scolley's Big Little Nano – yet another build thread
- Thread starter scolley
- Start date
girlygears13
Member
*biting my nails* How did it go?
We have separation from the booster rockets. All inhabitants safely in the trash can. 
The old tank is ready for tear down
And the new tank is ready for parts from the old tank to be plumbed in.
Actually it all went in two phases. Last night - after lights out - I got most of the LPS and a small amount of live rock. Night was better because they tend to contract at night. This morning I got the SPS, fish, inverts and remaining live rock. It would have been a complete piece of cake except one anemone - the rock flower - would not detach. Took a few hours to get it to let go. Ice on the foot did NOT work for me. Just a power head blasting on it, and prodding at the foot.
The three layer egg crate in the trash can is less than perfect too. Since corals are ON the live rock, corals are removed BEFORE most of the live rock. That means that when all corals were out, I had rock to pull. But in the trashcan, the rock was intended for the bottom, under the three suspended layers of egg crate. So that meant briefly pulling the egg crate out - with corals sitting on it - putting in the last of the rock - and then putting the egg crate back in the water. Same thing will happen when I'm putting the new tank up. I'll have to remove the egg crate to remove the rock long before I'm ready for the corals.
I knew this would happen, but it does demonstrate that the egg crate idea is far from perfect as an interim holding area - as it requires removal of the corals not once, but twice, from the water before they finally get to their new home.
That said, it appears to have been a low stress event. Little to no slime. And all corals look happy in the trash can. Now time to tear down the old tank. :thumbsup:
So far, so good.
My guess? Two days.
The old tank is ready for tear down
And the new tank is ready for parts from the old tank to be plumbed in.
Actually it all went in two phases. Last night - after lights out - I got most of the LPS and a small amount of live rock. Night was better because they tend to contract at night. This morning I got the SPS, fish, inverts and remaining live rock. It would have been a complete piece of cake except one anemone - the rock flower - would not detach. Took a few hours to get it to let go. Ice on the foot did NOT work for me. Just a power head blasting on it, and prodding at the foot.
The three layer egg crate in the trash can is less than perfect too. Since corals are ON the live rock, corals are removed BEFORE most of the live rock. That means that when all corals were out, I had rock to pull. But in the trashcan, the rock was intended for the bottom, under the three suspended layers of egg crate. So that meant briefly pulling the egg crate out - with corals sitting on it - putting in the last of the rock - and then putting the egg crate back in the water. Same thing will happen when I'm putting the new tank up. I'll have to remove the egg crate to remove the rock long before I'm ready for the corals.
I knew this would happen, but it does demonstrate that the egg crate idea is far from perfect as an interim holding area - as it requires removal of the corals not once, but twice, from the water before they finally get to their new home.
That said, it appears to have been a low stress event. Little to no slime. And all corals look happy in the trash can. Now time to tear down the old tank. :thumbsup:
Sorry! Maybe I should not have posted! Did not mean to create undue anxiety. But thanks for caring!
So far, so good.Hard to say. Depends on how long it takes to tear down the old, plumb reused parts into the new, set up rockscape, lay down sand, and give sand a chance to settle.
My guess? Two days.
iwishtofish
Active member
Looks like a great job, so far! I would have had a multitude of disasters by this point!
Retro rockets firing. Original tank torn down and removed.
Tomorrow is going to be the BIG day. Not much to see, just the million little details around hooking the new system up, plumbed, etc. Hopefully the preparation will have helped a LOT. But I'll be stunned (thrilled - but stunned) if a few unexpected things do not pop up to cause decent sized problems, if not a significant delay.
Fingers crossed.
Thanks. But that's the funny thing about planning IMO. You can never anticipate everything - just a lot of things. You don't know what you don't know. So instead of a multitude of disasters, hopefully I'll cut down to just two or three.
Tomorrow is going to be the BIG day. Not much to see, just the million little details around hooking the new system up, plumbed, etc. Hopefully the preparation will have helped a LOT. But I'll be stunned (thrilled - but stunned) if a few unexpected things do not pop up to cause decent sized problems, if not a significant delay.
Fingers crossed.
JasonBJones
New member
Glad to see it coming along. All looks well.
By the way, I would not worry too much about the corals being out of water. This happens in nature with many species for long periods of time. In fact, I ship all my acros in a ziplock bag and only a moist paper towel. Granted this does not apply to all corals, but small amounts of time out of water are generally no problem (sponges being the exception).
An couple of interesting reads on the topic:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/9/short
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php
By the way, I would not worry too much about the corals being out of water. This happens in nature with many species for long periods of time. In fact, I ship all my acros in a ziplock bag and only a moist paper towel. Granted this does not apply to all corals, but small amounts of time out of water are generally no problem (sponges being the exception).
