E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
Ah, so feed the bag before feeding the fish...gotch-ya.
Stop worrying about feeding your corals.
- Thread starter seapug
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tangyreefer05
New member
We could sum this thread up like this:
Of course we can't recreate the ocean, but we can try to mimic it. Our water is a lot cleaner than the ocean, less life swimming about, a lot less. Question is do corals benefit off this life? I'de say most do for some part but the sun is their main food source. Food isn't necessary for most/some corals to stay alive, however can be given to as a extra nutritional source. I feed at night. It can't really hurt anything unless you are going over bored with your feedings and causing more harm to the tank than good.
Of course we can't recreate the ocean, but we can try to mimic it. Our water is a lot cleaner than the ocean, less life swimming about, a lot less. Question is do corals benefit off this life? I'de say most do for some part but the sun is their main food source. Food isn't necessary for most/some corals to stay alive, however can be given to as a extra nutritional source. I feed at night. It can't really hurt anything unless you are going over bored with your feedings and causing more harm to the tank than good.
dcombs44
New member
Somewhat of a smart*** reply, but all the same...
It seems to me, since corals use these tools to intake food that it differs from your appendix comparison. If you cut my appendix out, I have no reason to grow a new one. Why do corals regenerate losses of tentacles, etc. That are used to help them eat. I ask this only because I don't know the answer.
glassbox-design
New member
they also use polyps to ....
absorb nitrogen and amonium
slime production and waste
reproduction
just like we use our mouths for much more than eating...
absorb nitrogen and amonium
slime production and waste
reproduction
just like we use our mouths for much more than eating...
Aquabucket
Premium Member
One of the best foods to feed a variety of corals comes right from your tank. By regularly basting your rockwork and other surface areas you are providing the water column with coral food (mulm, detritus, marine snow, bacterioplankton, etc...). If you have a shallow sand-bed ~ gently stirring it up also releases quite a bit of food for your corals. The problem is most people will skim all that good stuff out rather than keeping it in suspension for your corals and other inverts to consume.
sirjohn
Feeding Frenzied
Great post everyone! This is precisely why I like RC. Reading differing points of views on an debatable issue without the flames. Well, most of the time, anyways.
Booo! This reminds me of the attitude today by some self-labeled "progressives" on the issue of global warming... Oops, I did not mean to go there...
Booo! This reminds me of the attitude today by some self-labeled "progressives" on the issue of global warming... Oops, I did not mean to go there...
ThomasinKind
New member
Peter Eichler
New member
So his corals LPS corals grow slower without food because his "tank isn't set up properly"? It's obnoxious that you would even say that. There have been studies done that show calcification rates are much greater with corals that are fed zooplankton (see below from the article linked twice in this thread). I see you making all kinds of claims on these forums, often in an abrasive manner, but you rarely have sound information to back up your claims.
"I will finish this very brief coverage of zooplankton with several recent findings. In a September 2002 coral reef conference in Cambridge, several papers were presented that should give an idea of not only the very latest information, but also emphasize what is written above. Many years ago, one of the only complete energy budgets for a coral was done for what might be considered the ultimate shallow-water "SPS" coral, Acropora palmata (Bythell 1988, 1990). The study showed, basically, that 70% of this coral's nitrogen needs were met by feeding and that 91% of its carbon needs were met by light. At the 2002 conference, Bythell et al. examined three more corals, the larger polyped Montastraea cavernosa, M. annularis and Menadrina meandrites. They found zooplankton to provide 20-80 times the carbon and 112-460 times the nitrogen previously shown for Acropora palmata. Finally, Fanny et al. (2002) investigated the role of zooplankton consumption on the metabolism of the small-polyped coral, Stylophora pistillata under 3 different conditions of light (80, 200, 300 µmoles m-2 s-1) and 2 feeding regimes (Artemia and natural plankton). They found that regardless of light, fed corals had higher chlorophyll a concentrations, higher protein levels, and had photosynthesis rates 2-10 times higher than those deprived of food. This group also measured calcification rates, both in the dark and in light, and found that calcification, as is well known to be the case, is enhanced by light. However, for the first time it was shown that feeding results in calcification rates 50-75% higher than in control corals (not fed). It was also found that feeding does not affect the light-enhancement process of photosynthesis on calcification. To make these results completely understandable, if corals can feed on zooplankton, they will calcify 50-75% faster irrespective of light levels provided."
