Stringy Poop!!

[Jounior]

I just purchased an exquisite Foxface from the LFS. He is in QT Paramaters are good. The water came from my display tank. He hasnt touched any food and his poop is stringy. Any ideas on;

A)How to get him to start eating, I have tryed Brine Shirmp with Garlic suppliment

B) Why the stringy poop?

I am treating him with Coppersafe, Marecen (sp) and marecen 2 for secondary infections. He did show a spot on his flank that i thought was ich.

I appriciate your help.

Thanks,.

JR

 

[Jounior]

Any input would help thanks

 

[Jerry W]

White stringy feces can be indicative of an internal bacterial infection. The use of garlic might help in this case. I'm not sure copper treatments are indicated. Even if the fish has crypt, as long as it's in quarantine, you have other treatmnt options available, and..one spot does not constitute an outbeak, IMO. Offer the fish greens (these fish are largely herbivorous) including nori and spirulina. Continue using a small amount of garlic in food portions. The antibiotics can't hurt at this point. Watch and observe for a few days but if the fish still won't eat, there may be more going on.

 

[Jounior]

this will be day number 4 of treatment in QT. Still hasnt touched anything. Think if i soaked the nori in some garlic oil that might help?

 

[leebca]

There are three (3) basic possibilities when it comes to an intestinal problem. This reference outlines the three nicely:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/internalinfections.html

Garlic is not a remedy. It has been suspected of helping in one case of internal parasites. The fish was fed solid chunks of it. Garlic juice does nothing in this case. I can elaborate on this if you want.

Sometimes an internally infected fish (bacteria or worms or parasites) will stop eating or slow its intake. But usually there are other signs, like loss of weight, ravenous eating but no weight gain, and/or strange excrement. Consider the possibilities by reading that article.

Whatever the internal problem, the fish needs the best water quality and the best diet AND supplements added to its diet.

For diet and supplement help, check this out:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...threadid=785228

If the fish isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t eating then the only way to get medication inside of it is to put the fish in a quarantine tank and treat the water with chemicals that will kill the internal condition. The drug Praziquantel (a.k.a. droncit) will treat intestinal worms, Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish will treat an internal bacterial infection and metronizazole will treat dinoflagellate infections.

To be conservative: First check your source water for contaminants. Use only the best source water and make up a new batch of salt water. Now check that water for quality/contaminants. If it all passes, then do an 80% water change and see if the fish seems to 'perk up' (e.g., starts eating or eats more or swims around more in the open). If no response, treat the fish for worms, but also include a metronizazole treatment. If the fish definitely perks up (starts eating or eats more), then it maybe a combo of water conditions and bacteria. In this case, I'd treat the fish for an internal bacterial infection. Make sure this water change is performed with properly aged, properly mixed, and 'matched' saltwater

If the fish was fat and eating properly and being fed a proper diet (see above reference), with vitamin and fat supplements, it can live without eating for several weeks, providing all other environmental and water quality conditions are as they should be and the fish isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t diseased. Praziquantel is best administered orally so see if you can get the fish eating.

Good luck!

 

[Jounior]

Let me first say that this fish is quite large compared to all the fish in my tank. Atleast 4.5 inches. He IS currently in a QT tank with nothing in it but water, a maxi jet, and a hob filter with nothing in it but a sponge filter that has been seeded from my display for biofiltration (2 weeks atleast). The water is of good quality, it came from my display tank from witch i do a 15-20 gallon water change on a bi-weekly if not weekly baisis.

As prevously stated I am currently treating the QT tank with Coppersafe, Marycen and marycen 2. The spot on the side of the Foxface i think you where correct in saying that it wasnt ich. There are no other spots on him and I have asked Dr. Mac and he nailed the discription of it without seein a picture. I agree with him and think it is lymphysitis. It looks like a pimple on his side with a white cottony head.

I dont know how he ate while on the reef. I can only assume that he was wild caught just from his sheer size and lack of interest in prepared foods. If he was captive raised then I would think that he would eat nori and other prepared foods readliy. Also i dont think that he would be that large. I will try changing some of the water out tomorrow and see what happens. it is a 29 gallon qt tank. I will start by changing 10 gallons to see what happens. I AM currently using Seachem's Garlic Guard as a supplement to entice him into eating. Not just garlic oil. Dr. Mac suggests I try a variety of foods. Should i go and buy a "variety pack" of frozen cubes and give it a whirl? His upper body looks healthy but his stomach area looks thin like he hasnt eaten in a while.

I am just looking for additional input. Lee and Jerry thanks for your help and if you have anything further please post more of what you think i can do to help. I have loved this type of fish since I layed eyes on it and I really want to help him through this. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Thanks again,

JR

 

[leebca]

The Maracyn treatment should last 5 days. At the end of that consider stopping the copper treatment. A fish in a copper solution is often not likely to eat.

After all the meds are out of the QT water, treat with Praziquantel.

Rabbitfish are 'nibblers' in the wild. Provide (not Nori) algae every day, even if the fish ignores it. Try green, red, and purple algae as a variety. Rubberband some to a fake heavy decoration or attach to a clip and let it sink to the bottom of the QT.

Try gut-loaded brine shrimp (with fats or spirulina) and mysis shrimp. Make sure you buy frozen AND be sure it is as fresh as your store can sell you. You can try live foods, such as live brine and live blood worms just to get it started.

