Running a cold tank

[skimjim]

All my coral consists of LPS, Acans, Zoas, Palys, Chalices. most everything I have is listed on LiveAquaria as a coral to be kept at 72 to 78 degrees.

My fish are: clown tang, yellow tang, foxface, CB Butterfly, two clown damsels, cleaner wrasse, six chromis

My wife and I are getting beaten up on electricity bills during the cold months in southern Ohio. We keep the house around 66-68 during the Winter.

Any one have any comments or experience with keeping their tank at 72-73 degrees??? I have an Apex controller controlling four 100w heaters in a 180g display.






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[whosurcaddie]

I think coral and fish metabolic process slows down at lower temps but I'm not 100% positive about that.

Here is another thread about lower temperatures.http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2055423

Also a great article on temperature relating to our tanks.http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/100587-great-temperature-debate-part-iv.html

Edit: Cliffs Notes - Temperature is fundamentally important on coral reefs, and in our aquaria. Temperatures either too high or too low cause problems. We’ve also explored temperature regimes on reefs in nature and seen that some reefs tend to be a bit warmer and some tend to be a bit cooler. Some experience large annual temperature variation while others experience little variation. Nonetheless, most corals and other reef organisms tend to have thermal optima within the range of 77-82 °F, and which is the temperature range I suggest is likely to work best for most reef tanks. Since most aquaria house animals from different regions with somewhat different temperature tolerances, I’ve suggested that relatively safe upper and lower bounds for temperature in reef tanks are about 84 °F and 72 °F, respectively. While it is often a goal of many aquarists to maintain very stable temperatures, a little bit of temperature variation seems to be well tolerated by reef organisms, and may even be useful in promoting higher thermal tolerances in corals, reducing the risk of disaster in the case of high temperature stress. Organisms, including corals, tend to live closer to their upper temperature limits than their lower temperature limits, requiring us to be prepared to deal with high temperature stress in our aquaria, especially during the summer. Finally, I finished our discussion by addressing the effects of climate change on coral reefs and by encouraging everyone that cares about the future of coral reefs to help exert the political will needed to save them.

 

[username in use]

I run a nano at 72-73 degrees. I get decent growth out the corals. No fish in it, but the corals and cleanup crew are doing fine.

 

[fishgate]

400 watts is not enough for that tank. You need probably 2 300 watt heaters and maybe 3. 2 to 3 300 watt heaters will run less often than those 4 100 watters trying to maintain temp.

 

[HiFidelity]

hah I think this is the third thread I'm posting about this in... makes sense since much of the country is freezing.

Last year I moved my tank to the garage and granted it is not very cold here in California, but I'm on top of a hill facing the SF Bay so on some nights temp will drop to 40 or even high-30's (more rarely) and my garage at 4 am would probably be no more than a couple degrees warmer than outside but not by much.

My tank isn't huge, it's a 50G display + filtration. First cold week & I'm freaking out because my temps were dropping to 70 and even 68-69 very briefly so I would run a space heater overnight not long after I realized this is going to spike the heck out of my energy bill so I found a different solution. I insulated the tank on nights it sat in 30-something degree weather but overall I brought the tank temps down to 74-75 and usually if it cools it won't dip bellow 70. It's been a couple of months now & I have not observed any ill effects, corals still growing & still healthy. My fish, well they frequently surf my powerhead current for fun, my clowns even spawned & eggs hatched in these conditions so that's plenty active if you ask me.

I have learned from this experiment that the tank does perfectly fine in the lower range (72-75) but what will hurt your inhabitants is frequent temp swings, so fluctuating a couple of degrees withing a 73 average is fine, but 78 by day & 70 by night would certainly disrupt something or another and wild swings are to be the primary thing to avoid.

I hope this helped

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

as far as energy costs go, it doesn't matter if you run (4) 100 watt heaters constantly, or (2) 300 watt heaters 2/3 of the time to keep your temp in check. Your electric bill will be the same for both, though not having heaters running constantly may be better for the heaters themselves (if that's the case).

You can add insulation to the tank and that will keep more of the heat from the heaters in the tank, reducing your power consumption, but it could be unsightly basicaly wrapping a blanket around the tank/sump. kind of up to you, but it would work. you could even wrap some clear food wrap around the tank to help insulate it, but it would only help a little bit.