An couple of interesting reads on the topic:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/9/short
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php
Draft placement
Draft placement
Thanks for the kind words folks!
As I busily try to get things hooked up, here's a small amusement regarding placement. Thought it might be fun to see how close my final aquascape comes to what it planned. But a few caveats...
Draft placement pic
A Placement Key to help identify what's what in the pic...
Though I'm worry less about the acros than some of the LPS. When they are all engorged (like the brains for instance), it's got to be rough on them to be abruptly removed from the water. That said, I just checked and my open brain is looking pretty happy in the trash can.
Draft placement
Thanks for the kind words folks!
As I busily try to get things hooked up, here's a small amusement regarding placement. Thought it might be fun to see how close my final aquascape comes to what it planned. But a few caveats...
- This is a DRAFT. So please don't hold me to it.
- There is more rock (from the original tank)that will go in the tank. This is is just a pic with the new rock.
- The pic is AWFUL in that it does not show the actual shape of those two large rock formations. They both have a beautiful slope, at about at 60 degree angle, getting higher as it progress from front to back.
- I don't have all the livestock at present. But do have most.
Draft placement pic
A Placement Key to help identify what's what in the pic...
Thanks. Will read that when time permits. Thank you.
Though I'm worry less about the acros than some of the LPS. When they are all engorged (like the brains for instance), it's got to be rough on them to be abruptly removed from the water. That said, I just checked and my open brain is looking pretty happy in the trash can.
Uh oh...
Uh oh...
Houston, we have a problem. The cauls I had to add to stiffen the stand panels have taken their toll. Though a 1/2" brace on each inside panel of the stand - plus the same on the underside of the electronics shelf - may not sound like much, it has added up.
Before I added the cauls, things JUST fit. But not now. The SQWD had to go. No room for it. I was hoping I could figure out a way, but it didn't work. That said, I was worried this might happen, and losing alternating flow on the two return lines is an acceptable loss. Having two MP10s creating alternating flow should more than compensate. Still, its a compromise I sought to avoid.
The wet section of the stand is about an hour's work from being finished. Tomorrow - the electronics shelf.
Uh oh...
Houston, we have a problem. The cauls I had to add to stiffen the stand panels have taken their toll. Though a 1/2" brace on each inside panel of the stand - plus the same on the underside of the electronics shelf - may not sound like much, it has added up.
Before I added the cauls, things JUST fit. But not now. The SQWD had to go. No room for it. I was hoping I could figure out a way, but it didn't work. That said, I was worried this might happen, and losing alternating flow on the two return lines is an acceptable loss. Having two MP10s creating alternating flow should more than compensate. Still, its a compromise I sought to avoid.
The wet section of the stand is about an hour's work from being finished. Tomorrow - the electronics shelf.
Sinclair81
New member
This is one sweet build, kudos to you for taking the time to put it all together. Maybe one suggestion for your uh-oh, what if you put some walls up on your shelf to increase the surface area you have to mount on. If not I may not understand the full problem, but good luck, lookin forward to pics!
Thanks Sinclair81. That's a great suggestion. Unfortunately mounting space is not my problem. It's horizontal space between the top of the sump and the electronics shelf. A diagram would be best, but no time for that now. So I'll list all the things that are taking up that small amount of space...
It's crowded. And that does not include the space taken up by the 5 liquid lines from their John Guest bulkhead connections on the back of the stand to the sump; RO/DI water, new salt water, Ca solution, Alk solution, and Mg solution.
One possible solution would have been to mount the SQWD vertically and not horizontally. But that would have put much of the SQWD under the surface of the sump water (refugium section). Technically that works, but it just offends me aesthetically.
This is a compromise that I can work on changing out in the future, if not having that alternating return flow really bothers me. For now, I've gotta move on to other matters... can't stop thinking about those unlit corals in the trash can. Going to have to provide them light soon - whether over the trash can, or in their new home.
- A pipe from the return pump that Tee's out to the two return bulkheads on the back of the stand. That pipe is much longer than it needs to be to accommodate a section of flimsy silicone tubing to dampen pump vibration. This is the line of tubing that needed the SQWD.
- At the bottom of the main return pipe - where it would connect with the pump - is an extra T. That Tee connects to a pipe that carries water over to the Algae Turf Scrubber (ATS) on the opposite side of the sump. That too is longer than it needs to be to accommodate more vibration damping silicone. It also has a large, bulky gate valve to fine tune water volume to the ATS.