Certainly some corals can meet their nutritional requirements without the aquarist going out of his way to to provide foods specifically intended for said coral. However, if you want to have better growth rates and increase the ability of your corals to recover from damage and disease, supplemental feeding is a good idea.
RichConley
New member
And can you prove that the corals in the vast majority of tanks dont get zooplankton?
Because I'm pretty sure that with all the spawning shrimp, fish, and other invertebrates in my tank, theres plenty of zooplankton.
Again, you're putting words into my mouth that I never said. I'm not arguing that corals dont need food (although you seem to think I am). I'm arguing that they are GETTING FOOD, and that they dont need ADDITIONAL FOOD.
Aquabucket
Premium Member
The trouble with this thread is that many of you may be generalizing a bit to much and not considering the needs of individual corals. Some may do just fine with-out additional feedings while others will defiantly benefit from them. The key is to learn as much possible about each coral's needs and adjust accordingly.
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Peter Eichler
New member
I can show you articles that site how much our tanks lack zooplankton compared to the ocean (in fact I already did). Some aqariums will certainly have more than others depending on the inhabitants, but the chances of it coming close to reaching natural seawater levels probably isn't even possible in our little closed systems. Can you prove that your corals are growing as fast without supplemental feeding as they could with it?
Each tank is different, but you seem to be making broad generalizations about all corals and all aquariums. Perhaps they're getting food in your aquarium, but what about the person that has very little zooplankton or a very low fish load, or the person that doesn't even feed the fish they have.
Even if they don't NEED aditional food, isn't high growth rates something that most of us strive for? There are scientific studies out there pointing to greater growth rates as a result of supplemental feeding. Find me one that suggests not feeding will result in similar growth rates as opposed to feeding. This is of course with the assumption that the coral is known to ingest the food in question. Do you honestly stand by your statement that the guy who feels his LPS coral is growing faster with supplemental feeding than without is only experiencing that because his "tank isn't set up properly"?
W need to have non-destructive pumps with no filter bags in the tank .
Then there will be a chance for plankton and I'll bet dependance on high energy lights will deminish.
I don't add any of these commercial planktons because they just get minced by the pumps and add nitrate. Corals have evolved to capture living plankton, their sensory inputs do not trigger to grasp blenderized "plankton.
Then there will be a chance for plankton and I'll bet dependance on high energy lights will deminish.
I don't add any of these commercial planktons because they just get minced by the pumps and add nitrate. Corals have evolved to capture living plankton, their sensory inputs do not trigger to grasp blenderized "plankton.
glassbox-design
New member
but at the sacrifice of higher nutrient levels, n and p. obviously you've read borneman's article where he talks about this "catch-22".
Feeding is great, but the strides we've made in the past 10 years with specifically SPS have been because we've reduced nutrient load, not from feedings. We've shown that feedings are not necesary and great color and growth is attainable.
Right now that catch-22, is still just that and why like 'bucket said it depends on the animals and corals because with one comes the sacrifice of the other. (Such as the steps backwards we've taken with elegance corals...)
Feeding is great, but the strides we've made in the past 10 years with specifically SPS have been because we've reduced nutrient load, not from feedings. We've shown that feedings are not necesary and great color and growth is attainable.
Right now that catch-22, is still just that and why like 'bucket said it depends on the animals and corals because with one comes the sacrifice of the other. (Such as the steps backwards we've taken with elegance corals...)
