Skunk Clown Hybrids (Version 2/20/2010)

WDLV

Skunk Hybrid Freak
I've posted on this topic before, but figured I'd post an update so I have something I can link to when I get questions on the topic.

Skunk Clown Varients:
Who's Whom?

I have had the pleasure of seeing quite a number of skunk hybrid photographs in recent years. Some in books and magazines, some through personal communications and even more via online forums and magazines.

To date, I have also been fortunate to observe two WC (wild collected) thiellei specimens, four WC leucokranos specimens and three CR (captive raised) leucokranos in my own private systems.

A. leucokranos
46_pxcn.jpg

Photo: Walter D. LaRoque V

The general consensus about A. leucokranos is that it is a hybrid of A. sandaracinos and A. chrysopterus. I confirmed this same belief with other expert aquarists such as Bruce Carlson of the Georgia Aquarium and formerly the Wikiki Aquarium as well as Joe Yaiullo and Todd Gardner of Atlantis Marine World in Riverhead NY and Fernando Nosratpour of the Breeds Aquarium at Scripps who was the first to breed the fish in captivity.

On page 87 of Fautin and Allen's book, the second picture shows two A. leucokranos. The first has no saddle at the tail base. The second has a bit of a white saddle at the tail base though it is difficult to make out due to the angle of the shot. All seven of the leucokranos clowns that I have possessed have had a hazy white marking at the tail base too. This includes three captive bred and four wild collected specimens.

On page 85 of Fautin and Allen's book there is another picture of an A. leucokranos that is said to be crossed with A. chrysopterus. It seems that at the time that my edition was printed (1994) that A. leucokranos was considered to be a separate species. Knowing what we know now I would just call it A. leucokranos because A. chrysopterus and A. sandaracinos are the generally assumed parents of this hybrid. A cross would simply mean a more recessive appearance of the sandaracinos parent traits.
The parental origins of A. leucokranos has been partially confirmed. I have seen photos of a leucokranos coming from two A. sandaracinos parents courtesy of Alexandre da Cunha of Brazil.
Alexandre da Cunha was the first person I know of who raised A. leucokranos from sandaracinos parents. The leucokranos offspring are pictured below.

Note:
I photoshopped this photo for better resolution. So, color accuracy may have been compromised.
47_nrvn.jpg

Photo: Alexandre da Cunha
Used with permission


This next shot is of poor quality but does show the body plan of the two above a little better.
48_enmm.jpg

Photo: Alexandre da Cunha
Used with permission

Alexandre said that out of six fry that survived past metamorphosis, that four had typical sandaracinos characteristics and 2 had leucokranos characteristics. Quite by accident he has reinforced the belief that sandaracinos is one of the parents.

I have had conversations with Bruce Carlson who has seen these fish in association with A. chrysopterus and A. sandaracinos in the wild and was the first to hypothesize that A. chrysopterus and A. sandaracinos were the likely parent species. After passing this idea on to Dr. Gerald Allen, this hunch was reinforced by Gerry's sighting of a chrysopterus/sandaracinos pair with a full term clutch. This discussion is documented on p. 37 of "œThe Amphiprion leucokranos Mystery" by Bruce Carlson in Vol 3. No. 3 issue of Aquarium Frontiers Magazine.
Mr. Carlson referred me to Fernando Nosratpour of the Birch Aquarium at Scripps. Mr. Nosratpour is credited with being the first person to breed a pair of A. leucokranos in captivity. Mr. Nosratpour referred me to an article that he wrote. Published in the March/April 1997 issue of Aquarium Frontiers magazine, it was titled "œAmphiprion leucokranos "“ A Case For Hybridization." In the article it discussed the methods used to breed the pair and more importantly for this discussion, the variants in the offspring. The following results were given on page 18 of the issue. Complete with photos. By the way, most of these photos show a saddle-like marking on the base of the tail.

"œPigmentation types of tank-reared A. leucokranos and percent occurrence from a total of 32 individuals.

Leucokranos type "“ 28.1 percent
Chrysopterus type "“ 12.5 percent
Sandaracinos type "“ 15.6 percent
Perideraion type "“ 9.4 percent
Interdeterminate "“ 34.4 percent"

I think this helps back up the hypothesis that A. leucokranos is indeed a hybrid between A. chrysopterus and A. sandaracinos.

I have spoken with Dr. Daphne Fautin regarding this fish. While prefacing that "˜Gerry is more the fish expert' she did discuss with me some details of his findings, thoughts and conclusions. Dr. Allen was among the first to find evidence that A. leucokranos was a hybrid of A. sandaracinos/chrysopterus based on a suggestion by Bruce Carlson.
 
