SAD- NO Chiller-Fish and corals all DIED :-(

[dkeller_nc]

Leaving a chiller on in the same room as the tank is counter productive. The heat removed by the chiller goes ditectly into the room causing the chiller to work harder. This ultimatly raises the room temp as well as the tanks. You need an AC unit to cool the room and fans over the tank. Plenty of window units have set temps on them now so they dont run constantly.

Exactly. There is a flaw in logic being discussed on this thread that relates to thermodynamics. Specifically, while a chiller can be used to move heat from the tank to the air in the room, this same heat must then be removed by the house AC to the outdoors.

It's true that if the house is extremely poorly insulated, is very large, or has air leaks to the outside (e.g., a window is open), then the overall heat gain by sources other than the tank will mean that the house AC has to remove considerably more than a chiller would use to keep the tank temperature below 82 deg F or so.

However, even window unit ACs are quite a bit more efficient than a tank chiller, and if one is running a tank chiller in addition to wanting to be reasonably comfortable when one gets home from work, then the heat put out by the tank equipment has to be moved twice - transferred once from the tank water to the room, and then again from the room air to the outdoors. Since no refrigeration unit is ever more than perhaps 50% efficient, the costs are going to go up very quickly.

Keep in mind that while ice can be used to keep a tank cool in an emergency, it takes a lot of ice and the tank temp has to be monitored constantly so that the ice can be inserted/removed as needed to prevent the tank from going well below the lower temp tolerance of the animals.

Roughly speaking, one gallon of ice that melts in 8 hours is the equivalent of 44 watts of power. So it would take quite a bit of ice to effectively remove the heat typically generated by even a small reef tank.

In contrast, one gallon of water evaporated from the tank in 8 hours is the equivalent of 297 watts.

So you can see why most of us choose to maximize evaporation during the summer months.

 

[aquaskilz]

Thanks again guys for ur Dialogue. KC I accept ur apology and I do too apologize. But u need to read jscarlata comment. Im a 45 year old grown man ok. Dont scold me. Of course I should have planned better thats obvious but if you're perfect congratulations. As far my dog she is fine (just to let u know I do have a German Shepard) my Tank is in part of my house that just got extremely warm and I just didnt see it coming. A valuable mistake that I MUST PAY FOR-NO ONE ELSE! I will take ALL Your advice into consideration. I really do appreciate your feedback and I thank you again. Thanks for understanding jscarlata and humaguy.

 

[aquaskilz]

Kyle_ GREAT ADVICE TOO ...THANKS! P.BOAT JIM...looking into getting an A/C for that room THANKS!!

 

[kclewis]

I never said I was perfect and a 45 year old man should know better than to make a comment like stick to farming or if you're perfect congratulations. My advice may be the best you have received. If you cannot provide a suitable habitat for a reef tank you will find yourself asking the what's wrong I killed all my livestock again question. I never meant to scold anyone. I was just providing a simple, logical answer to a question presented before the group as a whole. I'm happy you have a Shepard. They are good dogs I have two of them but it was an analogy.

 

[SweesFeesh]

Here in arizona it gets to 120. I just leave off the lid and have an industrial fan blowing on the tank. My tank stays about 80.

 

[d2mini]

If you cannot provide a suitable habitat for a reef tank you will find yourself asking the what's wrong I killed all my livestock again question.

:deadhorse1:

 

[TheRuss]

Sorry to hear that...

 

[sslak]

Define "open system". I run a canopy with two 120mm computer fans tied to my temp controller. If the temp goes over 82 in the tank, the fans turn on, exhausting head from the hood, if it hits 84 all the lights turn off. I evap about 1 gallon per day on my 58 Oceanic, I also run A/C.

Your tank hitting 90 probably shouldn't have killed everything immediately, my biocube hit 92 when I was a noob and had a heater malfunction. Didn't lose anything, I cooled by floating ziploc bags full of ice when I got home.

If the ambient temp was 90, how hot did the water actually get?

As others have said...you have to plan in advance. I can't imagine why you didn't expect it to ever get hot... Honestly if you can't afford to run the A/C at least to keep ambient around 80, then you probably shouldn't have a tank because a chiller is gonna cost just as much to run (unless maybe your house is huge..seems unlikely in NYC).

Interesting thing about chillers, they don't make heat disappear, they MOVE heat from the water, to the air. Where do you think the heat from the chiller goes? Into the room. Which heats up the tank. Which causes the chiller to run more, which heats up the room even more, which heats up the tank.....etc.

 

[Diceman]

I have to say kclewis, it isn't so much what you said, but how you said it. I read it and you may as well have called the poor guy a jackass retard.
Simple fact is the guy wants a tank, it was a accident and now he wants some advice, not scolding. Hasn't he suffered enough. I mean he is here on this forum asking for help, not trying it again the old way so he can lose more live stock.
God man, why are people like this, if you don't have a good answer or are "tired" of all the stupid questions from us rookies, then please, feel free to not post a reply.

 

[Diceman]

While true, you're original comment wasn't all that helpful.
At least the OP is on here admitting his mistake and looking for a solution. Give him a break. Live and learn.

Well put.

 

[KeepNitReel]

Thank u all for ur responses I love all u guys!! The temp went up in my house. We had a minor heat wave in NYC last week (above 90 degrees). I use a Mag 5 water pump in my 15 gal sump. I do have an A/C but i cant run it all day electric is high in NYC ( like everything else). My LED's do not generate much heat (and they are elevated 6" above my tank) and if I put fans i would have to make it an open system which will cause high evap. I think a chiller may be my only option. wada ya think? @ KClewis- you give horrible advice even the highest of experts in this field experience some sort of lost. Stick to farming

So your system is not open? You have glass lids or something on top? Take em off, throw some clip on fans & get a ATO.
Had the same thing happen to me in march, the temp went from the 40-50's to 86 the next day. It had just snowed real bad the week before. Sugar Honey Ice Tea, happens.

