Sparking red slime outbreak.. toxic N's+P(?)

[Samala]

Well, first, I have no lovely pictures this time of the latest algae outbreak and the red slime takeover in the tank. For a quick update, I moved all the contents of my previous seagrass tank into a larger tank and added some dead sand into the mix to adjust for bed height.

That said, this tank is still in cycling stage and its agony for me. Nitrates are holding around 20ppm, ammonia is still present, nitrites are off the charts (5ppm or more it seems). To this lovely brew last week I added in some phosphate, just to see what would happen.

Considering the last time I had OD'd phosphate I had green film explode out of sight I expected lots of green film, but thats not what happened. The last few times I've played with the tank, when phosphate is unreadable and ammonia is present I get diatoms. Diatoms falling back actually are a hallmark of the end of the cycle in these two seagrass tanks. The diatom blooms have finally started to wane, which tells me the ammonia phase is nearly over. When ammonia and nitrite were unreadable and phosphate was high, green film took over.

With ammonia, nitrite and phosphate high I got an explosion of red slime. This is the first time I've seen this algae in the tank. I imagine spores of it were always present and were simply waiting for the 'right' conditions for it to grow. (Or is red slime actually bacterial in nature?)

Anywho.. I was just wondering if this is consistent with what other people (who run a reef or a planted tank) are seeing? Usually when red slime breaks out I see phosban and other resins recommended to remove the excess P. But I dont see much mention of concurrent NH3/NH4+ or NO2 spikes in the tanks.

What do we think?
>Sarah

PS: I hope theres something useful in me wrecking havoc on my tanks in the name of figuring out algae dynamics...

 

[UprightJoe]

The red slime sounds like cyanbacteria. If you do a search for cyano, you can probably find a pictures for confirmation. Do you see bubbles underneath it? I think that's a clencher.

With my reef tank, I saw a cyano outbreak after the initial diatoms faded (I always see diatoms before anything). Unoftunately I'm not sure what my levels were at the time, I never saw high ammonia/nitrite levels with that tank (well cured rock).

Maybe the red cyano favors nitrites? It could explain why I saw it later in my cycle. Also, I've got diatoms on my rock in my new tank. I'll measure my params if I see it followed by cyano this time.

 

[Kelmen]

cyanobacteria isn't algae, its some kind of special bacteria with photosynthesis capability, if I'm not mistaken.

Gee, if you ever worked out something without the need of chemical product, I'm really interested.

I'm having them as nuisance in my refugium with macroalgae. I have constantly shake the plant to lose those slimy. With some on the sand bed, which I no longer bother to siphon, but put small snails onto them for best-wishs (nah, partially eaten only)

As far as water parameter, I don't any spike occured. Maybe I missed them, I only do chking about once per month
My param problem is only the high pH ( 8.8+ )

I'm tagging along. :|

 

[piercho]

Samala,
I started with a heavily sedimented 4" silica sandbed taken from a eelgrass bed. At about 6 months for a couple of months I had thick growth of cyano on the bed. I've seen lighter growths since then. For over 12 months I haven't seen any. During the time that I had the worst cyano, I never could get N or P readings in the tank (too low).

I think different blue-greens set up in different conditions. Some do well in eutrophic tanks, some do well when you can't get N and P readings at all. In my tank, my belief is that most of the cyano were fixers and were fed by P being cycled through the bed, and low N ratios at the sand/water interface.

I've never used antibiotics to deal with cyano. I haven't dosed N to try to supress it by diverting production, either. I haven't introduced conchs or other cyano grazers. I've siphoned out what I could, changed water when I felt the need, and just been patient. I have never had cyano since starting my turf scrubber and think that there is a lot of cyano/fixing happening there, but I have no microscope to examine the turf community for blue-greens.

Your goals are very different than mine, and you've seen a lot of growth in your grass in a short time from dosing nutrients. So I don't think our tank dynamics are really comparable. I can't give any relevant advise, just note what I've seen over four years.

Hey, my rabbitfish fell ill and suddenly died. No idea why, not oodinium although similar symptoms, people suggested a stomach infection. Anyway, I kept a population of star grass going in the sump and I'm finally getting a chance to put it in the tank. I also got a bristeltooth tang who does a swell job cleaning the grass blades. So, happy to finally get the stargrass going. You know, it seems to be a really easy grass, comparatively, just not resistant to heavy grazers. It should be more common in the hobby than it is.

 

[Samala]

Hmm.. it should have dawned on me before this how diverse the cyanobacteria group is and that whatever I have in my tank is most likely the one best adapted to the conditions. So perhaps all I can ever say is that this particular cyano - red/purple in color, lord knows I cant spare the time to ID under a scope - seems to like a cycling high nitrite and high P environment.

Howard your experience with your tank is priceless. I like hearing how other's tanks have evolved as far as algae population. Sorry to hear about the foxface.. At least, as you said, you can get the stargrass going in your tank. I would agree emphatically that it is a really easy grass once its established. It just takes some patience in the beginning. I would also agree that it should be much more common in the hobby - especially since it takes a relatively shallow bed.

I'm hoping to get a good colony of Halophila baillonis/ovalis (can never remember which is right) or 'paddlegrass' when I'm in the Keys mid-July.

Oh.. conch are cyano grazers??? Someone should tell my baby alatus to get on the job then! Lazy little thing isnt earning his keep.

>Sarah

 

[eleodes]

my system is still experiencing what i believe to be a cyano bloom. the stuff is the same color as the diatoms that bloomed when i first set it up, but i would say more <em>fuzzy</em> than <em>slimy</em>. i have also not bothered to try to get a positive ID. this bloom seems to have correlated with the establishment of my 30 gal (the newer of the two tanks) with 6" aragonite and volcanic sand DSB.

a few weeks back i started dosing N with "Flourish Nitrogen" because my seaweeds were languishing. they seemed to have responded fairly well. the cyano also seems to have slowed down (maybe due to P competition with the macros) but persists. i haven't been shooting any pictures of my tanks because all you see is an unsightly magenta-brown fog.

well those are just some observations anyhow

-D

 

[piercho]

Sprung has pictures of some Cyanos in his little algae book. Mine was like Phomidium and had a gelatinous form, but there are several genera like this, I think. Thinner red slimes are like Oscillatoria, but once again several similar genera.

Nothing ever ate this crap in my tank but the end of a siphon hose. The thick, gelatinous ones come out easy this way.

Paddlegrass is cool. You make me jealous with all your travels. When I was a younger guy I got around: Caribbean, Sea of Cortez, Cali coast and Channel Islands, even the Arctic once. But my aquatic pursuits then were pretty much limited to finding things to kill and eat. Get around while you can cause things seem to slow you down later for some reason.

We just bid on a house today and if it comes together I may be moving or shutting down the 65G in 4 weeks or so. Gotta get some pictures of the plants and such before that happens.