selection help

reefswinger

New member
so my 92 g. corner has been sitting with 4 inches live sand and somewhere around 100 lbs of rock for almost a month now. i have had 2 ammonia spikes after placing 2 loads of rock in it. i have not noted a nitrite/nitrate spike . i did get brown stuff on the sand rock and wall. have done 2 15% water changes all water has been r.o. . ive had the protein skimmer running but it is not producing anything. new things seem to be growing on the rock. temp. is hanging around 79 degrees. i have a wet dry with bio balls. ive been leaving the lights off. what should i be looking for? doing next?
ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 ph 7.8 hardness 240ish alk. 180
Now for the fun part . during all this waiting i think i have picked out some fish i like. which 1's would u agree with and what order should i put them in. i know this is taboo but i will not have a quarentine tank for the initial fish purchases. i realize the risk im running and plan to get one in the future , however all this $ spending and waiting is getting to me and my family. i understand many will disagree with this procedure.
i have a canopy that will prevent jumpers.
P.s. obviously this will be a reef tank.
i definetly want the false percula should i get seperate or mated pair wild or aquacultured.
definetly want a yellow tang. is larger better?
i really like the engineer goby because its the closest to an eel i can get, for my son. should i get a couple?
i like the banggai gramma and the pajama .wild aquacultured. id like to get a few of these.?
id like either a royal gramma or a wrasse bass
i like the sixline or the leapord wrasse.
i like the hogfish maybe the cuban?
and i really hope i could have an angel fish. flame , flame back ,blue fin pygmy?
so what do u think ? what order can i put some in groups? with this list would some crabs/shrimp/special inverts be better or worse? i know this is legnthy. and i truelly do appreciate the help.
 
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phish guy

New member
hey come join uscorner tank club


clowns- definitely go for tank raised much better off than wild caught. a pair is up to you. is you want a pair it is best to get them at the same time.

tang- and this guy twards the end, and no bigger isnt better.

engineer goby- make sure your rock work is stable. they dig, ALOT. and just get one or your whole tank will be dug up and rearranged.

Bangai/pajama cardinals (not gramma)- good reef fish, again go ofr tank raised, always better than wild caught. they can be kept in groups, pajamas would be better for that as bangai ussaully kill the rest til a pair is left.

royal gramma- perfect reef fish

sixline wrasse/leopard wrasse- go for the sixline. being this is your first try at salt, leopard wrasses are finicky eaters and generally have poor survival rates in captivity.

hogfish- dont get either, you want a reef dont get either.

angels- can be hit or miss in reef tanks. in nature they eat corals so it alaways a 50/50 shot. most people seem to have luck with flame or coral beauties.


as for the oreder added. . .
1 gramma
2 cardinals
3 clown(s)
4 goby
5 wrasse
6 angel
7 tang


ok i think i got it all
 

reefswinger

New member
thanks phish guy. verrrry helpful . p.s. i did 'join' the corner tank group. just thought i'd get more attention in here.
i am accepting/appreciating other opinions. p.s. does this sound like a good sized community? what about good/compatible inverts and what about time periods between additions?
 

spoofer

New member
Phish Guy you rock! you summed it up, and really the fun part is the coral the fish are cool, but you'll soon realize the corals are the most amazing part

just two things though, bio-balls?? ditch'm - there robbing your live rock of their use

flow rate- people never realize how important it is to have adequate flow and CHANGING flow patterns- espically in the beginning. Move those powerheads around the tank! that should speed up the process and that skimmer should start to produce more efficently.

