Radion G4 HEI Optics (Light Dispersing Domes) -- First step in true LED breakthrough

[LQT]

Anybody notice in the MD video, the side by side comparison shot of of the G4 and G3, the blinding light spill at eye level of the G4? It seems as if the protruding lens domes are all illuminated, and are annoyingly blinding at eye level as compared to the G3. Not a good athesthetic for our beloved rimless tanks...

 

[chercm]

Again, I disagree. You're under-selling their range a great deal.

what ever . i am strong believer of T5. LED are meant for ppl who have a lot of time playing with settings and have a lot of money to burn when their corals die.

i understand that a lot of nice tank out there and a lot of horrible tanks with over exposed corals that are dying. the amount of money paid to learn how to adjust the LED properly might be much higher than buying the T5 lamps .

:headwally::headwally:

corals die and brown sand bed , cyano growing when i used hydra and radion. when i turned to T5 i go home to enjoy colours not a tank with alage problems. ppl tend to suggest bad husbandary but i can swear changing to T5 is the best decision that i made for my reefing hobby

i strongly believe that there are reefers who experienced the same thing .

 

[Rakie]

what ever . i am strong believer of T5. LED are meant for ppl who have a lot of time playing with settings and have a lot of money to burn when their corals die.

i understand that a lot of nice tank out there and a lot of horrible tanks with over exposed corals that are dying. the amount of money paid to learn how to adjust the LED properly might be much higher than buying the T5 lamps .

:headwally::headwally:

corals die and brown sand bed , cyano growing when i used hydra and radion. when i turned to T5 i go home to enjoy colours not a tank with alage problems. ppl tend to suggest bad husbandary but i can swear changing to T5 is the best decision that i made for my reefing hobby

i strongly believe that there are reefers who experienced the same thing .

I never said T5 was bad -- I'm saying the information you're giving about LED's is terrible. You do not need 2 Radion XR30's for a 24" tank.

T5 is very simple lighting, it's the current best lighting you can get -- nobody is disputing that. That said, I've never had issues with LED, plugged in and turned on instant success.

 

[ktownhero]

And i'm sure the mcdonalds cheese burgers look just like they do in real life as they do in the commercials, lol, videos can be edited, are often taken under specific lighting conditions (especially if being shot professionally) among other things. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear.

This is absurd.

 

[LXXero]

This is absurd.

how is it absurd?

okay, fine, i watched the video

in the video, the lights are side by side so they're not even lighting the same pieces of coral, you can't really see a direct comparison anywhere in the video other than the fact that the new light looks slightly brighter lighting the taller coral in a side by side shot. also the one thing they should have done, which is taken pictures of the tank with the new light vs the old light, centered, in the same position, they didn't do. they just kind of show them side by side and the new one looks a bit brighter.

okay, i mean, we sort of expected that much right? but without an apples-to-apples comparison, you can't really get that good of an idea of the total difference, its mostly just a guy reading off spec sheets while video overlays of graphs and stuff fly over the screen.

I don't think i've learned much that I couldn't have just read off the website, but again, that's not real world experience, that's not seeing if these have power supply issues or things burning out prematurely or whatever else could possibly go wrong with a brand new product. ecotech is a reputable enough company, i'm sure they'll fix any mistakes, but put it into perspective at least.

i honestly think watching the video possibly proved my point even more, that the video was shot to make it look in the best possible light, what else would you expect, they do want to sell these ya know? lol, but think about someone with a gen3 who might wanna upgrade to a gen4, this video might make this thing look like the best thing since sliced bread, when in reality it might only be a 5-10% difference. that's the kind of thing people spending the money will actually want to know...but we're not gonna find that out until we have more independent reviews.

 

[ReefCowboy]

What Ecotech should have done is produce testing results such as the one BRS did on Leds(52 weeks of reefing), where they show a tank ornament under some type of camera that captures light distribution at its surface... at this point people are skeptic about broad claims without backing tests before burning their cash on brand new fixtures. Part tests help, but I think people expect more at this point in time.