- A pipe from the chiller pump to the chiller out bulkhead in the back of the stand. This too is very long to accommodate a length of silicone tubing.
- A tube in the middle (refugium) section connecting the drain pump to the drain bulkhead on the back of the stand.
- The skimmer collection cup take up a lot of space above the sump.
- The ATS pipe and algae mat screen hanging from it.
- The ATS LED light.
- The space that must be allowed between the ATS algae mat and the light that illuminates it.
- Room for a sump overhead light (yet to be mounted).
It's crowded. And that does not include the space taken up by the 5 liquid lines from their John Guest bulkhead connections on the back of the stand to the sump; RO/DI water, new salt water, Ca solution, Alk solution, and Mg solution.
One possible solution would have been to mount the SQWD vertically and not horizontally. But that would have put much of the SQWD under the surface of the sump water (refugium section). Technically that works, but it just offends me aesthetically.
This is a compromise that I can work on changing out in the future, if not having that alternating return flow really bothers me. For now, I've gotta move on to other matters... can't stop thinking about those unlit corals in the trash can. Going to have to provide them light soon - whether over the trash can, or in their new home.
ESV salt complications
ESV salt complications
Here's a problem I saw coming and planned on. But IMO it's worth sharing with the community...
I use ESV Salt mix. I love it. But it is more complicated to mix. You can read all about it in my thread here. It's harder than normal because first, you mix four compounds; two solid, two liquid, instead of the typical salt mix with only one compound to mix. You get used to it. The other complication is that you really need to know your actual volume of RO/DI before you begin. Generally that's easy for me, because I know EXACTLY how much RO/DI is in my mixing station, so I know exactly how much of each of the four compound I need to mix in. But not now.
I do not know what the actual volume of my new system will be. With most salts that's not such a big deal. You would make the systems near full with RO/DI - add a bit less salt than you need - mix - test specific gravity - add a bit more - test - repeat until done.
With the ESV - to do the same thing - I'd need to fill the system with RO/DI and mix as if I had (for instance) 30g of water. Mix. Then test SG. But I won't really have any idea how much to more to add. Maybe (for instance) add the four compounds as if I had an additional 2 gallons of water? Then test, and repeat until done. That's a lot of testing and compound measuring.
Instead I'm taking a different approach. My mixing station has two reservoir. A mixing reservoir, and a fresh salt reservior. Both hold about 12 gallons. So I've got the fresh salt reservoir filled (12g), and am mixing another 12 in the mixing reservoir. When that's finished, I'll empty those into another trash can, and make up two more batches of salt. And that's takes about 24 hours. So I guess that means - at best - I'm 24 hours away from having enough salt water.
Would have been simpler with another salt I think.
ESV salt complications
Here's a problem I saw coming and planned on. But IMO it's worth sharing with the community...
I use ESV Salt mix. I love it. But it is more complicated to mix. You can read all about it in my thread here. It's harder than normal because first, you mix four compounds; two solid, two liquid, instead of the typical salt mix with only one compound to mix. You get used to it. The other complication is that you really need to know your actual volume of RO/DI before you begin. Generally that's easy for me, because I know EXACTLY how much RO/DI is in my mixing station, so I know exactly how much of each of the four compound I need to mix in. But not now.
I do not know what the actual volume of my new system will be. With most salts that's not such a big deal. You would make the systems near full with RO/DI - add a bit less salt than you need - mix - test specific gravity - add a bit more - test - repeat until done.
With the ESV - to do the same thing - I'd need to fill the system with RO/DI and mix as if I had (for instance) 30g of water. Mix. Then test SG. But I won't really have any idea how much to more to add. Maybe (for instance) add the four compounds as if I had an additional 2 gallons of water? Then test, and repeat until done. That's a lot of testing and compound measuring.
Instead I'm taking a different approach. My mixing station has two reservoir. A mixing reservoir, and a fresh salt reservior. Both hold about 12 gallons. So I've got the fresh salt reservoir filled (12g), and am mixing another 12 in the mixing reservoir. When that's finished, I'll empty those into another trash can, and make up two more batches of salt. And that's takes about 24 hours. So I guess that means - at best - I'm 24 hours away from having enough salt water.
Would have been simpler with another salt I think.
My time estimates are horrible. Last nite I said I had about an hour of wet section work to go. Well that was more like 4 or 5. Now I think I've got about an hour left on the electronics shelf. Wonder how long that will take?
When that's done I can move the tank and stand into its spot in our family room, and begin hook ups and filling with water. Once the water comes up to proper temp, and all systems functioning properly, I'll move in the rock and finalize rockscaping. Only then can I add sand. And after that settles... Livestock!