Good luck !
 

phish guy

New member
yeha you will get more hits here, the corner thread will help down the line, corner tanks can be tricky. helps to have people that been through it.

seems an appropriate sized community for your tank. as far as inverts, what ere you thinking? clams? shrimps? starfish?

as far as time between additions. the slower you take things the better. iv worked at a pet store for almost 4 yrs, the most common reason for failure is rushing and adding lots of fish quickly, then wondering why they all die and blaming me. to get all the fish you want is going to take a few months.
 

phish guy

New member
o yeah, thanks spoofer. yeah ditch the bio balls, replace them with live rock rubble. and the skimmer isnt producing alot because there isnt anything producing alot of waste. use a powerhead to blow into all the nooks and crannies of the rock and get all the "crud" in the water column so it can be filtered out.
 

reefswinger

New member
thanks both of you.! yes i do enjoy the corner tank thread. as for moving the jets , thats the first time i heeard/read that so thanks for that. as for taking my time , i understand that and will try to continue to show some restraint. so a fish a week sound about right? ok. as for the reef i'm with you thats what i'm looking forward to . however the kids wanna see some fish ,lol. i've heard/read mixed reviews on the bio balls and purposly pointed out that i had those in there. if there so bad WHY DO THEY EVEN SELL THESE THINGS ! LOL. ok so ill be needing some rubble now.... as far as inverts i like many ,love the pepermint shrimp but looking for compatability/longevity/#'s. /etc.





p.s. what do you think of this sale? i', about 3 hours away.. it isn't pre drilled though.. good quarentine/display maybe? good price?
 

spoofer

New member
Bio- balls are for wet dry filters that generally serve the application of fish only tanks- I use them on my 125 african tank.
 

phish guy

New member
bio balls do work greta at converting ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate, GREAT at that. but then they and break down the nitrate. so they just keep making them. like spoofer said, good for fish only tanks(fresh or salt) but not reefs.

about a fish a week sounds good. just keep testing your water along the way. if something is off, dont add fish that time. fix the problem then add fish.

pep shrimps are good, the (usually) eat pest anemones. shrimps live about 2yrs (i think) i have heard stories about pep shrimps eatins zoas and some LPS, but its not very common. mine never have. i do recommend getting skunk cleaner shrimps, i will never have a reef tank without them. serpant/brittle stars are great at cleaning up after your fish, and pretty neat in their own right. dont forget about your basic clean up crew, hermits and snails. snails are a MUST for algae control.
 

reefswinger

New member
this is the link i meant to 'stick'
http://cgi.ebay.com/37-gallon-Reef-...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:2|294:50 .
im terrible at the whole coping and pasting thing. so its pretty unanamous NO on the bio balls? what it sounds like i need is a refugium. as far as a clean up crew i guess i should add at the rate i add fish and corals. its more expensive that way but maybe still worth it. how many shrimp/crab/etc is a good amount. i hear the turbo snail iks best. what do you think about conch's clams lobsters cucumbers? types numbers? when/what order/numbers? i guess i can only get 'small' starfish without a refugium? anybody have any luck making a refugium out of a wet/dry im sorry i'm getting greedy with my questioning.
 
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phish guy

New member
yeah, heres the old filter, used to be a Pro-clear wet/dry sump. the bioballs used to be right infront of the skimmer, in this pic its aball of cheato algae instead. my nitrates went WAY down when i did this.

100_1801.jpg


as far as a CUC (clean up crew) goes, get a variety of snails. they all eat slightly different things. Turbos, Astreas, Ceriths(my fav), Nerite, Nassarius. Star fish arent dependent on a fuge. but dont get one til your tank is nice and stable, stars dont take changes very well.



the Ebay deal seems like a good deal, considering livestock included.
 

reefswinger

New member
well i guess the good news is i have some time to convert away from the bioball set up since i currently have no nitrates. what kind of light is the minimum for a similar set up, with the cheeta,spelling lol, algae? i'm going to need more a.c. power before this is all over,lol. any thoughts on saltwater.com for purchasing livestock? or the 37 gal. on ebay? any opinions on minimun maximums on larger inverts? shrimp crab lobster clam starfish, for my set up and what i plan to put in for livestock? opinions on a cucumber type conchs? p.s. i plan to have what i would call a 'moderate' amount of corals etc if thats usful.
 

spoofer

New member
Becareful with the bio balls- remove them in incriments- 1/4 each time over a week or so...

