scolley's Big Little Nano – yet another build thread

[scolley]

Absolutely awesome work, I cannot wait to see this thing come together!

Lookin awesome! I really dig the use of the bulkheads, cleans up the look tremendously. I also really like those fan mounting brackets from coolerguys.

have to scubscribe, great build!

really nice build...

Nice job Steve.....

Thanks folks! Believe me when I tell you, that kind feedback is most appreciated. Thank you.

You must also be a computer modder/builder eh?

Nope. I just hate noisy fans. Have been replacing stock fans in aquarium lights with quiet PC fans for years. So those modder sites were the first place I turned when I realized that cutting a hole in the stand, and cramming a fan in it was going to look BAD. Thankfully I found an acceptable faceplate.

Also, it's worth mentioning that you can get unfinished wood slatted vents, that fit PC fans. They're for stereo cabinets and such. But they would have required more staining and poly. Did I mention that I hate painting poly?

...is the mp10 worth 200 dollars???

Well, clearly that's a matter of opinion. A topic I'll not delve into here. But clearly I think so. Oh... these are MP10W ES, a bit more than $200 I'm afraid. So I guess YES I really do think so. If you want more info, please send me a PM and I'll be happy to tell you why I like them. But I'm hessitant to take that up here, because I don't want this thread to turn into yet another "Are Vortechs worth the money" debate.

.... except for the fans. J/K.

Yuk, yuk, yuk! LOL.

But GUESS WHAT? Those fans are NOT crooked! I KNOW that sounds unbelievable. But when I noticed them being crooked, I was looking at the picture. I could not check the fans because they had been removed so I could poly coat the holes. Well, they're back in now and they are straight. Really. One is maybe a degree off. Tiny. I mean real tiny. I know because I've got a metal T-square type thing I used to check the angle on both of them. I guess they look that way in the picture because of camera lens parallax (or whatever that's called). I'm too lazy to take and post more pics right now. But if even one person posts "I don't believe you", I'll be happy to include a pic of them with the T-square to prove it, the next time I post pics. Really.

BTW - with the poly dried I've put all the bulkheads back in, including some of the behind the stand plumbing that goes in them, and IMO it looks awesome! I'm really surprised how cool it looks. It's kinda embarrassing to get excited about nice aquarium plumbing. But if you've seen inside the stand of my 180, you know I'm into that stuff.

Thanks again for the kind words. :thumbsup:

 

[tpallas]

Great work Steve! Which hole(s) does the water pass through?

 

[scolley]

Great work Steve! Which hole(s) does the water pass through?

Thanks! But that's a loaded question. Some kind of water passes through almost all of them. Maybe when the plumbing is hooked up I can do a diagram. It'll have a lot of pointers and arrows.

 

[creefer01]

Great work, Steve. I admire your planning and attention to detail.

 

[scolley]

Great work, Steve. I admire your planning and attention to detail.

Thanks a mil'! I try.

But truth be told - IMO - planning is one leg of a three legged stool; experience, planning, and inspiration. As far as I can tell, that's what is required for great tanks. Granted, wonderful resources like RC can allow on-line research to become a substitute for experience. It doesn't really matter who's experience you are building on, as long as the knowledge gleaned from it is valid. That's why it's so important we separate the wheat from the chaff here.

As for planning? IMO there's no substitute for that. But you can do less if you are happy accepting a higher incidence of unexpected problems, and/or unsatisfactory results. It's everyone's choice. Though - truth be told - many of us are more comfortable with detail planning -and have the tools to do it. I've got no doubt many people would love to do more planning to increase the quality of their results, but just don't know how, or don't have the tools. So I'm just lucky those aren't obstacles for me.

But IMO that stool is still three legged. I've got a bit of experience, and have DEEP dived into the posted experience of others. But 2nd hand experience is a substitute - a poor one - for 1st hand experience. As for the next leg - planning - I think that's covered. That leaves inspiration.

That IMO is my downfall. I know beauty when I see it. But I'm creatively challenged to construct it myself.

So THANKS for the kind words! Lets see how far that one leg if the stool can carry me.

 

[OrionCC]

wow! True perfectionist! look forward to following this build!

 

[tpallas]

Steve, I get the feeling you're about to lay the sump design on us.

 

[scolley]

wow! True perfectionist! look forward to following this build!

LOL! Not really. a TRUE perfectionist would not have abided one of the six John Guest bulkhead lock nuts being white, instead of silver like the other five. But it does bother me.

Steve, I get the feeling you're about to lay the sump design on us.

Really? It's so unremarkable, I wasn't going to bother. But here's what I sent the fabricator.

 

[scolley]

In the past couple of weeks I've made a few notable design changes.

