RO/DI vs bottled water

L

luvabunny

New member
For those of us who don't have an RO/DI unit (me), can anyone explain the difference between buying RO/DI from a local LFS, or getting bottled water from, say, Wal-Mart. I've never seen water from a LFS for under $1.00/gal, but you can get bottled water from Wal-Mart for .69/gal.

I've looked on all of the bottles, and none of them specifically say "phosphate or nitrate free", tho some do say "chlorine or flouride free." Is there a difference between what you can get at Wal-Mart vs what an RO/DI unit puts out? Is there really even a difference between the "naturally pure spring water" and "drinking water with minerals added?" What about that little machine that squirts water out and lets you fill your own bottles? Or even my little home Brita filter? Is the RO/DI water better than any of these, and why?

Again, not being a Rhodes scholar, please keep it simple. If I can get bottled water from Wal-Mart, and it is about the same as RO/DI, which one should I get? I know I used distilled for a long time in my baby seahorse tank, but then I read somewhere not to. I need to do a largish water change on all of my tanks, which is what is prompting these questions, but I'm not ready to go to the expense of a RO/DI unit just now.
 
I used to buy water for the Culligan machine at Walmart or the local grocery. I fought hair algae constantly. I started looking at the dates that the filters were changed on the machines...ususally, once per month. How do you know if this is sufficient?

I then started buying RO/DI from the lfs. I NEVER paid $1 per gallon for RO/DI at any lfs. If that's the going price, it's gone up. I paid $0.40 to $0.50 per gallon for it.

With that said, I was still spending $50 to $75 per month getting water. This was water + gas + whatever else I saw at the lfs that I bought but didn't really need. :)

RO/DI units are expensive up front, yes. You have to have a place to set them up, yes. You have to moniter your own water quality, yes. I still think it's the only way to go.

Ronnie
 
I can say that I bought water from ART for many months. Fresh DI water was around $3 I believe and premixed salt water was $5 approx from what I recall for 5 gallons. Not too bad really. I think Leighanne in Edmond has RO/DI for .60 cents a gallon, although I have never purchased it there. I picked up a 75 GPD RO/DI filter very cheap last month. It has been very nice not buying water every week. Although, I miss the regular stops at the fish store.
 
It depends on the method of filtration the store uses. It probably is RO or distilled water, since RO/DI will lack any TDS and isn't the best thing in the world to drink, taste or healthwise. If RO, which it probably is, then you'd be looking at a TDS range of probably 5-35.

The biggest deal is cost. Short-term, with only small needs, purchasing water is reasonable. But long-term, even with relatively small water needs, purchasing water over owning an RO/DI system doesn't make financial sense. You can buy a reasonably decent RO/DI unit on Ebay for about $80. If taken care of, the RO membrane should last years and years. I purchased one of those units several years ago along with a box of complete filters, paying about $120 for both. I was very liberal in changing the carbon and DI filters and that still lasted more than two years. Although this may not apply to you, the cost of gas and time may not be factored into getting that water.

IIRC, you are not on a municipal water supply, so your biggest RO/DI expense would be the very cheap sediment filter. The carbon filters would last for a very long time for you since they won't have to deal with chlorines or chloramines that could foul your membrane and burn through carbon. Although DI cartridges look like they cost a lot, a few members can get together and buy resin for very cheaply. Or you could buy a refillable cartridge and 4 resin changes for about $50 from AirWaterIce (a COMAS sponsor :D ). That would probably last me nearly two years and I go through 3 gallons of water a day just in top off.

There is also the convenience of having the system in the house. In an emergency, your only limitation to making water is the speed of the system.
 
While I appreciate all of these responses, they still don't really answer my original questions. I am not ready to purchase an RO/DI unit. As I said before, I am planning on a single large water change on my tanks, specifically the seahorse tank, which I am having some problems with right now, due to a bacterial infection brought in by an unquarantined WC fish. (I know, my bad, but it's already done, so now I have to clean up the mess.)

When I quoted the pricing of the LFS RO/DI water, you have to remember what part of town I am in. It is a major long drive to go to either Edmond or Norman, and I have only 1 - 5 gal container. That said, I did actually figure my time, gas and cost of more containers into the price - besides wanting to shop and spend while I am there.

Tim, I don't know what TDS is, so can't follow what those numbers mean. Also don't know what IIRC is, but I AM on a city water supply - OKC to be specific. I have always just used tap water, but since I am having issues on the seahorse tank, thought I would check into a possibly "better" water.

I'm sure that owning an RO/DI unit is better long term, and I probably should invest in one, but I'm not convinced yet of their usefulness. I am simply looking into my options for a one time change.

So, back to my original question. How do the bottled waters compare to RO/DI?
 
Bottled waters are slightly "worse" than RO/DI water, but drastically better than treated tap water. They have slightly more dissolved solids. It's best to use "Distilled" water. Distilled water is usually filtered first through Reverse Osmosis and then distilled through glass piping.

I don't recommend the use of the filtered water stations at stores because you don't know when the station was last serviced or if it was set up right in the first place. Heck, there was a horror story of someone with tank trouble that was using a water station. Come to find out, it was plumbed backwards. Basically, you can break it down like this

RO/DI: 0-10 ppm of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)
Distilled: 0-40 ppm
Store Water Station: Varies
Tap: Average is about 250 ppm. Here out of my faucet it's 660 ppm

In your case, April, I would just get the Distilled water. It's cheaper and your tanks don't have anything delicate enough for a few extra solids to hurt. Yes, I know seahorses are delicate, but in a different way. :D

If you have someone close to you or someone willing to come out with a TDS meter, ask them to test a sample of a Store's water station, distilled water, and your tap. The more you know the better. :)
 
I sometimes use bottled drinking/spring water from Wal-Mart if I don't have the ro hooked up and it is an emergency. I never had a problem with it.