I use serpent and tile stars- they look cool and do Work!

Naussari's are the bomb! but like phish guy said a variety, they all eat different stuff and I would take your time and experiment with different stuff...part of the fun- trial and error- and there will be errors.

I have a Mexican Turbo and it does well and cleans everything it touchs, but it knocks everything over! lol...

Stay away from the lobsters in my opinon more trouble than there worth- of course there are exeptions, but thats my general take on them
 

Elysia

New member
Was there a lot of "stuff" on your live rock that needed curing? If there wasn't ever anything in your tank decomposing, then you haven't had your cycle. Have you been feeding the tank this whole time? To keep that bacteria alive and well it needs to be fed. If you have been doing this, then I apologize for wasting your time. I just wouldn't want you to wait only to have your first purchases sit in a stalled tank.
 

reefswinger

New member
ok remove in increments got it. no on lobsters? ok the good news is theres other options. so i may want to buy snails onezy twozy's at my lfs instead of buying a group through an internet supplier. shipping obviously is set up to buy in numbers.
 

w16227

Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14206542#post14206542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefswinger
thanks both of you.! yes i do enjoy the corner tank thread. as for moving the jets , thats the first time i heeard/read that so thanks for that. as for taking my time , i understand that and will try to continue to show some restraint. so a fish a week sound about right? ok. as for the reef i'm with you thats what i'm looking forward to . however the kids wanna see some fish ,lol. i've heard/read mixed reviews on the bio balls and purposly pointed out that i had those in there. if there so bad WHY DO THEY EVEN SELL THESE THINGS ! LOL. ok so ill be needing some rubble now.... as far as inverts i like many ,love the pepermint shrimp but looking for compatability/longevity/#'s. /etc.





p.s. what do you think of this sale? i', about 3 hours away.. it isn't pre drilled though.. good quarentine/display maybe? good price?



Bio balls have their place - but not in a reef tank. My local LFS (a GOOD saltwater shop) uses them for their fish displays. Their corals are on a separate water chain.

As for "one" a week - way too fast.


http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php


In a 90 - you can probably add 2 at a time - but you need to go slow. If you add one a week - you could easily ad a diseased fish and not realize it until after you add several others. Plus - no way to quarantine them.

Even worse - you can overload the biological capability of the tank and not discover it until it is too late. Whenever you add livestock to the tank - you are changing the overall chemistry of the tank. Fish add waste- which needs to be converted by the bacteria grown during your initial cycle. You in effect are causing a mini cycle - as the bacteria may need to ramp up to handle the load. After a time- the chemistry reaches equilibrium again. By adding a fish a week - you may cause a spike in the system.

Go slow - add 2-3 to start if you want to, then do not add any more until you get a QT up and running. Then, the QT itself will help you meter the fish input. 1-2 fish in QT for 4-6 weeks - then repeat.
 

reefswinger

New member
i'm aware i need a quarintine. i also know i am not waiting to have 1 before i start buying some livestock. so wish me luck. as for your recommendation on addition schedule ,that has some merit. getting 2-3 fish and waiting a few weeks sounds do able. im tring to be honest about my limitations and am looking for good advice based on those limitations. another 1 for negative on bio balls. ok thanks
 

reefswinger

New member
btw any opinions on some of these 'clean crew' packages? obviously they are cheaper/handier than buying seperate. for instance
10 scarlet hermits
10 blueleg hermits
2 brittle starfish
1 coral banded shrimp
3 emerald crab
20 turbo /astrea snails
2 cleaner clams
10 nassarious snails
for $95. or something similar to this.
 

spoofer

New member
sounds like a good deal, Oh one big thumbs up for the coral banded shrimp- i have one, but i've heard of others having disgruntal ones' - for what it's worth though i dig'm there awesome nocturnal scavengers.
 

phish guy

New member
the only problem with adding all the CUC at once, ecspecially early on, is if there isnt enough for them to eat some will die. its a good deal for all those animals, but adding them to the tank as you go is better, in my opinion.
 
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