Could be a delay in progress though. My sweetie's getting cabin fever, so may take a break to go have fun with her.
So I've dragged a big light out if the attic to provide the critters a bit of light. More pics when I finish the electronics shelf.
When that's done I can move the tank and stand into its spot in our family room, and begin hook ups and filling with water. Once the water comes up to proper temp, and all systems functioning properly, I'll move in the rock and finalize rockscaping. Only then can I add sand. And after that settles... Livestock!
Could be a delay in progress though. My sweetie's getting cabin fever, so may take a break to go have fun with her.
So I've dragged a big light out if the attic to provide the critters a bit of light. More pics when I finish the electronics shelf.
prjct92eh2
New member
I'm the same way haha. Good to hear things are going smoothly other than the SQWD.
Yes - I should have mentioned... All electronics have gone according to plan. Glad I had that diagram to work off of. With that in hand, it went like clockwork. In fact the only thing that has not gone according to plan was where I did not have a plan - no clear diagram - for the internal plumbing. I've also made some updates to my project plan - deciding to do things in a different order than originally intended. However, MOST of that was just due to setting up the plumbing and electronics before moving the stand into it's final position, rather than doing all that after the final move.
Am indeed taking the day off to have fun for a day with my honey - Maureen the Hobby Tolerant. But you know what they say, "Happy wife, happy life".
Have a couple 65w PC Actinics over the corals now. Should help hold off coral starvation. And by the time I resume work this time tomorrow, should have more than enough new salt water made up.
What I'm about out of is RO/DI to wash sand with. So I guess I'll wash with tap, apply dechlor to it, then soak/rinse with some of my excess salt water.
More tomorrow when I finish my last "hour" of electronics, before moving the gear into place and begin hooking things up.
Am indeed taking the day off to have fun for a day with my honey - Maureen the Hobby Tolerant. But you know what they say, "Happy wife, happy life".
Have a couple 65w PC Actinics over the corals now. Should help hold off coral starvation. And by the time I resume work this time tomorrow, should have more than enough new salt water made up.
What I'm about out of is RO/DI to wash sand with. So I guess I'll wash with tap, apply dechlor to it, then soak/rinse with some of my excess salt water.
More tomorrow when I finish my last "hour" of electronics, before moving the gear into place and begin hooking things up.
BFO - Inverts don't stay where you put them...
BFO - Inverts don't stay where you put them...
OK, this is a Blinding Flash of the Obvious (a BFO), I know, but it's worth pointing out...
In the pic below is a rock flower anemone that I put in a cup full of sand (top right), with as much light as any coral was getting. Well obviously that was not enough for the nem, and he has been on a non-stop patrol for more light/better flow. Wow. Why was I stupid enough to think it would stay in a cup?
To make matters worse, at the bottom of the trash can are 2-3 additional corals that are no longer pegged in the egg crate, and have fallen to the bottom. Why? Because I've got two - not just one - serpent stars that are happy to cruise their new home, and knock over whatever gets in their way.
Can I blame them? Of course not! It's my bad planning. That's why I'm sharing it here. So that if you repeat this little exercise, you might not be so foolish.
We don't know what we don't know.
BFO - Inverts don't stay where you put them...
OK, this is a Blinding Flash of the Obvious (a BFO), I know, but it's worth pointing out...
In the pic below is a rock flower anemone that I put in a cup full of sand (top right), with as much light as any coral was getting. Well obviously that was not enough for the nem, and he has been on a non-stop patrol for more light/better flow. Wow. Why was I stupid enough to think it would stay in a cup?
To make matters worse, at the bottom of the trash can are 2-3 additional corals that are no longer pegged in the egg crate, and have fallen to the bottom. Why? Because I've got two - not just one - serpent stars that are happy to cruise their new home, and knock over whatever gets in their way.
Can I blame them? Of course not! It's my bad planning. That's why I'm sharing it here. So that if you repeat this little exercise, you might not be so foolish.
We don't know what we don't know.
Major Milestone Accomplished
Major Milestone Accomplished
The Eagle has landed! :bounce3::bounce3::bounce3:
Here's the tank, in its final position, ready for salt water and rockscaping. Wow! This took so much longer than I anticipated! The tasks in my plan were pretty good. But my time estimates were total garbage. Between starting with an empty stand (bulkheads installed and tested) and having the stand built out and tested, I figure about three 10-12 hour days. It feels great to finally have that past me.
Most systems have been tested. I think the only exception is the Osmolator, which I was waiting for final aquascaping and sand. I don't want anything making decisions for me about the need for new RO/DI until I'm through taking things in and out of the tank (changing water levels).
