scolley's Big Little Nano – yet another build thread
- Thread starter scolley
- Start date
Thanks for the encouragement folks! 
With that said...
You're welcome. And one responsibility with sharing, is sharing the good AND the bad, so that we can all learn from the entire experience.
With that said...
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Houston, we're spinning out of control
Houston, we're spinning out of control
Yesterday did not go as planned, nor has anything since. Or at least it seems that way.
Chronologically, here's what's gone awry.
Bad heater
I filled the tank night before last, and tossed in an Azoo 200w heater in the DT to warm the water. The heater in the sump has been tested, and works great. But I was not running the return because of anticipating moving rocks in and out of the tank as I worked on the rock scape. So the normal heater in the sump could not help - thus the Azoo in the DT.
The first thing I went to move yesterday was my rock flower anemone. I wanted it to find a nice spot before I moved in corals. With the nem in a cup, I lowered it into the water, and immediately thought, "that water's cold!" The nem shrunk up in a ball, and a thermometer quickly confirmed that the DT water temp was 71 degrees. I had the heater set for 80. And the little heating light was off. It thought it was the right temp first. Yes - I should have checked manually first, just in case. But frankly, I forgot.
Fearing a nem death in the trash can. I left it where it was, and proceeded to warm the DT until it was 80. No longer trusting the Azoo, and wanting my trusty Neptune Apex to control temp, I went ahead and filled the tank and sump all the way, and turned on the return. But warming all that water took enough hours that when it was finished, it was New Year's Eve. So more livestock movement had to wait until today.
Bad Air Flow in Electronics Shelf
When I woke up this morning, I decided to install the ATS, since the return was going. When I went to my web browser to use the Apex' web page to turn off the return, the web site was unresponsive. Long story short... last night was the first time all the electronics have been on for 8-12 hours. The wifi antannae had overheated. Cooling it down had fixed it. But it happened again late this afternoon. So it's a problem I'm going to have to resolve. Soon.
Noisy ATS
So when I installed the ATS, it hooked up exactly as measured. With its splash screen in the perfect spot too. However, it was LOUD. It seems that the plumbing has it hanging at a slightly different angle than previously. So rather than the water slot over the algae mat pointing straight down, it's a few degrees off from straight down. 300 GPH of water going down the algae mat is pretty quiet. But that same 300 GPH shooting past the mat and splashing into the sump water is loud. Won't be a difficult fix. But it will take some parts I don't have, and a few hours. Bummer.
Oh... this also creates a problem. I'd love to leave the stand door open (for the heat in the electronics shelf), but the ATS is just too loud. Not sure how to resolve that. But have to do so tonight.
Evil Trash Can Conditions
So I went to move my corals out of the trash can, to get the live rock at the bottom, and was shocked to see the carnage. A couple of days ago - the last time I looked hard - things looked fine. But something had changed for the worse. My two clowns were dead. As was my tuxedo urchin. And many of SPS were STN'ing. Not bottom up, nor tip down, just in patches. Not good.
Not knowing if there were a condition I was unaware of, I decided to take everything out of the trash can immediately - even if it meant sitting in the open air for a couple of hours - which it ultimately did.
In the interest of full disclosure... one critter I had was an pink and green cucumber. You know, the bad ones. It's always seemed very happy, and nothing ever bothered it. But it was looking rough too. Alive definitely, but feeding tentacles barely protruding, and not kind of mushy looking - not plump. I'm afraid I disposed of it. Better safe than sorry.
Cloudy Sand
My original plan had been to put sand in the DT - after completing rock work - then waiting a day for it to clear, then put in corals. But with everything pulled from the trash can, that plan went out the window.
I did a rush rinse of sand (5 times) in tap, put in some Dechlor, then rinsed with RO/DI. Then the sand went in the tank. I want to even it out, and likely put in more. But cloud it put up - even after rinsing - was amazing. This massively complicated putting in corals.
I put the sand dwelling corals by feel. And then took single egg crate shelf and suspended it to hold the SPS. All of my other LPS were placed in a separate trash can. Hopefully that will only be overnight (heated with a power head), and that the sand silt will be cleared enough that I can put them on the rock work.
Stubborn Mini-maxi's
I've got a could of beautiful mini-maxi's that I now found myself in a rush to get in the tank. They were not on the rocks they had been when I put them in the trash can. Being good nems, they moved to rock they liked better. And boy, were they wedged in.