Don't know if this helps but you can get a really good R/O off of ebay for a pretty fair price sometimes. I got an aqua safe systems for 79.95, but they have gone way up...

Kyle
 
I'm in Washington, but I battled OKC water for years---the contents are not good, ranging from arsenic (in Bethany at the time I was there) to some plastic compounds that are lethal, and we tried distilled: turned out the company that sold it occasionally used bottles that had been used for gasoline (you could smell it), and other things; and also let the collected nastiness it had just distilled out of the water trickle back down into the water on its way to bottling. In short, while I was there we finally settled on a 6 foot tall carbon cylinder in the garage and triple under sink filters and enough polypad to outfit the national aquarium and still fought it. Ro/di would have done the job of that monster cylinder and the rest. You have to change the filters on ro/di at least once a year, but once you have the equipment, 3 of the filters aren't that pricey. THe 4th is. But what you spend in lost specimens and the .69 cents a bottle once a week will add up in a year to a major chunk of change. Ro/di is actually cheaper in the long run, imho, and I'm up here in the land of glacier water.
 
I use Walmart Culligen machine water quite a bit, as I am also without an RO/DI unit. I have tested the TDS (total dissolved solids) and know that they register quite a bit better then tap water. Of course, water quality at different stores and over time at the same store may vary. These machines, just like our own RO/DI units, will only produce water as good as how we maintain them.

Generally speaking, however, I would say that water out of a culligen machine @ walmart is likely going to much better then tap water.
 
I don't know the effect on seahorses so I can't speak to that however, I was always told to stay away from distilled water because some of the systems use copper piping. Which for a tank with inverts would eventually kill them when its toxicity built up.

Cory
 
This sounds like a good opportunity to educate some of us at a meeting. Does anyone have a TDS Meter they could bring to a meeting? If so, maybe we could get some samples from different water sources and see what they read.

I know TDS stands for Total Disolved Solids and that you don't want them because they cause some bad algae problems, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

FWIW, I also got a RO/DI unit off of ebay last Nov. I love it. I was buying my water from Reefshop and was really going through some serious water changes (due to my mistakes, not their's) and it was getting expensive. I think at the time I figured out that the unit would pay for itself in 6-9 mo. However, I have seriously slacked off in my water changes and that time frame has increased, but I still love having it.
 
I assume that if Copper pipes leach copper into the water supply, then most tap water is likely to be unusable in a reef tank. Some builders still use Copper in the construction of new homes. I know I have copper pipes. Doh!
 
Almost all commercial and lab grade distillers no longer use copper piping. Most use glass, actually. I wanted to double check and I emailed a distilling company. Here is their reply.

----------------------------------------------------
From: info@purewaterinc.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:49 AM
To: Stevens, Travis
Subject: Re: Distiller Condenser Coil Question

Dear Travis:

Thank you for your interest in Pure Water and the opportunity to address your concern about copper. You can be assured that we DO NOT use any components in our distillation equipment the have copper or copper alloys that contact the distilled water. You are wise to ask as there may be copper nickel alloys in some distillers but NOT ours!

Sincerely,
Eldon Muehling
Regional Sales Mgr & Water Consultant

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stevens, Travis
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:09 AM
To: info@purewaterinc.com
Subject: Distiller Condenser Coil Question

Do your condenser coils, or any other part that comes in contact with the final product of water, contain or is comprised of copper?
 
Copper piping isn't as bad as all that. Relatively low amounts of copper is leached from copper pipes into the water. The copper that pipes are made if is pretty much insoluble. And in most cases, older pipes are better as they have developed a bacterial coating on the inside that blocks off most actual contact with the piping.

Of course, when possible, PVC is better. :)
 
I've got a TDS unit at the house for the meeting.
It came with my Air, Water, Ice RO/DI unit that I have.

Ray
 
Lots of knowledge to absorb here. I appreciate the input.

I am not specifically having any trouble in any of my tanks due to using the OKC water, but I am trying to make a healthier environment for the horses at the moment, as I realize their immune systems are fighting off bacteria. I have been told that using tap water will keep my nitrates high, as there are nitrates in tap water, so I figured I would go with something a little more healthy for them. (Sideways logic of drinking orange juice, instead of pop, when you feel bad!)

Guess I'm going to have to look into a RO/DI unit. Sure have spent enough on these horses. May as well keep them healthy.
 
Hifly is right. Just search the ebay user "filterdirect". He has 110 gallon per day, 5 stage, RO/DI units for Something like $99. I heard (and I don't know if it's true) that you can ask the guy to replace the RO Membrane for a 75 gpd cartridge that has better filtration and the guy will replace it for free. Like I said, it was rumor though.
 
April,

I bought a 6-stage unit from the guy Travis is talking about. With a TDS meter, it was under $150. That was about a year ago. I've also seen great deals on ebay from air water & ice, our club sponser. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

BTW, Tim...I like the sounds of a group buy on DI resin. Maybe something we could round up soon?

Ronnie
 
Just took a look myself. Wowzers - great prices. I would really love to buy from AirWaterIce.com, as I have bought from them before (not fr me, unfortunately) and they are great. Also, they support COMAS.

However, those ebay prices are great. I like the $100 systems they have for sale that includes the water tank and faucet sets for providing RO drinking water at the sink.

Hehe - that's also a way to get a spouse to support it even more. :)
 
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