That last hour (estimated time) of electronic shelf work took almost exactly 4 hours. Then there was refilling with water and testing all the systems (most of them anyway). Glad I did that, as I had mislabeled a couple of electrical cords, and had them plugged in wrong. And I also made some minor tweaks to my electrical design (mostly swapping components between the Power Bar and the DC4).
Wet compartment
You'll note that on the left side "“ the drain from DT side "“ there is no ATS algae matt. Just a DIY LED light on the side. And also in the middle section is hanging a tube with a union connector going nowhere. That's because I've left the ATS out for now. It will be hooked up the very last. On the left top of the the wet compartment you can see four brass hooks for hanging. Two for the FTS, and one for its acrylic splash screen. The FTS algae matt is obviously alive, and to help keep it that way, it will remain in the trash can until pretty much everything else is in.
Electronics door and shelf
If you look closely, you may see that that the Vortech MP10s are not plugged in. One has not yet been "œprogrammed" into the system "“ a somewhat complicated maneuver with a Neptune WMX module and needs to be set up in a "œmaster/slave" relationship. Plus, with the Vortech battery backups, I can't even plug in the battery to an MP10, because it will just run off that when it gets not "œnormal" power. Is easier to leave them unplugged for now. When I get the tank rockscaped, with sand added, I'll turn on my one MP10 from the old tank. The Neptune programming for that should still be intact. Once everything is up and running, bringing the 2nd MP10 online will be one of the last things I do.
The electronics shelf itself is nothing to look at. It's a small space, totally dominated by wires. I knew that would be the case. There's that age old problem of what to do with the extra wire. The good thing I can say is that all the hardware is where it was shown in my diagram in the front of this thread. Most of it permanently affixed with screws. Extra electrical cord has been bundled and strapped to make it more manageable. And everything is labeled. With this much crammed in a small space, you don't want to grab a wire and not be certain about what it is.
Now, if you "˜ll excuse me. I've got a tank to fill.
Major Milestone Accomplished
The Eagle has landed! :bounce3::bounce3::bounce3:
Here's the tank, in its final position, ready for salt water and rockscaping. Wow! This took so much longer than I anticipated! The tasks in my plan were pretty good. But my time estimates were total garbage. Between starting with an empty stand (bulkheads installed and tested) and having the stand built out and tested, I figure about three 10-12 hour days. It feels great to finally have that past me.
Most systems have been tested. I think the only exception is the Osmolator, which I was waiting for final aquascaping and sand. I don't want anything making decisions for me about the need for new RO/DI until I'm through taking things in and out of the tank (changing water levels).
That last hour (estimated time) of electronic shelf work took almost exactly 4 hours. Then there was refilling with water and testing all the systems (most of them anyway). Glad I did that, as I had mislabeled a couple of electrical cords, and had them plugged in wrong. And I also made some minor tweaks to my electrical design (mostly swapping components between the Power Bar and the DC4).
Wet compartment
You'll note that on the left side "“ the drain from DT side "“ there is no ATS algae matt. Just a DIY LED light on the side. And also in the middle section is hanging a tube with a union connector going nowhere. That's because I've left the ATS out for now. It will be hooked up the very last. On the left top of the the wet compartment you can see four brass hooks for hanging. Two for the FTS, and one for its acrylic splash screen. The FTS algae matt is obviously alive, and to help keep it that way, it will remain in the trash can until pretty much everything else is in.
Electronics door and shelf
If you look closely, you may see that that the Vortech MP10s are not plugged in. One has not yet been "œprogrammed" into the system "“ a somewhat complicated maneuver with a Neptune WMX module and needs to be set up in a "œmaster/slave" relationship. Plus, with the Vortech battery backups, I can't even plug in the battery to an MP10, because it will just run off that when it gets not "œnormal" power. Is easier to leave them unplugged for now. When I get the tank rockscaped, with sand added, I'll turn on my one MP10 from the old tank. The Neptune programming for that should still be intact. Once everything is up and running, bringing the 2nd MP10 online will be one of the last things I do.
The electronics shelf itself is nothing to look at. It's a small space, totally dominated by wires. I knew that would be the case. There's that age old problem of what to do with the extra wire. The good thing I can say is that all the hardware is where it was shown in my diagram in the front of this thread. Most of it permanently affixed with screws. Extra electrical cord has been bundled and strapped to make it more manageable. And everything is labeled. With this much crammed in a small space, you don't want to grab a wire and not be certain about what it is.
Now, if you "˜ll excuse me. I've got a tank to fill.