 

[Wazzel]

With a 4' x 2' tank you would need 2 xr30 that's 1600.... The same tank would take a 6 or 8 bulb T5 fixture. The matrix 2 8 bulb fixture is $900 and if you put ATI bulbs in it that's another $160 so you are already within $550 of the LED and haven't even plugged it in.
If you buy replacement bulbs just 4 times in the life of the light the cost is the same. That hasn't began to factor energy savings or other things that could need replaced with the T5 fixture.
It may take awhile but long term no way LED is not the cheaper option.

Now we can always factor in the fact LED is being upgraded so fast that you won't keep a single fixture long enough without upgrading to the latest and greatest. But that's not the LED's issue that's the reefer wanting new toys lol


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The start up and operating cost of all the light systems are approximately equal over a 4-5 year stretch. The caveat to that is you need to be starting from scratch and comparing lights of equal quality. It should not be your primary concern when choosing a light system.

I am an LED only user and have been really happy with them. On the flip side I have no overall negative issues with MH or T-5. All the systems have pros and cons.

 

[Wazzel]

what ever . i am strong believer of T5. LED are meant for ppl who have a lot of time playing with settings and have a lot of money to burn when their corals die.

i understand that a lot of nice tank out there and a lot of horrible tanks with over exposed corals that are dying. the amount of money paid to learn how to adjust the LED properly might be much higher than buying the T5 lamps .

:headwally::headwally:

corals die and brown sand bed , cyano growing when i used hydra and radion. when i turned to T5 i go home to enjoy colours not a tank with alage problems. ppl tend to suggest bad husbandary but i can swear changing to T5 is the best decision that i made for my reefing hobby

i strongly believe that there are reefers who experienced the same thing .

I have not played extensively with my LEDs or had corals die. I turned them on and made a few adjustments here and there, but nothing major.

 

[Wazzel]

I never said T5 was bad -- I'm saying the information you're giving about LED's is terrible. You do not need 2 Radion XR30's for a 24" tank.

T5 is very simple lighting, it's the current best lighting you can get -- nobody is disputing that. That said, I've never had issues with LED, plugged in and turned on instant success.

There is a chance you will need more than one on a 24" tank. I had to add a second hydra52 after a year to deal with shading. From what I have seen neither the Radions or the Hydras cover 24" in the short axis, especially if you have any kind of steepness in your scape..

 

[ktownhero]

how is it absurd?

okay, fine, i watched the video

in the video, the lights are side by side so they're not even lighting the same pieces of coral, you can't really see a direct comparison anywhere in the video other than the fact that the new light looks slightly brighter lighting the taller coral in a side by side shot. also the one thing they should have done, which is taken pictures of the tank with the new light vs the old light, centered, in the same position, they didn't do. they just kind of show them side by side and the new one looks a bit brighter.

okay, i mean, we sort of expected that much right? but without an apples-to-apples comparison, you can't really get that good of an idea of the total difference, its mostly just a guy reading off spec sheets while video overlays of graphs and stuff fly over the screen.

I don't think i've learned much that I couldn't have just read off the website, but again, that's not real world experience, that's not seeing if these have power supply issues or things burning out prematurely or whatever else could possibly go wrong with a brand new product. ecotech is a reputable enough company, i'm sure they'll fix any mistakes, but put it into perspective at least.

i honestly think watching the video possibly proved my point even more, that the video was shot to make it look in the best possible light, what else would you expect, they do want to sell these ya know? lol, but think about someone with a gen3 who might wanna upgrade to a gen4, this video might make this thing look like the best thing since sliced bread, when in reality it might only be a 5-10% difference. that's the kind of thing people spending the money will actually want to know...but we're not gonna find that out until we have more independent reviews.

Maybe you are conflating me with the OP, whose original comment was a bit overblown. I just think that is a very sensible video that in no way can be compared to a fast food hamburger ad. The upgrades are objective improvements, and it will be interesting to see how they pan-out in the real world. It's really that simple. I'm a big boy, I am capable of watching/reading promotional material and making my own decisions

 

[Squidmotron]

It's amazing how frequently any specialized topic about an LED lighting system is inundated with anti-LED ideological screed. Mostly overexaggerated, but more importantly... off-topic.

