sound dampening box for external pump

[malicemethods]

I got a Danner Pondmaster Mag-Drive 350 GPH Water Pump to run the water from my refugium to the display tank. I'll be running it externally so i was worried about the sound of the pump bc the tank is in my room right next to my bed. I made a box out of 3/4" pine plywood and lined the inside with old carpet to dampen the sound from the pump. I made 3 holes for the power cord, inflow and outflow. The box completely covers the whole pump and some parts of the carpet are touching the pump. I was worried that the pump might get so hot inside the box and maybe even cause the carpet inside the box to catch on fire. will this be a possible fire hazard?

Power Consumption: 35 Watts, 115V/60Hz, 0.7 Amps

 

[scaryperson27]

yes. Don't do it.

The pump will eventually collect enough heat in that little box to cause some kind of trouble whether it be the shaft swelling, the carpet catching on fire like you said, which would most likely be due to the fact that the wires are probably going to melt due to the heat causing the opposing polarities to contact...

I would just deal with the noise.

 

[bguile]

...or just get a quiet pump. There are tons of threads with recommendations.

 

[manderx]

since mags are water cooled, i would not expect it to get hot inside the box.

 

[RWillieK]

Even running submersible, Mag drive pumps run HOT! I have a Mag 5 that will raise the temp in a 5-gallon bucket to over 95*

Robbie

 

[loves saltwater]

I agree I have a mixing pump for my saltwater (mag 5) in a 20 gallon rubbermaid it will raise the temp of the water to about 90 degrees while mixing water.

 

[tkeracer619]

I do not think it would get too hot to catch fire. IF this is the only concern then add holes for a fan.

I do think it is a bad idea and would not do it. Only because you wont have a visual on the pump. IE a small leak might go un-noticed untill it fails completly when your not home...

If you have your mag plumbed with hard piping then that will be the source of a lot of noise. Mag pumps are not rediculously loud if plumbed properly. The intake needs to have very free flow if it is to be external. I would supply it via a bulkhead under the water line if external.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10538391#post10538391 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
yes. Don't do it.

The pump will eventually collect enough heat in that little box to cause some kind of trouble whether it be the shaft swelling, the carpet catching on fire like you said, which would most likely be due to the fact that the wires are probably going to melt due to the heat causing the opposing polarities to contact...

I would just deal with the noise.

I do not agree with a word of this. It is pure conjecture... but based on what? What temperature do wires melt? At what temperature do motor windings melt? At what temperature does carpet catch on fire?

When you can get a 35W pump to catch carpet on fire, please let me know. If the added heat from running the pump like this causes the insulation to melt and a short to start a fire, then the pump is a boarderline firetrap to begin with.

 

[Donw]

I run a mag nine external in a sealed 1/2 acrylic box to prevent leakage and noise. There is no air hole and has been mixing my sw like this for two years almost 24/7. The box does get warm but I would assume if it was getting to hot the acrylic box would fall apart which it hasnt yet.

Don

 

[manderx]

Even running submersible, Mag drive pumps run HOT! I have a Mag 5 that will raise the temp in a 5-gallon bucket to over 95*

exactly. since it's water cooled the water warms up, not the pump.

 

[scaryperson27]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10587376#post10587376 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I do not agree with a word of this. It is pure conjecture... but based on what? What temperature do wires melt? At what temperature do motor windings melt? At what temperature does carpet catch on fire?

When you can get a 35W pump to catch carpet on fire, please let me know. If the added heat from running the pump like this causes the insulation to melt and a short to start a fire, then the pump is a boarderline firetrap to begin with.

Are you saying he should run the risk of finding out? I just don't trust the idea. Whether you agree with it or not does not change my opinion. I don't know how to justify my response and frankly I don't care if it is complete conjecture. I'm sorry I didn't pull my schematics out and go through the scientific method. I just don't think he should risk it.

 

[cannarella]

If you are worried about sound and heat why don't you just run in submersed? I doubt that it will produce enough heat where the carpet will catch on fire unless it sparks from the wires melting and then arcing which is unlikely. Yes your are going to build up heat but all this may do is shorten the life of the pump.

How loud is it? Is it going to be in a stand or out in the open?

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10591833#post10591833 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
Are you saying he should run the risk of finding out?

What risk? That is the point.

I just don't trust the idea. Whether you agree with it or not does not change my opinion.

Exactly. It is YOUR opinion, and one that is not well founded.

I don't know how to justify my response and frankly I don't care if it is complete conjecture.

So it is pure opinion. There is nothing wrong with that, but just be prepared for people to disagree.

I'm sorry I didn't pull my schematics out and go through the scientific method. I just don't think he should risk it.

Nobody asked you to pull anything out. Just don't get upset when somebody with better information disagrees with your opinion.