A. thiellei:
49_s2ge.jpg

Photo: Walter D. LaRoque V

A. thiellei is “reddish-orange with single relatively narrow white head bar; also small white saddle on top edge of tail base. Maximum length 65mm.” (Fautin and Allen, Anemone Fish And Their Host Anemones 1994 edition p110)
Mike Thielle of Reef Encounter in NJ was the first person recorded to have possessed a pair of A. thiellei and is the gentleman for whom the species is named.

I have been in contact with Mike Thielle. He was kind enough to pass on to me the original description written up by Dr. Burgess and photos of his current specimens. One of which was among those pictured in my 1994 edition of Fautin and Allen’s field guide. In case you’re not doing the math, that means that this fish has been alive in captivity for 15+ years. Her mate has been with her since about 2006. He said that he’s seen twenty or so come through his store through the years. I presume he meant since 1981; though it was first reported to Dr. Burgess in 1979. Many were DOA, which provided the carcasses with which Dr. Burgess made his original description.
The following five pictures are of Mike Thielle's stock.
50.jpg

Photo: Aaron Norman
Used With Permission
51.jpg
52.jpg

Photos: Mike Thielle
Used with permission

53.jpg
54.jpg

Photos: Aaron Norman
Used With Permission

As far as I can tell, Matias Gomes of Portugal was the second person to have acquired a pair. According to Matias, a friend of his had collected the specimens, having imported them one at a time in his coat pocket. Tragically, Matias lost his specimens along with 80% of his coral farm after a malfunction with a protein skimmer wiped out the system they were in.
The following pictures are of Matias' thiellei clowns.
55.jpg

Photo: Antonio Amaral
Used With Permission

56.jpg

Photo: Antonio Amaral
Used With Permission

58.jpg

Photo: Antonio Amaral
Used With Permission

The two thielleis that I possess were obtained from two different retailers on opposite US coasts. Both cited the collector as having shipped from Cebu, Philippines. If they were collected close to the shipping point, this would be consistent with the range suggested in Fautin and Allen’s field guide.
These are the two specamins I'm currently keeping. The photo was taken shortly after the quarrantine of the second fish.

59.jpg

Photo: Walter D. LaRoque V

It has been rumored that experts such as Drs. Fautin and Allen believe that A. thiellei may be a hybrid. I have confirmed with Dr. Fautin that it is her belief that A. thiellei is a hybrid cross of A. sandaracinos and A. chrysopterus; which is the same hybrid cross as A. leucokranos. This is to say that she believes that they are the same fish.
Per a discussion with Mike Thielle, I was informed that Dr. Burgess does not share this view.
So, of the two gentlemen that I consider to be the foremost experts on anemonefish (Dr Allen and Dr. Burgess) there is no consensus as to whether they are a true species or a natural hybrid.


I’ve spoken with two members on rareclownfish.com who have A. thiellei individuals. One is a classic example, the other is a bit less cut and dry. Both individuals cite their source as being from the Philippine Islands. One is specifically from Cebu.

I have neither the room the time, nor the breeding experience to try multiple mixed pairs in hopes of getting a confirmation of the parent species, but I would love to know about it if others are able to do so.

My second thiellei was obtained in July 2009. I paired the two in August. Hopefully in a year or so I will get some babies to do a visual comparison of the offspring.

Some might say A. thiellei’s status as a species is “provisional.” Either way, I find this “species” fascinating. Whether it retains it’s species status over time, becomes known as the Thielle hybrid or becomes recognized as a new and developing species within the Amphiprion genus seems immaterial.
I for one believe that this fish is an A. sandaracinos-ocellaris hybrid but I also believe that this hybrid provides an insight to how new species are created within the genus.
More research is needed.
 
A. thiellei -vs- A. leucokranos

It is the belief of some experts that A. thiellei and A. leucokranos are sandaracinos/chrysopterus hybrids. Based on body plan, coloration and markings I agree that the thiellei "species" is probably a hybrid. I also believe that there is sufficient evidence to support that A. leucokranos is a hybrid. This is based on accounts from multiple individuals in both the scientific community and the hobbyist community. However, I do not feel that thiellei is a hybrid of the exact same origin.

