secret ingredients?????
- Thread starter Bebo77
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Horace
New member
The best tank I have ever seen with my own eyes (but is not far behind Iwan's tank) uses purely Zeovit products. Which ones are making the biggest difference I have no idea. He also adds reef chili like once a week but I do that too and I dont get nearly his results so I dont think that helps much, if at all. He never doses phyto or anything like that either. I think its pretty much all about low nutrients, good light, and good flow. Im sure the extra aminos and the CV helps a bit too. Some say that has oyster eggs and other stuff in it, but noone really knows but the manufactuer 
.
Im giving the CV and AAHC a try in the next couple weeks and hope to see some difference.
. Im giving the CV and AAHC a try in the next couple weeks and hope to see some difference.
Horace
New member
Well reef chili has quite a bit of cyclopeeze in it and I havent noticed any significant difference using it and not. I think Cyclopeeze is MUCH too big for most sps to ingest. Most of it just floats to the surface anyway. If anything I think he may be getting better results from an increase in microfauna, not the SPS directly taking up the cyclo
turtlespd
Premium Member
you do nothing! buy some corals from reliable places and set it and forget it! In time youll gain the colors you want. It is very difficult to expect poping colors from a tank no older than 6 months. I found that colors seem best when i have left a piece a lone for 6-8 months on some. All that crazy bacteria is just too much for me. If you check out all the nice tanks most just keep in check their husbandary, that is really the key. If you can keep everthing as stable as possible, the colors will come.
Kip
New member
this has been discussed in other threads.....
but it has been a trend to run really sterile/low nutrient tanks as of late. (wet skimming, super flow to take out particles, GFO, then the whole BB movement) Seems that this has been focused on so specifically that the fact that corals need some nutrients in the water has been overlooked. (many have mentioned it, it just doesnt stand out as much as the info on how to run a low nutrient tank)
I am no phD, not an author, not marine biologist (and i dont play one on the internet)... but it seems that in all of this fancy equipment and water stripping methodology that we've forgotten that corals need some poop and other nutrients in the water. Tough part is finding that fine line b/w having enough food in the water for corals and having too much food in the water that fuels algae, masked colors, and impeded growth.
Everybody's tank is gonna be different. How much you should feed or how much poop you should leave in the water is gonna depend upon coral load, fish load, equipment, and general tank husbandry.
Nope.... .sorry.. no silver bullet here.... just consider.....
... if you dont like the looks of your coral....
-has it been in your tank a fair enough time, under constant conditions for you to make a fair assessment?
-if it is brown... stays brown... wont grow... but all other parameters suit its needs... then too many nutrients.
-if it is light, colors arent well saturated, and you know it can look better (you got a frag from a buddy and his looks awesome)... then the coral is probably starving.
-if you've reduced nutrients and the coral doesnt look good and you've increased nutritents and the coral doesnt look good... you may just have to accept the fact that you have a naturally dull or a naturally light colored coral
think about the all-magical zeo method.... you strip the water to near sterility, then you constantly add a food source back into the tank.
i think acro keepers are always gonna be chasing colors... its what makes stony keeping challenging.
You guys asked... these are just my opinions... take them as you will.
but it has been a trend to run really sterile/low nutrient tanks as of late. (wet skimming, super flow to take out particles, GFO, then the whole BB movement) Seems that this has been focused on so specifically that the fact that corals need some nutrients in the water has been overlooked. (many have mentioned it, it just doesnt stand out as much as the info on how to run a low nutrient tank)
I am no phD, not an author, not marine biologist (and i dont play one on the internet)... but it seems that in all of this fancy equipment and water stripping methodology that we've forgotten that corals need some poop and other nutrients in the water. Tough part is finding that fine line b/w having enough food in the water for corals and having too much food in the water that fuels algae, masked colors, and impeded growth.
Everybody's tank is gonna be different. How much you should feed or how much poop you should leave in the water is gonna depend upon coral load, fish load, equipment, and general tank husbandry.
Nope.... .sorry.. no silver bullet here.... just consider.....
... if you dont like the looks of your coral....
-has it been in your tank a fair enough time, under constant conditions for you to make a fair assessment?
-if it is brown... stays brown... wont grow... but all other parameters suit its needs... then too many nutrients.
-if it is light, colors arent well saturated, and you know it can look better (you got a frag from a buddy and his looks awesome)... then the coral is probably starving.
-if you've reduced nutrients and the coral doesnt look good and you've increased nutritents and the coral doesnt look good... you may just have to accept the fact that you have a naturally dull or a naturally light colored coral
think about the all-magical zeo method.... you strip the water to near sterility, then you constantly add a food source back into the tank.
i think acro keepers are always gonna be chasing colors... its what makes stony keeping challenging.
You guys asked... these are just my opinions... take them as you will.
Amphiprionocellaris
New member
The best tanks that I have seen (in person and otherwise) used a balanced "whole picture" approach. They focused on setting up an as-close-to-complete-as-possible ecosystem. The corals really seem to enjoy that. And, although I keep only a few SPS, my tank, which uses the same methods, looks great.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
I very much agree. People want to set up a tank, have long-term results immediately.
My focus is much like Kip's, where it's both low-nutrient and well fed. IMO, I've had pretty good results with a `fish mush' food that's a mix of many things.
It's a delicate balance - feeding well while keeping nutrient levels undetectable - but IMO that's what the best tanks hold in common.
