So do we want nutrients or not?

[djkms]

I think increased feeding also adds extra organics which can't be measured by most of us given the limits of hobby grade equipment and are often ignored . Too much can s be harmful n terms of TOC. Skimming, gac ,detritus removal and even mechanical fitration like socks and such become more important in heavily fed tanks even when PO4 and NO3 are low.

On the flip side animals need to eat and frozen foods add to the planktonic mix in the water.


There is limit to carbon dosing in terms of NO3 and PO4 reduction which becomes very evident in bacterial stands throughout the system when it's ovedosed. So, while organic carbon dosing enables higher feeding levels with low PO4 and NO3, one really can't just keep upping the import /export ante.

I feed a about 50 fish in my system heavily about 2 ounces of frozen food per day with some nori and flakes and manage NO3 and PO4 via dosing vodka and vinegar at moderte levels. This has wroked very well for corals in the sps dominant sytem too. Cyano is absent as is almost all nuisance algae.

I think though that there is a limit on food imports whether dosing organic C or not and that balance will vary for each aquarium.

WOW, 2 oz a day :fun5: Thats like a flat pack of Rods every 3 days! You must have one heck of a skimmer to remove all that waste.

I dose 105ml per day of vinegar in my 225 gallon to maintain level NO3/PO4. I feed 2 cubes of mysis per day, 3 pinches of NLS pellets 3 times a day and a 1/2 sheet of nori every other day and I feel like I am overfeeding my 20 fish.

 

[Baros]

Any pictures of your SPS corals?

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/88-tank-of-the-month

 

[tmz]

WOW, 2 oz a day :fun5: Thats like a flat pack of Rods every 3 days! You must have one heck of a skimmer to remove all that waste.

I dose 105ml per day of vinegar in my 225 gallon to maintain level NO3/PO4. I feed 2 cubes of mysis per day, 3 pinches of NLS pellets 3 times a day and a 1/2 sheet of nori every other day and I feel like I am overfeeding my 20 fish.

I dose 368 ml vinegar equivalents( 36ml vodka and 80 ml vinegar) for 650 gallons. I run gac and two asm 4xx skimmers with diy CO2 scrubbers on them. There are also several cryptic refugia. In the last month I started dosing a half teaspoon of aspartic acid once per week. PO4 is around .03ppm ;NO3 around 0.2 to 1ppm.

 

[tmz]

Any pictures of your SPS corals?

Here are a few random photos from a couple of weeks ago;I need to get better wit hthe camera:


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2310686&highlight=puddle

 

[biggles]

That's why I said optimally you don't want to be running massive amounts of gfo or dosing massive amounts of carbon to offset massive amounts of food. That really isn't "optimal" that's where you start walking a fine line where the tank can fail with the smallest misstep. You always want to go middle of the road with your tank imop so you have safety nets on both side if you make any mistakes.

I tend to run my tank along the same lines as MammothReefer when it comes to giving my SPS water borne nutrition.
Although i keep my levels at zero on my aquarium test kits i also like to see a very light presence of brown algae at all times and the macro algae i grow in the display requires monthly pruning so i think there are obviously trace amounts of phos and nitrates available. I have a very low fish load but the tank still receives 7 feeds a day, 2 x fish pellets and 5 x coral food. It's taken 7 months to build up the tanks bio filtration capabilities to handle the feedings and still keep undetectable phos and nitrates with just live rock and the skimmer but my system is booming with micro life which is probably benefiting from the coral feedings too and contributing greatly to coral food available in the water column 24/7.
I know that running your system with very low levels of phos and nitrate detectable works because heaps of you here have stunning displays doing so. I sometimes wonder though if you have those results despite your elevated levels not because of their presence and that the food being introduced for the fish is also heavily feeding the corals. I think my 'zero' levels are just at zero on out test kits and your very low readings are a lot closer to my levels than many might realise, hope you follow what i mean. I strongly believe that running zero levels is also working for me due to the natural filtration and all live rock rather than a more sterile approach using dry rock to start the tank. I think i have a much larger diversity of life and food available to my SPS than i would have if i'd used dead rock so perhaps that is also a contributing factor to why i have success running zero levels.
I hope this discussion continues as SPS really do benefit from being fed via the water column, we just need to work out the best overall approach to achieving this with the least risk and stress involved lol. :thumbsup:

 

[Rwpdunne]

Here are a few random photos from a couple of weeks ago;I need to get better wit hthe camera:


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2310686&highlight=puddle

Very nice reef you have there thanks for the link

Robbie

 

[tmz]

I hope this discussion continues as SPS really do benefit from being fed via the water column, we just need to work out the best overall approach to achieving this with the least risk and stress involved lol. :thumbsup:


I strongly believe there is more than one best way or at least we are all a long way from finding it.
Sharing our insights , experiences and observations can help us all gain new insights and help the hobby evolve

I also use "live rock " in large quantity throughout the system including extra amounts in cryptic refugia. Some dry rock to which also becomes live rock in a relatively short time. A small chaetomorpha refugium too; which doesn't grow much though.
The differences between undetectable readings on hobby grade test kits and very low readings of .03/.05ppm PO4 and 0.2ppmNO3 is very small ; some of it may be testing noise. Certainly algae growth indicates some presence of N and P in any case.

The test numbers are useful but less important than the actual presence of a food and nutrient sources as dissolved organic material and as dissolved inorganic material in my aquariums anyway.

I agree that having plankton in the water is a plus and run the system without socks and such except for one drain from the seahorse tank.. There is quite a bit of planktonic matter including , micro fuana evident in the water , easily seen at night. Pods, mini seprent stars and other benthic fauna scoot around are plentiful .Sponges are proliferous. several non photosynthetic corals(dedrophylia) do well along with the sps and lps; I have several manadarins who are long lived fat and healthy.

Personally when I push for undetecable PO4 with extra gfo or NO3 becomes undetectable on the Sailfert kit corals start to pale a bit even with no change in feeding . I test frequently .
IMO. both dissolved inorganic nitrogen and phosphorous and organic sources are important .

 

[tmz]

Very nice reef you have there thanks for the link

Robbie

Thankyou Robbie.