Question about extending MH cables

chwkreefer

chwkreefer

Member
I've got Metal Halide ballasts that were put together for me and the cords have just regular ends on them. What I want to do now is move my ballasts to my crawlspace. My tank is on the second floor. I am going to be installing some conduit between floors and running some cables. So the cable lengths would probably be about 20 feet.

Now I'm wondering can I just leave the existing cables and just make up some more cables to connect between them Is the length of cable a problem? or adding more connections going to be a problem? Do I have to hardwire them together because of the distance?

Hope this makes sense. I would appreciate a prompt response as I'm planning on making some changes this weekend.

Bill
 
Last edited:
chwkreefer,

they way I had it on my mind, is you have a gauge for X amount of length, if you want the cable longer, than you must increase to correct gauge for that length,

hellolights.com, reefgeek.com, would answer that ? correctly on correct size/length.

sorry that couldn't be of much help, but be careful and only trust a reliable source,

just saw a case where the ballast blow up because it was hook incorrectly, good luck,

sam
 
becarefull your on the load side of the ballast not the line side 20 ft is not that long of a run but the bulbs need the correct voltage to fire and maintain lamp life be sure to check what type of ballast oyur using electronic or magnetic most magnetic ballast don't mind the longer run as long as u size your cable right but electronic on the other hand are picky most need to be located within 6 ft of the ballast while others can be remote mounted up to 16ft check your ballast for type and manufactor to find out the max distance it can be mounted regardless of wire size if it is a magnetic and your run doesn't exceed 25ft #12 would be fine also if your using de (hqi) your cable connections won't mater as far as which lead is connected to the lamp (black-white green is ground) but on a socket type it will matter which lead is connected to the eye (center of lamp socket ) and the shell (outer portion of socket ) on a electronic ballast it will be marked same for a magnetic but all magnetics are the same so if it's not marked the shell is connected to the common lead on the ballast and the eye is connected to the lead marked lamp coming off the capacitor
 
Maximum Ballast To Lamp (BTL) wire distance for magnetic Probe Start MH:

ANSI M57 Ballast (175-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 420ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 250ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 150ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 100ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 65ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢

ANSI M58 Ballast (250-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 300ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 200ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 125ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 75ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 50ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢

ANSI M59 Ballast (400-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 200ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 125ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 75ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 50ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 25ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢

ANSI M47 Ballast (1000-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 325ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 200ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 125ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 75ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 50ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢


The lengths above are the maximum cord length in feet. These lengths assure the lamp will still operate within specs (ANSI Specs).

Other ballasts will depend on design. Pulse Start, HQI and electronic ballasts are limited by the ignition voltage drop.
 
Impressive,

My guess, is I have an Ansi code of S51 for Son Agro ballast 400 watt. Input Voltage 120/208/240/277, 60 Hz, Input Power 464 Watts, Operating Current @ 120 V 3.8 Amps, @ 208 V 2.2 Amp, @ 240 V 1.9 Amp, @ 277 V 1.7 Amp

Any idea where I could get the maximum ballast to lamp info on that one.

Thanks
Bill




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7143191#post7143191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
Maximum Ballast To Lamp (BTL) wire distance for magnetic Probe Start MH:

ANSI M57 Ballast (175-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 420ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 250ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 150ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 100ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 65ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢

ANSI M58 Ballast (250-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 300ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 200ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 125ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 75ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 50ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢

ANSI M59 Ballast (400-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 200ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 125ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 75ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 50ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 25ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢

ANSI M47 Ballast (1000-watt Probe Start Metal Halide)

10 Gauge Wire: 325ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
12 Gauge Wire: 200ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
14 Gauge Wire: 125ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
16 Gauge Wire: 75ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢
18 Gauge Wire: 50ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢


The lengths above are the maximum cord length in feet. These lengths assure the lamp will still operate within specs (ANSI Specs).

Other ballasts will depend on design. Pulse Start, HQI and electronic ballasts are limited by the ignition voltage drop.
Click to expand...
 
I have PFO 250w HQI & they sell extension cables to extend the distance between bulb & ballast
I think they were like 8' & allowed me anough room to move my ballasts to the basement
 
The limitation with the M80 ballast is the ignitor. Longer the cord the lower the starting pulse height (ignition voltage) will be at the lamp.

If the ballast is an Advance (71A5880) equipped with a standard ignitor (LI522-H5) the recommended BTL is 5 feet.

For aquarium use the lamp is usually replaced a lot sooner than the average rated lamp life. In this situation the industry standard seems to be within 16 or so feet. When a lamp ages the ignition voltage requirement increases. At some point over time the lamp may not light reliably. The good part is most Double-Ended (DE) lamps today are designed to be started at 4000-4500 Volts minimum and an ANSI M80 ballast peaks at 6000 Volts if it is built to current ANSI Standards.