As for Acropora being able to take cyclops-eeze, mine here seems to have captured some - and whose slime has caught another.
Acropora might have only a tiny bit of flesh on it, but that doesn't mean food will hurt. It's the dissolved nutrient part - which heavy export should handle removing.
Horace
New member
I think you have it EXACTLY right here. My tank has been very low nutrients for a long time, and ever since I started feeding my fish a bit more food and I added a couple more fish, the corals have started growing. I have a few other issues right now, but overall my SPS look pretty darn good right now. They could look better but I am working on a few other factors atm to help that, mainly stability of tank parameters is my current focus.
fishypets
New member
I also have a problem with poor color but have good growth. My tank isn't BB but has super low nutrients. I started feeding every day (oytster eggs, mixture of fresh shrimp, mussel and clam blended) and my color is slowing comming on. I also upgraded my skimmer to handle the extra load. So far so good.
onthefly
Getting back into it!
After my "Fading SPS color" thread...I tried to find out as much as I could on the matter. I added 2 small fish and began feeding heavily. I was "floored" at the quantity of food (selcon, mysis, and CE) I could add and not see an effect on water quality. Slowly, my colors and growth are coming back. In fact, I'll be adding 2 more fish in a couple weeks.
In my ever quest for knowledge, this is what I came up with: 1) Corals get ~ 80% of their metabolites (mostly sugars and carbs) through photosynthesis and the metabolism of the zoox. populations within the tissues. The other 20% (proteins, fats, etc....all the things photosynthesis can't make) come from predation.
The important "missing link" that I came up with, Zoox need a nitrogen source in order for photosynthesis to work! This nitrogen source comes from the proteins provided by predation. Remember, symbiosis is a two-way street......If your tank becomes nitrogen limited, then zoox populations will decline....so will your colors and eventually the health of the coral! It's that simple!
In my ever quest for knowledge, this is what I came up with: 1) Corals get ~ 80% of their metabolites (mostly sugars and carbs) through photosynthesis and the metabolism of the zoox. populations within the tissues. The other 20% (proteins, fats, etc....all the things photosynthesis can't make) come from predation.
The important "missing link" that I came up with, Zoox need a nitrogen source in order for photosynthesis to work! This nitrogen source comes from the proteins provided by predation. Remember, symbiosis is a two-way street......If your tank becomes nitrogen limited, then zoox populations will decline....so will your colors and eventually the health of the coral! It's that simple!
Me No Nemo
Premium Member
I use a good skimmer and feed DT's Oyster eggs, Coral Vibrance (excellent coral food IMO), cyclopeez and lots of flow. Of course, good lighting is a must. I feed minimally every night and alternate just before lights out and about 20 minutes after lights out. I've also found that keeping my magnesium between 1400 and 1450 has made a huge difference. GL, Marcye
justinzimm
New member
Wow, I like this thread. I agree with most people here that we are starving our aquariums. I noticed better growth, color and PE the more I feed. In college I took a few graduate level classes on coral biology and symbiosis. In these we were taught that coral and most cnidarians can absorb nitrates and phosphates across external membranes. This makes me think that we don't need the cyclopees and artemia, as long as the water contains dissolved organics (nitrates, phosphates). Also, I've never been 100% sure that SPS can ingest the foods we are feeding them. I tend to believe that these foods are either eaten by other animals, liquified in our pumps or decay to produce the dissolved organics our corals are using.
Right now I'm like feeding fresh phyto. to the corals. This is because I'm thinking if SPS can "catch" their food the phyto would be about the size they would be looking for. Also, the water the phyto. is grown and comes in is equivalent to marine miracle grow. It has all the nutrients that algae (or coral) needs to grow. It's also in the right ratios for most animal/plant growth. Someone should experiment with just adding the algae food the aquarium and skip the phyto culturing step. It might work just as good.
If anyone has ever went diving and looked at rocks and substrate on a coral reef it is 100% encrusted with life. In our aquariums we get maybe half that with the majority being coraline algae. Why?
Finally, adding these nutrients are great if your other params. are good and the animals are able to use them. If your numbers (alk, pH, calcium) are out of whack or your system is unstable then the animals/corals might not be uptaking these nutrients or even adding nutrients back into the water. So heavy feeding is only good in healthy aquariums and not sick ones. It also has to be increased slowly and not at once. If we are feeding heavy and getting high nitrates and phosphate readings our aquarium might not be as healthy as we think.
Just my thoughts,
Justin
Right now I'm like feeding fresh phyto. to the corals. This is because I'm thinking if SPS can "catch" their food the phyto would be about the size they would be looking for. Also, the water the phyto. is grown and comes in is equivalent to marine miracle grow. It has all the nutrients that algae (or coral) needs to grow. It's also in the right ratios for most animal/plant growth. Someone should experiment with just adding the algae food the aquarium and skip the phyto culturing step. It might work just as good.
If anyone has ever went diving and looked at rocks and substrate on a coral reef it is 100% encrusted with life. In our aquariums we get maybe half that with the majority being coraline algae. Why?
Finally, adding these nutrients are great if your other params. are good and the animals are able to use them. If your numbers (alk, pH, calcium) are out of whack or your system is unstable then the animals/corals might not be uptaking these nutrients or even adding nutrients back into the water. So heavy feeding is only good in healthy aquariums and not sick ones. It also has to be increased slowly and not at once. If we are feeding heavy and getting high nitrates and phosphate readings our aquarium might not be as healthy as we think.
Just my thoughts,
Justin
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