't think I would go with that tankless heater. It looks to me as if the fittings are made of brass and will surely leach copper into your system. I would also guess that the heating coil is made of copper as well. You would need an all stainless steel version of that if you were to use it.

Your best bet would be to insulate the garage/shed very, very well.

Also, what type of heat do you have for your home? Is there any chance you could use your existing furnace to heat the garage? If you have forced air, you could add a duct to the garage. If you have hot water baseboard, you could add a radiator. Seems to me that if you could keep the room itself warm, you wouldn't have such a demand on you electric water heaters for your tank.

Now, upon re-reading your Q's, I see that the garage is detatched. Could you possibly get a gas line out there and get a small gas room heater?
 
Any heater that has to heat up metal pipes will have to be built preferibly with Titanium. You can not use copper, brass steel, carbon steel or Aluminum. Stailess 316 might work but will still be a bit risky.
You may want to experiment, the coil connected to a standard water heater with a recirculation pump connected to a thermostat. Temperature lowers water recirculation starts and water heater turns on with it's own thermostat.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9248/cid/2224
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for all the replies.

I hesitate to try the inline water heater because I don't know what the insides are actually made of, and because I'm concerned about the overall life of the heater due to hard water buildup due to heat.

For sure, insulation needs to happen regardless if I want to conserve heat. I should really get off my butt and work on that--I'm just not excited about working with fiberglass.

I do like the idea of water running through a coil providing radiant heat. If the coil has any lime buildup, then I just clean the outside, rather than having to deal with the inside.

Man, do I wish that I could run a line to the garage, but I'm not convinced that the money spent to run the line would outweigh the winter energy costs in the near term.
 
OK, forget the line to the garage then. How about a room heater that runs on propane and a thermostat?

How about insulating the garage with pink styro that is sold in sheets at home depot?
 
Actually...both of those sound cheap and easy. Can't think of a reason why they wouldn't work or cost a lot.

Heh...seems pretty obvious now. :lol:

Now I just need to figure out how much fuel a propane room heater will use. Out here, a 5 gallon tank costs about $25 to fill. If I only had to fill twice a month that would save me a ton of cash. As it stands right now, I'm about $200-$250 over budget per month than a non-winter month.

Thanks for pointing this out, Fred!
 
Cover the tank, the evap is a large contributor. An insulated cover may help, as will insulating the "non viewing" sides.
 
I agree with the cover up the tank idea! Throw a lid on your filters & also your tank & it should help quite a bit.

cheap & easy to do!!

Would it be possible to enclose the filters/tank stuff in a small room in your garage area?
 
A good trick of the hottub industry is to house the pumps inside the tub enclosure, they insulate the panels and the heat from the pumps helps to keep the heat transfer of the tub to a minimum... you could do the same for your pumps and other equipment, allowing them to help heat some of the water.
 
Be careful if you combine insulation with some type of combustion heater. You'll be limiting gas exchange with the outside, while at the same time introducing a source of higher CO2, CO, and lower O2. You'll definitely want a fresh air vent for any air pumps, skimmers, etc. or you may find your PH plummeting, if the O2 crash doesn't kill the tank first.
 
I have one of these in my detached workshop. I do not have any fish stuff out there but it heats the space up very well. I placed 2 fans next to the ceiling to keep the air moving and the shop stays about 75 degrees in Jan.

Heater

They also make bigger ones, mine will run about 10 hours on a gallon, my shop is 18 X 30.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6996722#post6996722 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reverendmaynard
Be careful if you combine insulation with some type of combustion heater. You'll be limiting gas exchange with the outside, while at the same time introducing a source of higher CO2, CO, and lower O2. You'll definitely want a fresh air vent for any air pumps, skimmers, etc. or you may find your PH plummeting, if the O2 crash doesn't kill the tank first.
Click to expand...

just an aside on this: this weekend, I had our vent-free fireplace running for a couple of hours, and even with a completely uncovered 75 gallon sump in the basement ph dropped from 8.3 to 8.0.

The tank is near the fireplace with a tight lid but two 80mm fans blowing in.

I couldn't belive that it could drop it .3 in about 3 hours.
 
Hello Everyone,

I'm going to try the low tech stuff first--insulation and covers.

If that doesn't work, then I'll look at the heating (with proper ventilation).

Thanks for the advice on the gas exchange/pH issues. I didn't realize that the effect could be so acute on the tank.

Unfortunately, I don't have a really scientific method to measure success here; however, I'll just use the energy bill as an indicator. I may have to re-visit this thread next year this time to discuss my success.

Best,

dan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Itchy Trigger
Heaters for Sump and for Storage Tanks
Replies
2
Views
269
aquaman67
aquaman67
F
New Reef - Need recommendations
Replies
13
Views
620
Cdentata
C
stevedola
Remote sump??
Replies
6
Views
537
shred5
shred5
S
Back up power supply
2
Replies
22
Views
832
Reefing102
Reefing102
Itchy Trigger
DC Pump Recommendations Needed
Replies
5
Views
310
Itchy Trigger
Itchy Trigger
Back
Top