As far as the light spillage, this has been noted as well on the Ecotech forum. It could be a concern for people depending on where and how their lights are hung.

I'm very excited about the wider/spread coverage. It is the only thing I really would like to improve about my Radion system. For now, I plan to get exactly one of these units to replace one of my G3s and see how it goes.

 

[d2mini]

I think people forget (or are newbies and never had the experience) of what it was like running MH and T5.
Opening up a canopy was like pulling back the window curtain in a house that was built on the sun itself.
You either want the spread or you don't.
And until you have these over your tank and see what it's like in person, it's kinda pointless arguing about it.

 

[BrklynArch]

I think people forget (or are newbies and never had the experience) of what it was like running MH and T5.
Opening up a canopy was like pulling back the window curtain in a house that was built on the sun itself.
You either want the spread or you don't.
And until you have these over your tank and see what it's like in person, it's kinda pointless arguing about it.

Hey Dennis, are you running the new Gen4s or the Gen 3's?
Wasnt sure if you were kinda test driving the new lights for them.

 

[d2mini]

Hey Dennis, are you running the new Gen4s or the Gen 3's?
Wasnt sure if you were kinda test driving the new lights for them.

No, not yet.
Instead of starting my tank with beta G4's I opted to start with the G3's so I'd be able to compare to the production G4's later.
I should have them shortly after MACNA.

 

[nycreef]

Ive just got to chime in here which i rarely ever do but this thread caught my eye. Ive been all over in terms of lighting and still searching for the holy grail of lights. T5's are great for most if not all corals and ive had them from the start. I moved up to 400 Watt MH 10K with supplemental T5's super actinic blues and had the best growth and color. Problem was over kill on light and heat and bulb replacement. Then came the radion gen 1 then 2 the 3 and the pros. I went through all of then upgrade by upgrade and i was never able to hit a sweet spot with them for my corals and i found out why. Many factors but the biggest was not enough radions for my tank. i would need double what i had to properly give the corals a balanced light. they say it gives a 3x3 spread? Not even close. id say every radion gives less than 1/2 that unless you want to burn every coral directly under the radion puck and brown every coral away from the puck. I went back to MH's but this time 400 watt 20K with no T5's and my old radions for supplemental. Best of both worlds and now growing corals without all the headache of too much light too little light, wrong colors or too high in this color or that color, too confusing and corals as it is are hard to keep happy even with MH or T5's. Save your money and go with what tried and true. If i were to back to all LED it would have to be an LED that would fill my entire tank with all color LEDs from end to end with no gaps, basically a custom job.
My 2 cents for what its worth.

 

[horseplay]

If you have a 4'x2' tank you can buy an ATI 8 bulb fixture for $900 including bulbs. Two hanging wires and one cable, even spread of lights. Or you can buy 3 or 4 radions, a lot of wires and hanging cable. I splurged and bought the ATI hybrid fixture, comparable in price to a set of radions but only one set of cables. Much slicker looking IMO. What befuddle me is why eco tech does not make a LED fixture with similar footprint and with diodes spread out.

 

[d2mini]

What befuddle me is why eco tech does not make a LED fixture with similar footprint and with diodes spread out.

Poor color mixing?

 

[Wazzel]

What befuddle me is why eco tech does not make a LED fixture with similar footprint and with diodes spread out.

I suspect they worked into this form factor and have a significant investment in tooling. To change the layout would mean reinvesting in tooling that may not have paid for itself yet.

 

[Bpb]

I suspect they worked into this form factor and have a significant investment in tooling. To change the layout would mean reinvesting in tooling that may not have paid for itself yet.

That's a pretty insightful comment that is likely very true and not often realized


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[horseplay]

Radion G4 HEI Optics (Light Dispersing Domes) -- First step in true LED breakthrough

Poor color mixing?

This might be the Achilles heel of LED fixtures.

Light can only travel in straight lines. A point source no matter what lens is used will only result in a cone shaped illuminated area. If the cone diameter is bigger it allows better overlapping between adjacent pucks however this will result in more light being wasted (glare). T5 and MH do not have this problem because reflectors can be designed to direct the light down. Maybe a point LED puck with a reflector similar to those used by MH can solve the problem?