I must preface the following statement in saying that I by no means would have the audacity to call myself an expert in Anemonefish but would venture to say that I have probably studdied these fish more than most marine aquarists. While I agree that there is strong evidence to support that A. leucokranos is a cross of A. sandaracinos and A. chrysopterus, I theorize that if A. thiellei is a hybrid that it is likely a cross between A. sandaracinos and A. ocellaris. This is based on region of collection, body coloration, eye coloration, bar shape, bar border contrast and location as well as general body plan.
Specifically, while A. thiellei has a sort of burnt orange coloration, A. leucokranos tends to present more of a yellow to light brown coloration.

Thiellei always seems to have more contrast in its barring. Particularly with regard to the saddle-like marking at its caudal peduncle (tail base.) A. leucokranos tends to have a fading border on some of its markings particularly the saddle at the caudal peduncle... when present.

A. leucokranos tends to have a body plan resembling A. chrysopterus. It is thicker from its anterior to dorsal aspect giving it a more stocky appearance. A. thiellei has a body plan that is more long and slender. Its body plan is almost exactly like A. ocellaris.

While I am aware that there were other parent species candidates that reside in the Philippines, they either lacked similar base coloration, barring or barring contrast or else they were too far off from the body plan that is seen in A. thiellei. A. thiellei is not found with a mid-bar or a full tail bar but rather follows the pattern of the sandaracinos dorsal stripe and the head bar that ocellaris would have as a juvenile. The dorsal stripe may occur thicker in areas where an ocellaris bar would occur with particular regard to the tail bar.
The closest runners up were A. percula and A. perideraion. I discounted A. percula because of its propensity toward barring outside its normal borders and a tendency to have very large fading black borders surrounding its bars. There is a conspicuous lack of these traits in all documented specimens of A. thiellei. I discounted A. perideraion because of its coloration and body plan. Pink coloration is never seen in A. thiellei.

Size matters... A. thiellei is the smallest of any anemonefish species ever described. I don't know enough about genetics to rule out a dwarfing trait that might surface but I think it stands to reason that the smallest species described is less likely to come from a fairly large parent (A. sandaracinos) and one that takes the record for the largest anemonefish species (A. chrysopterus.)



Tail coloration... I gave consideration to the variants of A. chrysopterus. There are yellow and white tail variants of A. chrysopterus, which may account for the different appearance between the two hybrids. Some regions have chrysopterus displaying white tails while others have the variant with yellow tails.

Another interesting possibility posed by my friend Daniel Pauletti is that the body plan of the offspring could be contingent on which of the parents was dominant. He made the comparison to mules' body plans depending on the parent donkey and horse genders. If this is the case, it seems logical that in most cases the chrysopterus would be the dominant (female) parent because they are larger and faster growing by nature. A dominant sandaracinos would be the exception to the rule and would dominate the body plan and coloration. I think this is a good theory, but I tend to discount it because A. thiellei has a deeper orange than any sandaracinos I have ever seen.
 
Other Skunk Hybrids

I have tried to examine as many oddities as possible to get a better idea of what other crosses might look like.
There are far more naturally occurring hybrids than those that have species names.
Some of them are pictured below.

60.jpg



Photo: Bruce Carlson
Used with permission

Above: A specimen collected in Fiji. It is believed to be a cross of A. melanopus and A. perideraion.

Below: A possible hybrid cross of A. perideraion and A. leucokranos. Note the stripes bordering the top and bottom of the tail. This is a trait occasionally exhibited by A. perideraion males.
61.jpg

Photo: Leonard Ho
Used with permission

Below: The following two pictures are likely representations of A. leucokranos exhibiting predominantly chrysopterus features.

62.jpg

Photo: Jordan Noe
Used with permission
63.jpg

Photo: Jordan Noe
Used with permission

Below: A possible A. leucokranos with chrysopterus-dominant features (top) and an A. chrysopterus (bottom.)
64.jpg

Photo: Jordan Noe
Used with permission

I will update this article (on my PWP) periodically as I compile and sort additional data and photos.
If you have photos or information that may add to the content of this article I would very much appreciate hearing from you. ~

Acknowledgements:
I’d like to extend a special thanks to the following gracious individuals for taking the time to answer my questions and or providing pictures.

Dr. Daphne Fautin
Alexandre da Cunha
Fernando Nosratpour
Bruce Carlson
Mike Thielle
Aaron Norman
Daniel Pauletti
Julian Sprung
Matias Gomes
Last but not least I would like to thank all my friends on reef forums around the world. My hobby is rich because of your contributions.