Another option would be to increase the temperature of the house. Of course this will also increase your electric bill, it would reduce the time that the tank heaters are on. The differance in amount saved and spent though would not make sence for this option as it would cost more to heat the house than the tank (besides, any heat lost from the tank is actualy heating up the air in the house).

Finaly would be your original though on lowering the tank temperature. I've run my tank at a few different temps, but only by a couple degrees. I've never noticed a differance between running it at 76 and 78, though I haven't tried low 70s. If you want to try it I'd go slow, only decreasing the tank temp by a degree every day or 2 just to be super safe and let the livestock aclimate. plus that would give you lots of time to notice any negative effects on the livestock, and at what temp the effect was noticed.

 

[fishgate]

as far as energy costs go, it doesn't matter if you run (4) 100 watt heaters constantly, or (2) 300 watt heaters 2/3 of the time to keep your temp in check. Your electric bill will be the same for both, though not having heaters running constantly may be better for the heaters themselves (if that's the case).

This is incorrect. Running 400 watts of heat may not and sounds like is not enough wattage to heat the tank to the set point. So the heaters are always on and consuming a continuous 400 watts. 600 (or 900) watts might be enough, so the heaters turn off, and aren't a constant draw on electric. Your electric bill will be MUCH lower if the heaters are not running all the time.

 

[planedoc]

It takes x amount of watts to heat a given amount of water. It does not matter if those watts come from a big heater or a small heater it's the same amount of energy.
It's like saying that if you fill your tank with a hose twice as big but only leave the water running half the time it will take less water to fill it.

 

[rwb500]

This is incorrect.

fishgate you are the one who is wrong.

4 * 100W * 100% duty cycle = 400W average

2 * 300W * 67% duty cycle = 400W average

but the math doesn't even matter-

Size or number of heaters has nothing to do with heating efficiency. End of story.

 

[fishgate]

fishgate you are the one who is wrong.

4 * 100W * 100% duty cycle = 400W average

2 * 300W * 67% duty cycle = 400W average

but the math doesn't even matter-

Size or number of heaters has nothing to do with heating efficiency. End of story.

Total # of watts does have to do with efficiency if your current heating total watts cannot maintain the desired tank temperature (or is barely there).

Average over what time frame? If you are running 400 watts * 24 hours a day (9600 watts) that is 3x the power usage compared to 600 watts running 6 hours a day (3600 watts).

I went through this same story when I got a single 300 watt heater for my 125 setup. The 300 watts simply could not keep the tank at the desired temperature so it was on ALL the time. I got another 250 watt heater and bingo, temperature was correct and the heaters were rarely on. When they do go on they stay on for maybe 5-10 minutes. Not longer.

 

[rwb500]

Total # of watts does have to do with efficiency if your current heating total watts cannot maintain the desired tank temperature (or is barely there).

Average over what time frame? If you are running 400 watts * 24 hours a day (9600 watts) that is 3x the power usage compared to 600 watts running 6 hours a day (3600 watts).

I went through this same story when I got a single 300 watt heater for my 125 setup. The 300 watts simply could not keep the tank at the desired temperature so it was on ALL the time. I got another 250 watt heater and bingo, temperature was correct and the heaters were rarely on. When they do go on they stay on for maybe 5-10 minutes. Not longer.

shaking my head... you are totally wrong. electrical heaters are 100% efficient. 100% of the electricity they consume is perfectly converted into heat in the aquarium water. if one of your heaters is not working efficiently then you need to pick it up off the floor and put it back into your tank. if one of your heaters is working more efficiently than normal, you have just figured out how to create energy. you will be a very rich man.

 

[theatrus]

shaking my head... you are totally wrong. electrical heaters are 100% efficient. 100% of the electricity they consume is perfectly converted into heat in the aquarium water. if one of your heaters is not working efficiently then you need to pick it up off the floor and put it back into your tank. if one of your heaters is working more efficiently than normal, you have just figured out how to create energy. you will be a very rich man.

Yup. Thats the good thing about heaters, the waste product (heat) is what we're after.

Your heater is heating something else than the water - is it heating the cord (I hope not)? Is it in good contact with the glass of your tank, and conducting half the heat to the room?

 

[fishgate]

shaking my head... you are totally wrong. electrical heaters are 100% efficient. 100% of the electricity they consume is perfectly converted into heat in the aquarium water. if one of your heaters is not working efficiently then you need to pick it up off the floor and put it back into your tank. if one of your heaters is working more efficiently than normal, you have just figured out how to create energy. you will be a very rich man.