The best choice (lamp manufacturers preference because this assures reliable lamp starting) but is costly is to use a superimposed ignitor. A standard ignitor (impulser type) uses the ballast secondary coil as a step up transformer to provide the proper ignition voltage. A superimposed ignitor has a step up coil built in. The ignitor would need to be within 3-5 maximum feet from the lamp but the ballast could be mounted up to 300ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ away with the appropriate gauge wire.

Some Double-Ended (DE) 70, 75, 150 and 250-watt aquarium fixtures utilize this type of set up. The ignitor is actually mounted inside the pendent or hood while the ballast is remote. One down side is the ignitor can vibrate and cause a buzzing sound.
 
Chwkreefer,

Do you have the model/part number for the ballast or ignitor?

I have access to almost very HID ballast and lamp ANSI specification. If you are trying to use a MH lamp on that ballast the BTL will most likely vary. Then I would need to know the lamp you would be using.
 
I'll have to tear open the ballast box to be sure but from what I've read the son agro ballast S145 430 watt. The bulbs are 400 watt.

That's all I can give you for now. I had the ballasts built at a hydroponics shop and asked them to put in son agro ballasts.

Thanks for your willingness to help, I sure appreciate it.

Because I don't have an outlet in the crawlspace I was going to use the outlet from my fish closet. So I would run the cable to the crawlspace (to the ballast) which would be approx 20'. Then of course the cables would have to return to the lamps for approx 25'. The reason for this is eliminate more heat in the summer time.

Bill




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7143915#post7143915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
Chwkreefer,

Do you have the model/part number for the ballast or ignitor?

I have access to almost very HID ballast and lamp ANSI specification. If you are trying to use a MH lamp on that ballast the BTL will most likely vary. Then I would need to know the lamp you would be using.
Click to expand...
 
That ballast canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be a SON Agro ballast. The input amps and wattage is too low to be a SON Agro ballast. It matches a standard CWA (Constant Wattage Autotransformer) High Pressure Sodium (HPS) ANSI S51 ballast.

What lamp are you planning on using with that ballast? Brand? Type?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7144144#post7144144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
That ballast canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be a SON Agro ballast. The input amps and wattage is too low to be a SON Agro ballast. It matches a standard CWA (Constant Wattage Autotransformer) High Pressure Sodium (HPS) ANSI S51 ballast.

What lamp are you planning on using with that ballast? Brand? Type?
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'll have to open up the case to tell you for sure. I have been running 400 watt MH bulbs on them for almost 3 years. I picked the Son Agro's so I could use them with the Radiums, now I'm using XM 400 watt 10K's. I'll get back to you later with the rest of the info.
 
I opened up the box and here are the numbers:

lamp types:
430 w HPS Son Agro
400 w HPS s51

120/208/240

There were some smaller hard to read numbers on there as well. Do you need those?

As mentioned I am running 400 watt MH bulbs XM 10K's at present. I have been using these ballasts for almost 3 years.

Bill




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7144144#post7144144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
That ballast canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be a SON Agro ballast. The input amps and wattage is too low to be a SON Agro ballast. It matches a standard CWA (Constant Wattage Autotransformer) High Pressure Sodium (HPS) ANSI S51 ballast.

What lamp are you planning on using with that ballast? Brand? Type?
Click to expand...
 
That ballast is similar to a 400-watt PFO-HQI ballast. You shouldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t exceed 16 feet with that ballast if you plan on using European spec lamps. If you use North American spec SE lamps you could go 25 feet.
 
Thanks for the info. What gauge of cable do you recommend? And would XM's or Ushio's classify under European or American spec?

Appreciate the help.

Bill

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7145435#post7145435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
That ballast is similar to a 400-watt PFO-HQI ballast. You shouldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t exceed 16 feet with that ballast if you plan on using European spec lamps. If you use North American spec SE lamps you could go 25 feet.
Click to expand...
 
The MX Single-Ended (SE) lamps are built to North American specs.

The Ushio 10,000K UHI-S400AQ/10 is a European lamp.

The Ushio 10,000K UHI-S400AQ/10/CWA is built to North American specs.

Note that ballast will overdrive all North American spec lamps.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7146991#post7146991 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
The MX Single-Ended (SE) lamps are built to North American specs.

The Ushio 10,000K UHI-S400AQ/10 is a European lamp.

The Ushio 10,000K UHI-S400AQ/10/CWA is built to North American specs.

Note that ballast will overdrive all North American spec lamps.
Click to expand...

Ok so staying with the radium allows me a longer cable. What guage should I get.

TIA
 
The Radium is a European lamp so you should stay within 16 feet.

The Radium lamp is a little different than the other European lamps. That ballast will actually overdrive it.

You should use 14 or larger gauge wire that is rated for 600 volts.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7151153#post7151153 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulErik
The Radium is a European lamp so you should stay within 16 feet.

The Radium lamp is a little different than the other European lamps. That ballast will actually overdrive it.

You should use 14 or larger gauge wire that is rated for 600 volts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate your knowledge.

Bill
 
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