So I tried the hanging upside down trick. After two hours of it not working (boy can they stretch out long!), I decided to try ice too. I didn't have RO/DO ice, so I used the tap variety. It got one off within 10 minutes or so, by massaging the foot with ice as it was hanging upside down, out of water. It's looking ok now. But the other would NOT let go. I spent 30 minutes, and finally got a hammer and chisel and broke the rock apart. But the poor nem shriveled up from the extended exposure to the ice. Both are in the 2nd trash can now - in plastic cups with rock on the bottom. I'm hoping they'll look ok tomorrow.
I'm sure I'm leaving something out. Too many bad things in a row. Wow. So now I've got to go fix that airflow problem. 'Cuz keeping that door open - with the ATS noise - is not an option.
And I DO hope that sand clears over night. I need to get those other corals in the tank.
Houston, we're spinning out of control
Yesterday did not go as planned, nor has anything since. Or at least it seems that way.
Chronologically, here's what's gone awry.
Bad heater
I filled the tank night before last, and tossed in an Azoo 200w heater in the DT to warm the water. The heater in the sump has been tested, and works great. But I was not running the return because of anticipating moving rocks in and out of the tank as I worked on the rock scape. So the normal heater in the sump could not help - thus the Azoo in the DT.
The first thing I went to move yesterday was my rock flower anemone. I wanted it to find a nice spot before I moved in corals. With the nem in a cup, I lowered it into the water, and immediately thought, "that water's cold!" The nem shrunk up in a ball, and a thermometer quickly confirmed that the DT water temp was 71 degrees. I had the heater set for 80. And the little heating light was off. It thought it was the right temp first. Yes - I should have checked manually first, just in case. But frankly, I forgot.
Fearing a nem death in the trash can. I left it where it was, and proceeded to warm the DT until it was 80. No longer trusting the Azoo, and wanting my trusty Neptune Apex to control temp, I went ahead and filled the tank and sump all the way, and turned on the return. But warming all that water took enough hours that when it was finished, it was New Year's Eve. So more livestock movement had to wait until today.
Bad Air Flow in Electronics Shelf
When I woke up this morning, I decided to install the ATS, since the return was going. When I went to my web browser to use the Apex' web page to turn off the return, the web site was unresponsive. Long story short... last night was the first time all the electronics have been on for 8-12 hours. The wifi antannae had overheated. Cooling it down had fixed it. But it happened again late this afternoon. So it's a problem I'm going to have to resolve. Soon.
Noisy ATS
So when I installed the ATS, it hooked up exactly as measured. With its splash screen in the perfect spot too. However, it was LOUD. It seems that the plumbing has it hanging at a slightly different angle than previously. So rather than the water slot over the algae mat pointing straight down, it's a few degrees off from straight down. 300 GPH of water going down the algae mat is pretty quiet. But that same 300 GPH shooting past the mat and splashing into the sump water is loud. Won't be a difficult fix. But it will take some parts I don't have, and a few hours. Bummer.
Oh... this also creates a problem. I'd love to leave the stand door open (for the heat in the electronics shelf), but the ATS is just too loud. Not sure how to resolve that. But have to do so tonight.
Evil Trash Can Conditions
So I went to move my corals out of the trash can, to get the live rock at the bottom, and was shocked to see the carnage. A couple of days ago - the last time I looked hard - things looked fine. But something had changed for the worse. My two clowns were dead. As was my tuxedo urchin. And many of SPS were STN'ing. Not bottom up, nor tip down, just in patches. Not good.
Not knowing if there were a condition I was unaware of, I decided to take everything out of the trash can immediately - even if it meant sitting in the open air for a couple of hours - which it ultimately did.
In the interest of full disclosure... one critter I had was an pink and green cucumber. You know, the bad ones. It's always seemed very happy, and nothing ever bothered it. But it was looking rough too. Alive definitely, but feeding tentacles barely protruding, and not kind of mushy looking - not plump. I'm afraid I disposed of it. Better safe than sorry.
Cloudy Sand
My original plan had been to put sand in the DT - after completing rock work - then waiting a day for it to clear, then put in corals. But with everything pulled from the trash can, that plan went out the window.
I did a rush rinse of sand (5 times) in tap, put in some Dechlor, then rinsed with RO/DI. Then the sand went in the tank. I want to even it out, and likely put in more. But cloud it put up - even after rinsing - was amazing. This massively complicated putting in corals.
I put the sand dwelling corals by feel. And then took single egg crate shelf and suspended it to hold the SPS. All of my other LPS were placed in a separate trash can. Hopefully that will only be overnight (heated with a power head), and that the sand silt will be cleared enough that I can put them on the rock work.
Stubborn Mini-maxi's
I've got a could of beautiful mini-maxi's that I now found myself in a rush to get in the tank. They were not on the rocks they had been when I put them in the trash can. Being good nems, they moved to rock they liked better. And boy, were they wedged in.