Moving the ATS Return location
I've decided to move the ATS out of the drain section of my sump, and into the middle refugium. This is not ideal because the ATS creates lots of micro-bubbles as the water flows through the algae mat. But I just don't think there will be room in space above the drain section. It's already got the skimmer cup and the big 1" drain pipe. I still think I can squeeze it in, but I'm concerned about just having the space to easily get my arm in there to remove and replace the skimmer cup.

So I'm going to try this change. If the micro-bubbles from the ATS don't get taken care of by the baffle between the refugium and the return section, I'll move it.


Taking the Chiller off the Return Line
I've decided to take the chiller off the main return line, and move it to its own loop. I've got an extra Eheim 1250 that will be the perfect flow rate and and it will fit in my return section, along with the Eheim 1260 return pump. I'm doing that for two reasons.

First - the lines to remotely located chiller are about 30' long in total. That's a big remote loop. With the 3/4" tubing I'll be using, it should work OK. But it just bothers me. I don't like my return water making a huge loop before it goes back to the tank.

Second, the chiller lines run by a radiating floor heater, that - to some degree or another - is going to warm the water in the winter. What a kick in the pants that would be... Having my chiller turning on to cool down the water that is warming up in its trip to and from the chiller! Better to just turn that loop off in the winter time IMO. But that plan does have a couple downsides.

First, instead of chiller water going straight to the tank, it'll be going back to the sump. So roughly 50% of the water going to the chiller (from the sump) will always be already chilled. I'm hoping that's not going to be a problem. At 1/10 HP the chiller is already, arguably, too big for my system. Having it chill water that is already not that warm may be adding insult to injury for the chiller. Wish I understood chillers better...

And second, in the winter when the chiller loop is not running, the water in the loop will be both warming up, and stagnating. So I'm may have to drain those lines before I turn the chiller on in the spring. But I'm going to try to use the Apex's OSC function to turn the pump on every 30 minutes or so when the chiller is not running. The will keep the water in the lines fresh. Will have to see though, as the water may be too warm due to proximity to the heater.


I can easily change my electrical and water flow diagrams to reflect these two changes, but am conflicted as to what I should do to document it. Should I...

1. Not bother reposting the diagrams because explaining it here is documentation enough?
2. Post revised diagrams in a new post?
3. Go back and change the actual file in the original post, so the original post reflects the change? (I can do that because my images are hosted elsewhere, not at RC).

And thoughts?

 

[scolley]

Noctua Fan Problem

Noctua Fan Problem

Also, I ran into a surprising little problem with my two Noctua fans this week. When testing the power strips that I'm installing in the stand, I noticed that when power was shut off and turned back on, the fans would not start. They would just jiggle - not spinning - just jittering back and forth.

Testing I found that if I only had one fan plugged into the power supply and cycled the power, it would start right up. Also with two plugged in, if I power cycled to start the "jittering", and then if I unplugged the cable to one fan, the other would start right up. And I then could plug the unplugged fan back in, and it too would start right up, running in parallel with the other one.

The power requirements for each fan is as follows:

Noctua NF-R8
Input Power 1.32 W
Input Current 110 mA
Voltage Range 4-13 V
​

And the AC adapter's specs should easily drive two of those fans:

Input Power AC100-240V
Output Current 500 mA
Output Voltage 12 V
​

Apparently these fans have a start-up draw that's bigger than their running draw. And since a single fan will start, but two powered in parallel won't, on the 500ma adapter, I know that start-up draw is something more than 250 mA, and less than 500 mA, per fan. So I've got to get a bigger power supply, 1 Amp will do.

Until then I've plugged the little super-duper-quiet resistors that came with the fans into their respective power cables. That cuts down the draw, and they both start up just fine after a power cycle. But they are also moving a lot less air. Should work fine in for a while. So getting a new power supply for them remains a "to-do", but a low priority one.

 

[gmate]

don't you ever wonder if sometimes simpler is easier? I read the first few graphs/charts/diagrams of this thread and chuckled. I think the pure logistics of reefkeeping infatuates you moreso than the physical reef itself!

Hey, whatever gets your rocks off

 

[scolley]

don't you ever wonder if sometimes simpler is easier?

Nope. I never wonder about that, because I'm certain simple is easier. Always is, and not my cup of tea.

To each his own.

 

[iwishtofish]

Very interesting build!

I'm curious, though - does the UPS you plan to use have True Sine Output? I've read many times that this is necessary to run motors, and I believe only the more expensive APC UPSs offer this feature.

 

[dweathers]

Your incredible attention to detail inspires me. Can't wait to see how this progresses.

 

[gabe3eb]

Steve - very nice build. I love this tank size and am looking forward to see how you layout your scape.

Quick helpful pointer that saved me much heartache. For the loc-line return nozzles, if you decide you want fewer links, just unscrew the loc-line from the bulkhead, drop into boiling water for about 30 seconds (ala football mouthguard), and when you take it out you will have about 15 seconds where its soft enough to pop off links. Not sure if this was something you were considering, but IMO it looks better with fewer links and you don't lose any functionality.

