Remote Sump Room

fredknack

Premium Member
I have a question about the plumbing required to use an external shed for a sump room. I want the water to overflow from the tank, under the house, and then up and over the side of the sump in a shed outside.

Here is a diagram:
remote_sump.jpg


Can this work? Will the pressure from the overflow on the tank be enough to get the water up a foot or three to get up from under the house over the side of the sump?

If that works I figure I will put a couple of return pumps to get the water back.

Any advice would be very welcome.
 

ordy1

New member
The way I've been reading it, total head pressure is calculated by measuring your vertical runs and calculating the pressure loss from your fittings (elbows, unions, ball valves, etc.)

I don't see a problem with water getting to the sump. Your display is higher than the sump so gravity will work.

Only problem I see is those pipes exposed to the elements. I'd get some "Heatrace" and wrap those exposed lines with it and then throw a ton of insulation on them. I would also place a valve on that run of pipe, that's under the house, incase you ever need to get at it. You can always drain down from that point.

Use unions and isolation ball valves at the drain from the display and at the drain to the sump. Also use union's and isolation ball valves at your return pump. (isolation ball valves at the drains might be pushing it. You may want to skip this.)

I have my sump in my basement and my display upstairs in our den.
 

fredknack

Premium Member
Thanks Ordy. That is some solid advice about the unions and ball valves. I figure I will try to error on the side of over-insulating the pipes because it does freeze here once or twice a year.
 

fightingobblers

New member
That's pretty much how mine is run. I have approximately 20 feet of horizontal distance between my tank and my sump, which is in my garage
 

fredknack

Premium Member
Thanks fightingobblers. I am pretty stoked about having a remote room to get the noise out of my office/house and be able to stretch out a little.

Like you I would rather have the remote sump room in my garage. It is a more challenging run but possibly worth it. I am afraid that is my sump is to 'remote' I may not visit it enough.
 

bvanhoveln

New member
I would agree with your statement about having the sump 'too remote'. I recently moved from a 90 gal with a 30 gal sump in the stand to a 180 gal with my 90 as a sump behind a wall in a 'fish room'. Its not a far walk (but does not have direct access from the room which houses the main tank) - and its much more convienent to do maintanence etc. however, I have noticed I now only add fresh water from evaporation about 1 time every 2-3 days instead of every single day. It does not seem to be a problem due to the significant increase in water volume I am now running.

I can't even imagine how little I would want to go to my sump if I had to walk outside - of course I live in WI, so winters would be brutal.
 

atvdave

Premium Member
Yes it can work....

I have a similar set up on my tank. My sump is on the other side of my wall in my garage.

Also if your return pump line extends into your display tank too far, make sure you have a siphon break on the supply line. If not and your supply pump stops working or lose of power it will back siphon out your water into your sump and may over flow. It just depends how far the supply line's extend into your tank.
 

houser

Premium Member
fredknack,
I'm close to trying the same setup but haven't committed. <20' run under the house, water height difference between the tank (in house) and sump (in garage 2 steps down) will only be in the 16" range. The pipes have to drop under the house, stay essentially flat under the joists to the garage, then turn back up a little to get to the sump.

The only thing that worries me is stuff settling out in the pipes and not making it to the sump. I'm not sure how that will work.

Is there any specific overflow from the tank that works well in this setup and can deal with the upturn of 12+ inches before plunging back into the sump. Is that even a concern with the standard "silent" types?

I too would insulate the hell out of the pipes because I am a little worried they could get cold if the power was out for a while.
 

ordy1

New member
fredknack,
I'm close to trying the same setup but haven't committed. <20' run under the house, water height difference between the tank (in house) and sump (in garage 2 steps down) will only be in the 16" range. The pipes have to drop under the house, stay essentially flat under the joists to the garage, then turn back up a little to get to the sump.

The only thing that worries me is stuff settling out in the pipes and not making it to the sump. I'm not sure how that will work.

Is there any specific overflow from the tank that works well in this setup and can deal with the upturn of 12+ inches before plunging back into the sump. Is that even a concern with the standard "silent" types?

I too would insulate the hell out of the pipes because I am a little worried they could get cold if the power was out for a while.

Your tank sits 16" above your sump. Somewhere in that 20 foot run your pipe rises 12". Gives you 4" of back pressure from tank to your sump. Your display's water column has to develop enough vertical pressure to overcome that 12" rise. In time the pipe will develop deposits on the inside surfaces, thereby hindering flow even further. I would think that eventually your display will overflow.

Someone correct me on this. I know that gravity works but if I'm relying on gravity to push water up an incline I'm pretty sure I'll have to develop "more pressure". In a gravity fed system the only way to do that is to increase the vertical height of the water column.

Then again I have been known to over think these things and I could be wrong. I hope I'm not.
 

fightingobblers

New member
fredknack,
water height difference between the tank (in house) and sump (in garage 2 steps down) will only be in the 16" range.

That's the approximate distance from the first floor of your house to the proposed sump correct?

Don't forget to take into account the height of the tank/drain. If the stand is 3 feet tall, that's at least another 36" of head pressure, plus the height of the drain itself.

On mine, I put in a T where the drain line goes up to the sump with a union ball valve so I can discharge water from the tank without it having to go into the sump first, as well as in case I need to clean it out.
You can see some pics here
 

houser

Premium Member
16" is tank surface to sump surface. Yeah it's not a lot of vertical distance. I am worried about an overflow, or at least the real danger of getting one during power-up/restart. This sump would not be returning a large volume of water into the tank. Only on the order of 100GPH or so. I believe that would help me quite a bit. The tank I built has "extra" head space (1") in it to absorb the initial onslaught of water before the overflow and drain system kicks in. I think that would work.

I would also think periodic pipe maintenance would be in order. I was thinking you could valve it in such a manner to blow excess supply water back into the drain periodically to blow particulates out. Or inject excess supply water into the drain somehow to keep the particulates in suspension. Not sure how to pull that one off though without creating other issues.

I was planning on mocking something up outside in the driveway first with the equivalent piping configuration to see if it would even work. I've flooded the floor about 10yrs ago and have NO desire to do it again:sad2:
 
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