So I tried the hanging upside down trick. After two hours of it not working (boy can they stretch out long!), I decided to try ice too. I didn't have RO/DO ice, so I used the tap variety. It got one off within 10 minutes or so, by massaging the foot with ice as it was hanging upside down, out of water. It's looking ok now. But the other would NOT let go. I spent 30 minutes, and finally got a hammer and chisel and broke the rock apart. But the poor nem shriveled up from the extended exposure to the ice. Both are in the 2nd trash can now - in plastic cups with rock on the bottom. I'm hoping they'll look ok tomorrow.
I'm sure I'm leaving something out. Too many bad things in a row. Wow. So now I've got to go fix that airflow problem. 'Cuz keeping that door open - with the ATS noise - is not an option.
And I DO hope that sand clears over night. I need to get those other corals in the tank.
pscott99
New member
Hopefully you will find a really bad day is always followed by a really good one. Keep it going and all the best. Don't worry about your ATS if your skimmer is running. I finally got rid of mine altogether because I got sick of the weekly cleaning job. A skimmer is much easier to look after. Your electrical is much more important and costly. Keep the door open !! Watch your parameters, you might see a spike with all this moving.:beer:
Thanks pbscott99. I would not call this a good day... just picking up the pieces.
The wifi antenna problem was easy to fix. I left it unplugged overnight and found that the cabinate stays cool if that's off. So I moved it in front of the fan, where it appears to be staying cool. So improving airflow in the electonics shelf will be a long term project, but the immediate problem appears to be remedied.
As for the ATS, the noisy part has been rebuilt. That too will take some tweaking over time. The water spread could be better over the mat. Again, a long term project. For now, the mat is wet - mostly - and reasonably quiet.
Most of my LPS are coming out, not looking dead like yesterday. And my anemones appear to be fine. Though the nicest one retreated to a spot that it can only barley be seen. That's out of spite for how I treated it, I'm sure.
My SPS are another story however. Many are dead - skeletal. Some just have lots of die back. Not knowing how they will do long term, I'm leaving them all in the suspended egg crate rack. The ones that recover, I'll keep. But that will take time. I'll be shocked if that rack is not in the tank for months.
My REAL problem now is the silt from the sand. It's EVERYWHERE. You should see the sump. It looks like someone sprayed all the equipment with white spray paint. I had to blow water over all the corals to clean them off. It's really bad. I want to spread the sand around to level it out, and possibly add some more. But I'm scared to touch it. The water is still milky. So I guess getting the sand fully sorted is also a longer term project. I'll leave it alone for a couple of weeks, and then try leveling and adding more.
Maybe the milky water will clear up tomorrow for a pic. Won't be pretty though.
The wifi antenna problem was easy to fix. I left it unplugged overnight and found that the cabinate stays cool if that's off. So I moved it in front of the fan, where it appears to be staying cool. So improving airflow in the electonics shelf will be a long term project, but the immediate problem appears to be remedied.
As for the ATS, the noisy part has been rebuilt. That too will take some tweaking over time. The water spread could be better over the mat. Again, a long term project. For now, the mat is wet - mostly - and reasonably quiet.
Most of my LPS are coming out, not looking dead like yesterday. And my anemones appear to be fine. Though the nicest one retreated to a spot that it can only barley be seen. That's out of spite for how I treated it, I'm sure.
My SPS are another story however. Many are dead - skeletal. Some just have lots of die back. Not knowing how they will do long term, I'm leaving them all in the suspended egg crate rack. The ones that recover, I'll keep. But that will take time. I'll be shocked if that rack is not in the tank for months.
My REAL problem now is the silt from the sand. It's EVERYWHERE. You should see the sump. It looks like someone sprayed all the equipment with white spray paint. I had to blow water over all the corals to clean them off. It's really bad. I want to spread the sand around to level it out, and possibly add some more. But I'm scared to touch it. The water is still milky. So I guess getting the sand fully sorted is also a longer term project. I'll leave it alone for a couple of weeks, and then try leveling and adding more.
Maybe the milky water will clear up tomorrow for a pic. Won't be pretty though.
Sinclair81
New member
Cuss words! Sorry to hear about the sps', mostlikely everything else will pull through. So why do you think all this happened? Lack of flow in the buckets or something else. Reason I am asking is that I am upgrading from a 55g to a 90g and want to learn. With as well as you planned everything out I thought you were solid! I think filter socks are a good idea, also if you put more sand down are you going to use a larger grain? What kind of cycle are you getting, have you checked parameters? Again I am sorry for the headache and hope everything works out.
iwishtofish
Active member
Unhappy turn of events. I am certain you will recover. Don't get discouraged!
