Quieting a Durso

Anthrax15

New member
I've throttled the return back and added a bubble baffle to reduce flow and microbubbles but I still get a gurgling, water cascading noise in my standpipe that I can't quiet. Any suggestions? I dont have a lot of room due to the lid I added for jumpers.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthrax15/9735275374/" title="Untitled by Anthrax15, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7458/9735275374_9bf9419d51.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthrax15/9732045953/" title="Untitled by Anthrax15, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/9732045953_33cea3ba5f.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthrax15/9735276674/" title="Untitled by Anthrax15, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3754/9735276674_ff73cd9f58.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="Untitled"></a>
 
Looks like you have your drain and return in the overflow? If so, do a search for Herbie. Very easy to convert your set up. Just cut the top of the durso off so all you have is a straight drain pipe about 6" below the overflow height. Add a GATE valve near the bottom of the drain above the sump. Have the drain about 1" below waterline in your sump.

Now cut the top off the return so all you have is a straight drain like the first one. This will be your emergency backup drain. Cut it about 1" below the overflow.

Now run your return up and over the back of the tank.

Have the gate valve fully open and turn on your return pump. SLOWLY close the gate valve until a "siphon starts". Fine tuning this over a 30min period. Do it slowly.

Vola! A silent, micro bubble FREE drain with an emergency backup!

If your return pipe is smaller, I would consider to use this as the primary drain with the gate valve and the larger pipe as your emergency.

Add some plastic mesh to the top of the drains to keep snails etc out....
 
Unfortunately I will not be able to do that. The overflow and PVC was in before I bought it and is glued in tight. I have no way of getting my hands, let alone tools in there to cut it.

Any other ideas?
 
I gotta know.... Is that your face in the reflection on the first pic?

Anyways, if that's how your durso is setup its wrong.... Thus quite noisy

You need a cap on the open part that drains to your sump and if I recall that other hole that is drilled should be covered up.

The cap then needs a small hole drille in it, I started witha 1/16th or so dia bit. Mine still gurgled so I ended up drilling I think 3 more and which quieted it down completely. Then drilled a 5th hole which made it very loud so I covered that up. I think this is where most people mess up, allow to little or to much air into the pipe.

With the completely open top plus the extra hole I would think it wold be quite loud
 
Reduce the flow rate until it quiets down. That is the only way to solve the issue. The physics of open channel stand pipes dictate that as the solution. Unfotunately, I don't suspect your tank will fair to well with that. Where folks mess up with dursos is trying to get more than the laminar flow rate through a durso stand pipe. The physics win every time.

The laminar flow capacity for a 1" open channel is around 50 gph. Good luck...there is no room in that overflow to do anything at all. I am sorry that someone sold you their problem.
 
Well, if you are looking for your durso to be completely silent, then you need to do as the prior post described, which as is suggested is impractical. If you are looking for the durso to be less noisy, then there are some things you can do. First, as one post above suggested, put a cap on the top of the open pipe, and put a hole (or two, experiment) in the top. That should quiet things somewhat. If you can hear rushing water in the pipe below the tank, you can wrap it with pipe insulation, that helps too. If the noise comes from water exiting into the sump, you can plumb the return directly into your skimmer, as long as the output of said skimmer can handle the flow; or, if not, you can build a muffler box out of a few pieces of acrylic. None of these things will get you to 'silent' but they should help.
 
Actually, A 1" durso will handle 300 - 350gph pretty easily if it is constructed properly. As suggested above, you are missing the cap.

Don't believe me, however - please take a quick look at the chart below!
 

Attachments

  • Aquarium Bulkhead Tests.docx
    21.7 KB · Views: 0
Actually, A 1" durso will handle 300 - 350gph pretty easily if it is constructed properly. As suggested above, you are missing the cap.

Don't believe me, however - please take a quick look at the chart below!

Unfortunately, we are not dealing with flow through a bulkhead here. The physics of flow through a bulkhead are very straight forward, the physics of durso/open channel drains is very complex, and involves how much water is in the pipe. Hate to be disagreeable, but how you construct an open channel has nothing to do with the flow rate it can handle without issues. How much water (how much cross-sectional area) is in the pipe, determines whether you will have problems or not.

It is articles such as the above referenced article that keep this debate alive. The article is based on nothing, has no point of reference and is therefore useless. It was written by an individual that does not understand physics, nor flow through a bulkhead or pipe. :rolleye1:

Based on the physics, a 1" bulkhead will flow 1660 gph with a 24", with 0 friction loss, realistically it will flow around 1500 gph with very little friction loss (large pipe,) with a 24" drop, and probably 1200 gph in 1" pipe is not unexpected. A 2" bulkhead with a 24" drop, will flow 6667gph not accounting for any friction loss. These numbers refer to flow through a siphon system. So we need to stop using these rediculously flawed articles on flow through drains systems as a basis for debating the relative merits of Durso standpipes.

Can you get 350gph, through a 1" durso? Yes you can. Can you get more through a 1" durso? Yes you can. Will you have problems with it? Yes you will. Will it be stable? No it will not be. Will it be a high flood risk? Yes it will be.

The durso is depricated; it is time to move on. It was designed to solve a specific problem: stop the water fall to the bottom of an overflow. It was not designed to be tasked to do what we need of a drain system; the inventor had no idea how they worked (no knowledge of physics.) He was simply afraid of a full siphon, so put a hole in the top...intuitive to a point, but also bought a whole lot of problems for hundreds of users—that is a well known item of information, a fact if you will.

The question I am dying to ask is: in what world does anyone think that you can get 350gph down a 1" pipe, and have it not more than 1/4 full of water? Not in this world anyway...This topic has been beat to death, calming explained by folks that do understand the physics, challanged by those that don't, the subject of many shouting matches on a religous level from both sides. The simple truth is: if they were not a red headed step child, plagued with unsolvable problems, there would be no debate at all...
 
Unfortunately I will not be able to do that. The overflow and PVC was in before I bought it and is glued in tight. I have no way of getting my hands, let alone tools in there to cut it.

Any other ideas?

Can you simply unscrew the bulkhead? If it's glued in, you'd have to replace the bulkhead anyway. (I'm assuming you do actually have two holes in the overflow.)

If/when you replace it, don't glue anything on the tank side, just push it in snug. Makes changes & adjustments easier later. DO make sure you glue everything underneath, however.
 
Honestly I ditched my durso in favor of an Herbie. I just ran my return over the back and done. Sorry if this isn't a relevant post as I just caught the title of your thread and didn't read any of it.
 
Herbie is the answer. I would be happy to help with set up if you want. You could even come by and see one of mine. Send me a PM if you're interested.
 
Thanks for all the info and suggestions everybody, I ended up finding a cap laying around the house and it quieted it down enough to be bearable. When I do my own, I'll definitely go Herbie.
 
Back
Top