 

[argetni44]

some car stereo systems use rubber called dynamat to reduce vibration from the bass... maybe you should consider purchasing a small kit of that and lining the box with dynamat instead of the carpet... lower fire hazard, and better vib. reducting... i work with TONS of pumps, and mags are by far the loudest and pretty hot, but they do a damn good job

 

[BeanAnimal]

Dynamat is asphalt and rubber based. It is designed to dampen low frequency vibrations in panels. It does not do a good job when it comes to sound absorbing (nor does carpet). Melamine foam panels would work much better. You can get acoustic or melamine foam at mcmaster, grainger, partsexpress, etc.

 

[cannarella]

Hey malicemethods post up some pics of what you are trying to do/have done. Maybe the solution is to just drill some holes for the heat to escape?

argetni44, how hot do MAGs get? I would gess the low hundreds if that. Just wondering.

I still say just stick the pump in the fuge and then you have one less heater to run.

 

[argetni44]

as for the bickering, scientific methods, and schematics, i really used none of that, i just have a little base knowledge in numerous areas of life, and i applied a little common sense...

carpet is pretty close to lint on the conductor scale... im an outdoorsman as well, and i know that i wouldnt want a hot pump like a mag drive to be suffocating in a carpet filled box that could go up in flames in an instant... i have seen what overheated pumps can do to their own plastic enclosure, let alone a DIY cat scratching post turned inside out...

also, we arent talking about melting wires, we're talking about melting the wire insulation, exposing the wires causing an arching effect, which is hella dangerous... i've done some electrical work too... and i know this from experience...

do yourself a big favor malice... even though it's only 350GPH Mag @ 35 watts, and don't risk it with the carpet... go rubber... check out dynamat at http://www.dynamat.com/products_intro.html the license plat kit at http://www.dynamat.com/products_intro.html should be enough to cover your box i imagine... it's 4" x 10" and costs $15. you can order it on that second website. it's a little more pricey than the carpet, but WELL worth it. you may also consider drilling a few exhaust holes in the box at 1/2" hope this helps

 

[RichConley]

Its 35w. Just throw it in the sump. If you really want to run it externally, buy a different pump.


People have a ton of problems getting mags to seal properly, and you're not going to save any heat running it externally

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10593111#post10593111 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by argetni44
carpet is pretty close to lint on the conductor scale... im an outdoorsman as well, and i know that i wouldnt want a hot pump like a mag drive to be suffocating in a carpet filled box that could go up in flames in an instant...

Carpet is not anywhere near "lint" Most carpet is synthetic fiber. Not only that, it is engineered to be somewehat fire resistant (low flame spread index).

also, we arent talking about melting wires, we're talking about melting the wire insulation, exposing the wires

Ahh and that question then becomes at what temperature does insulation melt? Without getting "techincal" lets just say it is at a much higher temperature than you little carpet insulation is going to push the pump to.

Even CHEAP (read garbage) speaker wire has an operating range of well over 145F and a melting point far above that safety margin. Magnet wire (the stuff the motor is wound with) has an extremely high operating temperature rating. It is not uncommon for electric motors to get so hot that you can not touch them. Many motor have a 190F degree or so thermal protection cutout. Standard Romex wire is rated at 194F (but can go much higher)

Get your 35W magdrive to 190F under any reasonable circumstances (box or no box), and I will buy you a cookie.

do yourself a big favor malice... even though it's only 350GPH Mag @ 35 watts, and don't risk it with the carpet... go rubber... check out dynamat at http://www.dynamat.com/products_intro.html the license plat kit at http://www.dynamat.com/products_intro.html should be enough to cover your box i imagine... it's 4" x 10" and costs $15. you can order it on that second website. it's a little more pricey than the carpet, but WELL worth it. you may also consider drilling a few exhaust holes in the box at 1/2" hope this helps

As I have already mentioned, DYNAMAT flat out SUCKS for this purpose. It is made of asphalt and rubber and DOES NOT do squat for absorbing sound in the range that the OP would need. It is used to deaden (sound dampen) resonances in panels. It is good at keeping panels from resonating due to the stereo system and/or mid-high freq road noise.

The dynamat will also certainly create a hot environment inside the lined box.

Drilling holes in the box? Well that lets out the sound

I never said carpet was a a good idea (there are much better products). I am just saying that the pump is not going to go up in flames. The idea is just silly.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10593309#post10593309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Its 35w. Just throw it in the sump. If you really want to run it externally, buy a different pump.


People have a ton of problems getting mags to seal properly, and you're not going to save any heat running it externally

Likely the best idea of all.. Throw it on a rubber pad in the sump. Connect it with soft couplers to your hard plumbing.

If it is still an issue, get a eheim or two.