Thanks Joe. Kind of you to offer the HOB by email. Thanks! Your HOB suggestion was great. I'm ashamed to say I didn't think of it myself. I've got a HOT Magnum that I hung on the tank and it cleaned the water up great overnight. Still TONNES of silt on everything, but that can be removed - if laboriously - over time. Here's some pics.
Thanks for the encouragement! I'm a dedicated hobbyiest, even if only a few years into reef keeping. I've KNOW that no matter how hard you seek to avoid it, things happen. And you recover.
So while I AM disappointed. I'm REAL glad most of my LPS seem to be pulling through. And the SPS that I lost were all very small frags. So while greatly disappointed, it's not like I've got 5 years growth down the drain. Not one of those SPS frags had been in my tank over 3-4 months. Many less. So starting over will be easy - if a little more expensive than I had hoped.
Thanks for the kind words.
Here's those SPS. Some completely gone. Some slipping, and 1-2 looking like recovery MIGHT be possible. If I'm lucky.
Here's some of the LPS. They don't look great, but they don't look like they are on the way out either. I think most - if not all - LPS will be fully recovered in a month or two from the looks of things.
I've been wondering about myself. I don't have the water they were in - I got them out of that fast and then dumped it. Nothing to test I'm afraid. But the deaths were selective. It got all my fish, affected - if not killed - all my SPS. And it took out all my shrimp (but one, that moulted the instant I put it in the new tank, and has not been seen since). But it did not kill my copepods, nor my brittle stars, nor my snails, nor hermits. And some of my LPS seem to be affected, but I think that has more to do with flow issues in the trash can. There were no LPS deaths.
Also, I may have mentioned that I had looked in on the trash can the day before and things looked fine. Granted I may have overlooked something. But the SPS were at the top, and I'd have seen massive die-off. So something happened fast. As I said before, I had that pink and green cucumber that was looking bad. Not dead, just deflated and not eating. Maybe something there? I don't know.
Yea. Me too. But that's hubris for you.
But it's why I went from planted tanks, to discus in planted tanks, to reefs. Every time I get something down pat, I look for something harder. This definitely qualifies as harder. That's why I love it.
It's CaribSea Seafloor Special Grade Reef sand. It's a pretty big grain. And a pretty consistent grains size. It just seemed to be FILLED with silt. Six rinses just was not enough. I've poured a lot a sand in a lot of tanks. And it's always a mess for a while. But I've NEVER had silt settle and cover everything in a tank. This was a new (if highly unsettling) experience for me.
Have not checked the parameters. This is all newly mixed salt water, made exactly as I make it every time. Granted, they may have changed with the addition of sand and the live rock (and livestock). I'm sure I'll check tomorrow. But the badness - whatever it was - was in the trash can. No reason to suspect the new tank.
As for a cycle, there should be little to none. With the addition of the live rock, and some sand from the old tank, that cycle - if any - should happen pretty quickly. Not worried about that.
Thanks for the support and encouragement!
Thanks pal! Didn't see your post - it looks like you posted while I was typing. Ninja posting!
Thanks though. It's just a few SPS. Dissapointing, sure. But I stated earlier that for me this was all about what the tank's going to look like in two years. Not now.
As you said, good things take a long time in this hobby. This is just a bump in the road. :thumbsup:
iwishtofish
Active member
On the Road to Recovery!
When I did have sand in my tank, it was the Seafloor Special Grade. I, too, rinsed it a bunch, but it was still as silty as could be when it got in the tank.
When I did have sand in my tank, it was the Seafloor Special Grade. I, too, rinsed it a bunch, but it was still as silty as could be when it got in the tank.
Yeah... you've seen all my other planning. So it should be easy do believe that the decision on WHICH sand to get was not taken lightly. But that silt was a nasty surprise.
Livestock aside, I've got a laundry list of things that are not right with the tank.
- Drain Speed. The drain pump is draining slowly. It could be that the drain hose got pinched when the stand was pushed against the wall. But there's no way to check without draining the tank. Something I'll have to do soon enough.
- Fan Speed. I discussed this before. I need to find a higher amperage power supply for the fans. Currently I'm running resistors on both of them to reduce their speed so that they will restart after a power loss.
- Sump Water Level. I keep finding the water level in the sump a couple of inches higher than the Osmolator is supposed to keep it at. While this means some water will spill if I lose water, the larger concern is just that something is not right. That level should stay solid in the place the Osmolator fills to. Somethings not working correctly, and I've got to figure out what it is.