 

[d2mini]

So your system is not open? You have glass lids or something on top? Take em off, throw some clip on fans & get a ATO.
Had the same thing happen to me in march, the temp went from the 40-50's to 86 the next day. It had just snowed real bad the week before. Sugar Honey Ice Tea, happens.

Good catch! And great advice.
No glass tops on a sw tank. Too much heat, the salt will constantly cover the glass blocking light transmission, not enough gas exchange.
ATO is almost a necessity with a reef and can be done on the cheap.

 

[kclewis]

All I'm pointing out is a temperature mistake is a very avoidable mistake. Basic 101 of reefing. If you think I'm beating a dead horse than I'm going to beat a dead horse. A 45 gallon tank doesn't reach 90 degrees in a short amount of time. Where was this question when the tank temp was rising? All of the positive posts could have helped save the livestock. I would have been more than happy to help. Isn't this site supposed to promote responsible reefing? If not then I'm in the wrong place.

 

[humaguy]

If this was a dog and he said I left it in the car with the windows rolled up and it died, we would be calling the police for animal cruelty.

Sorry if I take this to be the same situation. And I am sorry to the OP for my statements.

Humaguy we in indy experience the similar situations like power outages. I have a small generator and several battery operated air pumps for these situations. I understand you have to adapt to mother nature. You have to admit with being a member since 06 that reading these stories are troubling.

what's troubling is the way people are making such definite and absolute statements and imo, they were unnecessary...you can't plan for a lot in this hobby...when people say not having a chiller is improper planning and things were not thought out it is simply silly...we live and learn and hopefully learn from our mistakes and lol, after 30 years in salt I still occasionally make em...
and I have never owned a chiller and never even considered one on my last tank build, the build thread is in here...sometimes people are slow and resistant to assist and quick and eager to attack, that I find troubling...
...you can't keep a generator in a nyc apt...
just my .02...

 

[Diceman]

All I was saying is was more how you said it. You had a good point, but why beat him when he is down? We do not know all the circumstances.
That's all I was trying to point out. Nothing against you or him.
Hopefully he will take this good advice for his next reef.

 

[humaguy]

All I'm pointing out is a temperature mistake is a very avoidable mistake. Basic 101 of reefing. If you think I'm beating a dead horse than I'm going to beat a dead horse. A 45 gallon tank doesn't reach 90 degrees in a short amount of time. Where was this question when the tank temp was rising? All of the positive posts could have helped save the livestock. I would have been more than happy to help. Isn't this site supposed to promote responsible reefing? If not then I'm in the wrong place.

so many unknown variables...did the op get stuck in traffic, get tied up at the office, ran late due to some last min errand?
we all do the best we can...sometimes things happen...but I would be willing to be this does not happen again...

 

[humaguy]

Good catch! And great advice.
No glass tops on a sw tank. Too much heat, the salt will constantly cover the glass blocking light transmission, not enough gas exchange.
ATO is almost a necessity with a reef and can be done on the cheap.

with the caveat that depending on livestock you may need something on it, egg crate, mesh, netting etc...you don't want to remove a glass top and lose a fish to a carpet anemone...

 

[KeepNitReel]

All I'm pointing out is a temperature mistake is a very avoidable mistake. Basic 101 of reefing. If you think I'm beating a dead horse than I'm going to beat a dead horse. A 45 gallon tank doesn't reach 90 degrees in a short amount of time. Where was this question when the tank temp was rising? All of the positive posts could have helped save the livestock. I would have been more than happy to help. Isn't this site supposed to promote responsible reefing? If not then I'm in the wrong place.

I'm assuming that the OP was at work when the temp was rising, that's what most people do during the day.
I had a tank that went from 79 to 86 I'm less than 4 hours. I come home for lunch everyday and caught it but not before losing a kole tang & lemon peel angel. Carried my jacket with me that morning because it just snowed the week before & the day before was in the late 40's. Central unit was still set to heat because of the bad weather.
Maybe if I would have watched the weather report I would've set the central unit to AC, my fault, lesson learned.
Monday morning quarter backing doesn't help. Would've could've should've, lets deal with now

 

[cakemanPA]

You are beating a dead horse, and doing it not all that nicely considering the OP was asking for help and not arguing about the advice he was given. OBTW a 45 gallon tank will heat up in a hurry. I had it happen with a 90 gallon tank with a chiller. The heater/chiller controller failed. 95 degrees outside not in the forecast, windows open, no chiller. Between noon and 4:30 in the evening, my tank went from 78 degrees to 89 degrees. I now run a controller on my tanks so I can remotely monitor my tank.

A room a/c and a reef controller

All I'm pointing out is a temperature mistake is a very avoidable mistake. Basic 101 of reefing. If you think I'm beating a dead horse than I'm going to beat a dead horse. A 45 gallon tank doesn't reach 90 degrees in a short amount of time. Where was this question when the tank temp was rising? All of the positive posts could have helped save the livestock. I would have been more than happy to help. Isn't this site supposed to promote responsible reefing? If not then I'm in the wrong place.

 

[kclewis]

Cakeman 2.5 degrees a hour
Keepnitreel 1.75 a hour

I guess I don't consider that a rapid change.

In both cases it took hours to reach dangerous. Keepnitreel you just backup my initial claim in you had planned for temp in setup not an after thought or maybe not even at all.