Resources:
Fautin, D. and Allen, G.
"Anemone Fishes and their Host Sea Anemones" 1994

Nosratpour, F.
“Amphiprion leucokranos – A Case For Hybridization.”
Aquarium Frontiers Magazine
March/April 1997

Carlson, B.
"The Amphiprion leucokranos Mystery"
Aquarium Frontiers Magazine
Vol 3. No. 3 1996

Reef Central online Community

Rare Clownfish Online Community

Reef Forum Online Community

Reef Encounters Online Resource
 
Thanks B. You still have my e-mail right? If you have a good anemone shot or two, shoot them over to me. Mine are mostly in sterile tanks. I'd like to get some more natural looking shots.

I've pretty well decided on a best possible host for my thielleis, but it will be a difficult one to keep. I picked S. mertensii, due to the fact that both suspected parent species are hosted in them in nature. It seems like a logical choice. That said mine have reluctantly accepted E. quads and dived directly into an H. mag within seconds.
 
I figured I'd "BUMP" this for some discussion that was hijacking someone else's thread. Sorry about the missing pictures. I let my site go down as there didn't seem to be a great deal of interest and it was costing me money. If anyone wants to see any pictures in particular, let me know and I'll dig them up for you.
 
You can start a new thread if you want, but I don't think were are that far off.

It is interesting that you have noticed the "brown out" in your fish that is similar to what happens with the white tailed chrysopterus, but doesn't seem to happen with sandaracinos. I wonder if it is food related or habitat related (ie, not enough room, to much stress, etc.)

I have noticed color changes in A. sandaracinos and A. perideraion. I was able to get the latter from almost white to pink. I also have seen the same brown out in A. thiellei that I've seen in A. ocellaris.
 
Thanks for the pictures. I don't know how I missed this thread when you first posted it. It must have been when I was taking a bit of a break from RC.

FWIW, I totally agree with your hypotheses regarding leucokranos and thiellei. I was lucky enough to see Fernando's pair and the offspring. It was very interesting. The mixed phenotypes of the offspring do not match MarinaP's results with her breedings. She says her babies all showed the leuc phenotype.

I have kept and bred sandaracinos for a long time. I haven't seen much of a change in color as they got older. One of my female was WC and is over 10 yo and my male (TR) is over 9. I also never noticed much of a change in my ocellaris that were over 10 yo. However, the change in my white tail chryopsterus was very dramatic and took only a few months. Pretty much every other hobbiest has noticed the same thing.

I have attached a couple pics. The first pic is my chrysopterus just out of QT with his/her orange skunk friend. The second is the same two fish 5 months later is a small mertensii. The color change in the chrys happened before their move into the carpet.
The next three pics are my female leuc with her orange skunk escort during my failed attempt to split my large mertens in 2006. She was one of the meanest clowns I have ever had. Sorry the pics are not great. I was trying to show what was happening with the anemone at the time.

Since Allen actually found a Chysopterus x sandarcino pair and supposedly someone lifted a clutch and raised them and at least some showed the leuc phenotype. I have wondered if this pairing maybe only had to happen once. This single pair could have produced hundreds if not thousands of offspring. These hybrids seem to mix back with chrys. and sandarcinos, but also with clarki and pink skunks according to an article in Aquarium Frontiers. I don't remember if it was by Allen or Carlson. The occurrence of leuc pairs was actually less common than a mixed pair. This could explain the endless variation we see in the phenotypes of leucs.

I remember the pics from the Brazilian gentleman who bred the sandaracinos and got leucs. I would like to see those pics again. I remember thinking that they looked more like mis-marked sandaracinos than they looked like leucs. Since they were captive raised, mis-marking seemed a more reasonable explanation.
 

Attachments

  • gChrysXsand2.jpg
    gChrysXsand2.jpg
    34.1 KB · Views: 1
  • gLilMertens41105.jpg
    gLilMertens41105.jpg
    44.6 KB · Views: 0
  • gMerten1Nov2606.jpg
    gMerten1Nov2606.jpg
    59.3 KB · Views: 1
  • gMerten6Days2.jpg
    gMerten6Days2.jpg
    69.4 KB · Views: 0
  • gMerten7Day1.jpg
    gMerten7Day1.jpg
    65.4 KB · Views: 1
Yeah, I've had my hobby in the back seat for the last couple years. I sold off all my leucs and I've not kept any cnidarians in a while.

I have a home video that Bruce's wife shot. It featured a leucokranos going back and forth between two anemones. One had pink skunks and the other had..... I just remembered, he posted it on youtube when I was having a discussion with him about it a while back....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH60BaB5SvE

Anyway, he was the one who suggested to Gerry Allen that it might be a hybrid.

Nice pics, BTW.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top