- More/Level Sand. Tank still need more sand. And what's there has to be leveled.
- Splashing Drain. Where the drain hits the sump, there's a lot of splashing. Too much. The back corner wall of the interior of the stand says soaking wet. That cannot continue, will need to figure something out to eliminate that splashing.
Always fun to have something to do!
JasonBJones
New member
Steve,
Glad to hear you have weathered the storm. Most of the corals look good, and I think you might be surprised at which SPS pull through. Looking at the pictures, most do not look lost.
I feel you on the sand washing. I used the same sand you did. It took my over 2 hours of constant washing to clean 15lbs of sand. However, after all the work, I have never had silt issues with it. I could stir it from day one without causing a sand storm, so there is hope.
Is that your final rock setup? Looks pretty good.
Glad to hear you have weathered the storm. Most of the corals look good, and I think you might be surprised at which SPS pull through. Looking at the pictures, most do not look lost.
I feel you on the sand washing. I used the same sand you did. It took my over 2 hours of constant washing to clean 15lbs of sand. However, after all the work, I have never had silt issues with it. I could stir it from day one without causing a sand storm, so there is hope.
Is that your final rock setup? Looks pretty good.
nj_evoIXgsr
New member
All that nice equipment and elected to go with the tunze9002? Planning to upgrade? go with atleast the BM NAC3+. I can take pics of the skimmate I pull every 2-3days.
Great tank setup. Just knit picking on the skimmer!! lol
Great tank setup. Just knit picking on the skimmer!! lol
Thanks! But that's because I took such a crappy pic of those SPS. They range from totally dead to just really messed up. However, I'm happy to say that one birdsnest - that I thought was a complete goner - today started popping the tinyiest polyps out today. There's zero flesh on the "body" of the coral (whatever that it called). But there is life, and it wants to come back. That seems to be a consistent theme... whatever was wrong is over, and now it's time to try to claw back to vibrant health again. And I'm gonna let them try. 'Cuz in principle all it takes is one polyp.
Worst case, in a month it goes in the trash bin.
Thanks for that tip. I'll spend a LOT more time on the next batch now.
First time through, I knew it was going to be bad. But there was a crisis happening - I had corals drying - out of water. Had I known what you just said, at the 30 minute mark where I stopped rinsing... I think I'd have made the same decision. But it will help on the next batch. Thanks!
Not quite. But close. There's some extra live rock in there now that is temporary - to help with the biological transition. There's also some at the top that is just too high. But SPS frags will go up there, and as they grew enough to hit the top of the water, I'm planning on pulling them - and the rocks they are one - and putting them on the rock under the removed small top rock. That will drop them down 3" and give them more room to grow.
In the pics I've shown so far, I think you can see the really nice slope on the rock pile to the right. Should be great for SPS. What does not show so well is that the same exact nice slope is on the pile to the left. So it will be LPS on the sand and the lowest rock, and SPS on the slopes or the flatter areas at the top - depending on their needs.
I can't wait!
Thanks. It IS bad. But yes - just a bump in the road. :thumbsup:
Thanks! That is a great question.
I started with a 9002 in my 29g because I had a tiny (and I mean tiny) enclosure in my stand. It was one of the few that would fit. And amazingly, it works pretty well. At least it has for me. I should post pics of the old tank before I crashed it in a large scale Paly killing exercise. It was
pretty loaded with healthy life. With a nice pod population. And zero algae. Zero.
So it was doing a good job. And moving to this new tank, I figured if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Plus, when I was able to maintain a tank where I fed the corals and animals regularly, had zero algae, and zero phosphate or nitrates (or too low to measure with Salifert kits), I don't see the need for a skimmer with more horsepower. Things are fine now. But if you disagree - because there some benefit that I'm overlooking - please let me know.
Speaking of skimmers, I tested everything the other day. Phosphates - zip. Nitrates - zip. Ammonia - not sure. There was "something' there. But it was far lower than the lowest reading in the kit. So I'm not worried about it. Likely just the tiniest of cycles. Will level out very soon I'm sure.
Thanks for the encouragement. Will get more pics as I get the sand and such straightened out.
gmate
MASC Member
Having seen this tank in person, I will definitely say that you have put a ton of work into it and it is paying off. Looked great, his SPS are going to go nuts in there! And he's got some sweet starfish.
Thanks again for letting me into your home and showing me your setup! I loved everything that I saw. Hope to see you soon, be good!
Glenn
Thanks again for letting me into your home and showing me your setup! I loved everything that I saw. Hope to see you soon, be good!
Glenn