Peter Eichler
New member
There have been articles showing that pumps don't do nearly as much damage to plantonic organism as one popular author once claimed. I add large amounts of cyclopezze, mysis, flake, and rotifers to my tank on a weekly basis and don't have to do anything special to maintain undetectable nitrate levels. I can also assure that even if Corals have not specifically evolved to catch many of the foods we feed our aquariums that they will absolutely gobble up things as alien to them as a big piece of flake food.
Peter Eichler
New member
I don't think anyone is claiming that we need to feed to the point that is causes excess nutrient levels. However, there are many people that virtually starve their tanks to maintain low nutrient levels when it's simply not neccessary and maybe even be detrimental.
<<< However, there are many people that virtually starve their tanks to maintain low nutrient levels when it's simply not neccessary and maybe even be detrimental. >>>
I agree......speaking for my tanks only, immediatly after I feed with Reef Chile, DT's Phyto or Oyster Eggs, Cyclopeeze, or whatever else I typically feed, I see most everything just 'wake up and come alive'. I doubt I would see these responses if everything I keep didn't want, didn't need, or couldn't nutritionally use any of the foods I use.
I agree......speaking for my tanks only, immediatly after I feed with Reef Chile, DT's Phyto or Oyster Eggs, Cyclopeeze, or whatever else I typically feed, I see most everything just 'wake up and come alive'. I doubt I would see these responses if everything I keep didn't want, didn't need, or couldn't nutritionally use any of the foods I use.
glassbox-design
New member
yeah but again, are they receiving any more benefit from coral specific foods than they would from fish food and and fish poop?
that's the big question...and right now for some corals it seems no, because we cannot add the type of food and the amount needed for them to benefit.
happy reefing.
eric
that's the big question...and right now for some corals it seems no, because we cannot add the type of food and the amount needed for them to benefit.
happy reefing.
eric
TriniStylez
New member
I think this is a great thread! Very interesting. Made me think about my tank...I really don't mind "experimenting" with my reef tank and how I maintain it, so I have tried many different "methods" including feeding and not feeding my corals. I have never noticed any difference either way.
But, it is important (as someone mentioned) to specify what kind of reef this is. Its a very basic set up with mostly softies and a few LPS. I have no sump or refugium, just a HOB skimmer and 50x flow. Not too many fish but a few "heavy" eaters. I do tend to slightly over feed my fish and some corals do get the extra food sometimes. Needless to say this is quite a high nutrient tank. I used to stress about keeping the nutrients low but honestly got sick of it, removed my refugium, allowed more nutrients in general and my tank has never looked better. Its nice to finally just sit back and enjoy the thing. I do also add phyto once a week or two...when I remember.
One coral I have kept successfully and was told it would not last and HAD to be sopt fed is my Goniopora lobata (Flower Pot). Its been over two years now and its at least tripled in size, looks incredible and I DO NOT spot feed it. I think the higher nutrients in my tank are helping this guy thrive.
But, it is important (as someone mentioned) to specify what kind of reef this is. Its a very basic set up with mostly softies and a few LPS. I have no sump or refugium, just a HOB skimmer and 50x flow. Not too many fish but a few "heavy" eaters. I do tend to slightly over feed my fish and some corals do get the extra food sometimes. Needless to say this is quite a high nutrient tank. I used to stress about keeping the nutrients low but honestly got sick of it, removed my refugium, allowed more nutrients in general and my tank has never looked better. Its nice to finally just sit back and enjoy the thing. I do also add phyto once a week or two...when I remember.
One coral I have kept successfully and was told it would not last and HAD to be sopt fed is my Goniopora lobata (Flower Pot). Its been over two years now and its at least tripled in size, looks incredible and I DO NOT spot feed it. I think the higher nutrients in my tank are helping this guy thrive.
TriniStylez
New member
Oh and I was NOT saying that feeding corals is not necessary...if it sounded like that. I just think its ridiculous, like most things in this hobby, to say there is a "right" way to do things. My brother and I have very similar tanks when it comes to corals and fish but our methods and equipment couldn't possibly be any different...but you would never know it from looking at the tanks, they both look great.