Cheers!

 

[scolley]

First, THANKS for the kind words folks. It's actually a PITA posting so much info (yes planning info, not just pics). But it's in the hope that it will be helpful to the community. I've received SO much help from people at RC - time to give back. But the feedback makes it worth it though, believe me. Thanks.

I'm curious, though - does the UPS you plan to use have True Sine Output? I've read many times that this is necessary to run motors, and I believe only the more expensive APC UPSs offer this feature.

GREAT question! Mine is a APC UPS XS 1000, not large, but not small either. And it does not create a "True" sine wave. It does a "Stepped approximation to a sinewave".

I can confirm that I've run my larger Eheim off of it with no issues. Now I could be slowly destroying it, for all I know. Will find out I guess. But it SEEMS to work ok. Thanks for pointing that out. Will be a good thing to watch over time.

For the loc-line return nozzles, if you decide you want fewer links, just unscrew the loc-line from the bulkhead, drop into boiling water for about 30 seconds (ala football mouthguard), and when you take it out you will have about 15 seconds where its soft enough to pop off links.

WOW! I wish I'd known about that before! I've half ripped my hands apart trying to pop those d*mn things off. The larger diameter Loc-Lines aren't so hard. But these 1/2" ones are a PITA to separate. Thank you for that tip! I'm sure I'll be using it. :thumbsup:

As to the size of those lines, yeah they are large at the moment. I've got some little one piece elbows that I may replace them with - or just shorten them. But I wanted to get the rockscape in and settled before deciding.

 

[scolley]

Successful Water Test!

Successful Water Test!

Yippeee! I got through my water test this weekend. And I WAS concerned.

I'd not posted about it, but when I received my Mr. Aqua tank, the box was in shambles (I should post a pic). I mean destroyed. But to my shock the tank seemed Ok. I called Marine Depot, just to warn them that if it didn't hold water when I eventually got to a point that I could fill it, that I would be looking for a replacement. They were VERY good about that. But if proved unnecessary. The tank held water!

I was also vaguely worried about the stand. I know it's reinforced and all that, but it is a comfort to see it holding up all the same. And then - of course - there's the plumbing.

Most of the plumbing tested well, but it was not perfect. One threaded 1/2" elbow just did not want to stop weeping. Not leaking, weeping very, very slowly. It took three tries to get it to hold. The problem was a kind of crappy bit of plastic molding that made the threads not line up perfectly. But lots and lots of teflon tape - AND - teflon paste fixed it eventually.

Oh! THERE's a major downside to using threaded vs. slip connections... All the home supply stores in my area carry primarily slip, so you have to but threaded on-line. And if you need a replacement part - and are out of extras - it's gonna take a while. That's why I kept working with that crappy fitting until it held.

Earlier Tom asked about all the holes, a I said I'd get a pic with labels and stuff. Here you go.

Those two sets of three John Guest fittings labeled "Misc." are RO/DI water for top off, new saltwater for water auto changes, 2-part Ca, alk, and Mg solutions, and one spare.

 

[scolley]

Bizare paint peeling

Bizare paint peeling

The water test itself went well, but it had some unintended consequences. The pic below is of the back wall of the tank, as seen from above the tank. See those bizarre paint cracks? Wow!

The cracks started as I was filling the tank with water. The water was cold tap water (winter time tap water is very cold here). They started immediately, got smaller as the tank filled (I assume it was warming to ambient temp). And as you can see, it seemed to crack in the direction of the overflow, as if the cold water moving there contributed to where the cracking occurred.

Much of the paint came off in large flakes - like 3"x3" flakes. Big. I was forced to remove all the paint - repainting is underway now. And the paint near the cracks flaked off. But moving away from the cracks it remained adhered nicely, and required vigerous work with a razor blade to remove.

My conclusion is that the cold water caused the paint to contract, causing cracks. And that the paint's tendency to hold together in solid pieces exceeded its ability to adhere to the glass. So where it contracted, it flaked. And where the water was warmer (less contraction), it remained well adhered to the glass.

I used Krylon paint. I think it was their Fusion product specifically, but I threw away the empty can, and cannot confirm that. I cleaned the glass with Windex, then rubbing alcohol, and finally acetone before painting. The glass should have been clean. And the painting itself was done outdoors, on a cool afternoon. I'm guessing the temperature was around 55 degrees.

I've painted other tanks before, with Krylon, and never had this happen. So I'm not sure what went amiss. But I'm REAL glad I did the water test. This would have been an aweful thing to happen with fish and corals in buckets, ready to go into the tank as it was being set up!

One more reason to test things first I suppose. It reduces the unexpected.

 

[iwishtofish]

That is really strange. I've never heard of problems like that with Krylon Fusion. If it was caused by cold water going in the tank, I'd think we would hear of it more often.

 

[aaron7405]

When I paint a tank I do a bit of sanding with a very fine sand paper