I think what you are arguing is that 3 hours of 400 watts (ie: 4x100 watts) is equivalent power usage to 2 hours of 600 watts (ie: 2x300 watts). And I am not denying that. I am suggesting his 400 watts of heaters are not enough to heat the tank to the desired set point and never shut off. I suggested this in my first reply to this post and carried that theme to each subsequent post.

 

[Khemul]

Size or number of heaters has nothing to do with heating efficiency. End of story.

He isn't really talking about efficiency though. Bad phrasing. He's talking about adequacy. He's saying that 600W will work better, if the 400W isn't enough. Which isn't to say the 600W was more efficient, just that it works better since it actually works.

It may not necessarily be the issue here, since the OP didn't mention difficulty maintaining temperature. That Apex should be able to indicate whether or not that is an issue.

 

[rwb500]

no, he is talking about efficiency. he thinks he went from 300W on "ALL the time" to 550W "and the heaters were rarely on." his words. also he's multiplying watts with hours and still getting watts (it should be watt-hours, and yes it makes a difference).

he also directly stated that adding heaters will reduce your electric bill. there is no backing out of this one.

OP's question has been answered (72 degrees will be fine) and I have said enough to make sure anyone stumbling across this thread will not be grossly misinformed.

 

[jayball]

I think what you are arguing is that 3 hours of 400 watts (ie: 4x100 watts) is equivalent power usage to 2 hours of 600 watts (ie: 2x300 watts). And I am not denying that. I am suggesting his 400 watts of heaters are not enough to heat the tank to the desired set point and never shut off. I suggested this in my first reply to this post and carried that theme to each subsequent post.

In that case his temp would be dropping during the dayand increasing his wattage would make his bill go up.

 

[Timfish]

My experience aquariums run warmer than the rooms they are in. There may be aesthetic issues but you might try insulating the tank (if you have ventilation fans hook them up to the apex to turn them on only when the tank gets above 78-80 degrees). This sytem saw seasonal fluctuations of more than 12 degrees and the only problem I could tell was around 72 degrees the birdsnest would partially bleach out (actually looked prettier with less brown from drop in symbiotic dinoflagellates):

http://youtu.be/UjMFWHC4uBM

For refference, Kleypas, et al, looked at almost a thousand reefs and average minimum was 21 C or about 70 F:
http://www.ronshimek.com/references...onmental_Limits_To_Coral_Reef_Development.pdf

 

[fishgate]

no, he is talking about efficiency. he thinks he went from 300W on "ALL the time" to 550W "and the heaters were rarely on." his words. also he's multiplying watts with hours and still getting watts (it should be watt-hours, and yes it makes a difference).

he also directly stated that adding heaters will reduce your electric bill. there is no backing out of this one.

OP's question has been answered (72 degrees will be fine) and I have said enough to make sure anyone stumbling across this thread will not be grossly misinformed.

Well now I think you are purposely being obtuse.

Yes, if adding heaters allows the tank to get to the desired heating set point where it was not before then yes, adding heaters will reduce the electric bill. There is nothing to "back out" of. I have not changed my stance on the issue at all.

What I think happened is you read this post quickly, keyword scanned and missed the important part about the post, and were so excited to show your thimble full of knowledge about total watts/hours without fully understanding the content that you posted something that was not entirely correct. Now you are trying to save face by continuing with your incorrect analysis. Personally I think you would have looked better had you just manned up and admitted you read it wrong. :debi:

Oh well. Life goes on.

 

[rwb500]

Yes, if adding heaters allows the tank to get to the desired heating set point where it was not before then yes, adding heaters will reduce the electric bill. There is nothing to "back out" of. I have not changed my stance on the issue at all.

I'm sorry, you're right. I thought you were trying to back out of your previous statements but now it is clear that you are not. Could you please explain in detail how adding a heater can reduce someone's power bill? I am very curious.

 

[wolfblue]

If you are running 400 watts * 24 hours a day (9600 watts) that is 3x the power usage compared to 600 watts running 6 hours a day (3600 watts).

If 400 watts worth of heat stays on for 24 hours and averages temp x, then 600 watts of heat will need to run 16 hours to average the same temp.