Good luck!

 

[Jounior]

I was always told that the marycen treatment should always be repeated. The suggestion about the copper is valid. I will stop that after the fifth day. I will do a 10 gallon water change tonight then redose the marycen and perhaps another 5 gallon the next day to get the majority of the copper out and continue this way for a few days. What is praziquantel? Where can I source this?

As far as the food issue. I have been trying to feed spirulina enriched brine to him everyday. Also where can i source some of the red, purple and green algea? i have alot of cheato in my sump but I know that they are not likely to eat that, I have actually tryed that already.

He seems to be swimming a little more this morning. Hopefully he can hold out till tonight when I do the water change. I will let it the water mix all day to come to the right temp ect.

So the plan is to go to LFS tonight and get the following.
-variety pack of frozen foods
-See if they will give me some Clerupa(sp?)
-water change


anything that I might have missed?

Thank you so much for your help Lee. I would appriciate your continued advice.

thanks again,

JR

 

[leebca]

You're welcome JR.

Most tangs and Rabbitfishes will not eat the Chaeto macro algae. It is a good algae for exporting, but not for feeding the herbivore fishes.

In this thread I mention the macro algae good for herbivore fishes:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785945

The macro algae that comes in packages are made by a couple of reputable companies. You can look for Ocean Nutrition or Two Little Fishes or H2O Life products. If your LFS doesn't have them, check around. Some pet store chains (like PetCo) sometimes have this, but they may not have the variety. Call around first. Of course, there are sources on the Internet, but you need speed on this. Or, get the green (and any other color available) and order the other colors.

When one food attempt fails, it is usually best to try something else. Offering the same food it refuses day after day usually doesn't get the fish eating. Keep changing things and get that algae at the bottom of the QT.

Praziquantel is found in some anti-intestinal parasite meds. Droncit is one. But again, you can get it easily enough on the Internet. Since you have time on this, you could try that and have it shipped quickly. A fast source for this is:
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/
I believe that site (if you look hard) has suggestions for a water treatment. Oral treatment is best, but. . .

Watch water quality carefully. Check pH often, which can radically change in a small water volume situation. Make sure water you change has the same pH, temp, salinity as the water it is replacing. Make no sudden pH changes.

Check around to see if there is any supply of live foods you can use.

Ask if you have ?

 

[Jounior]

Lee,

I am acutally not using the sushi type of nori. It does hold up better underwater but I am using the ocen nutrition green marine. and he is hasnt touched that yet. GOOD NEWS though. I saw him eat several pellets of spectrum a few min ago. I think we may come out of this thing on top yet. I will go to LFS tonight and purchase any of the other colors that they might have of the algea and see if they will give me some of their clurepa. I think that I will continue to use the Marycen for another five days or so. However I will get the copper out of there as I dont belive he has ich but does probably have lymphysitis. Dr. Mac said that i can scrape this cottony stuff off of him somehow. You have any experiance with this Lee? I really dont want to get stabbed by this guy though.

I will keep you posted as to if the waterchange perks him up anymore after i get home from work.

Thanks again,

 

[leebca]

I respect Dr. Mac very much when it comes to inverts. Scraping the fish for Lymph is not prudent, unnecessary and not worth traumatizing the fish to do, in my opinion.

Everything (and more) you wanted to know about Lymph:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=768459

Good news about the algae. I had read 'nori' and assumed the human food. Keep offering it. The more accurate and the more info you provide, the more help the people here can be.

 

[Jounior]

so Hmm. His spot doesnt look just like that is it sort of swollen like a pimple or something. It does have a white head on it like a pimple. SWF get zits??? HA! Do you think it could be something else? It looks far to big to be ich.

Thanks again. I will keep you posted with any changes. and thank you so much for your help lee.

 

[Jounior]

well he is eating the green marine stuff a little bit. Still eating the spectrum pellets pretty good. I have done 2, 5 gallon water changes over the past couple of days. He still seems lathargic. Any ideas on what this could be?? What to do. I am not convinced that this is lymph!

thanks

 

[leebca]

I'm afraid we'd just be guessing at this point in time. If you have eliminated Lymph from the possibilities, then we need to see a photo of what it is you're looking at.

Do you see anything that might be 'living' inside that thing? or is it an attached organism (copepod?) If it's a fluke or parasite living on the fish, it may be something we can do, but a photo at this point is necessary.

Sorry we can't be of more help. Make sure you get food into the fish with those supplements mentioned in the previously referenced post.

 

[Jounior]

he is eating for sure. Nibbled at some Green Marine, and is eating spectrum whenever it is available to him. Feeding him atleast 3 times daily. He cleans the bottom of anything that sinks. He will not touch brine however. I will see what I can do about posting a photo up as he only likes to show me his good side.

Thanks again,

 

[Jounior]

Photos

Photos

As requested.

 

[leebca]

Sorry. Picture is a bit on the fuzzy side and too far away for a good look at that.

I see no indication that it is an open wound. If you concur with this, and since you've already treated the fish with antibiotics for both gram negative and gram positive bacteria, then there are a couple of courses to consider:

1) If there is a chance it is a surface parasite of some sort, then the procedure would be to treat with a medicine containing organophosphate (e.g., trichlorfon or Dylox).

2) If there is a possibility of a worm or fluke of some sort, then the procedure would be to perform a series of formalin dips according to this reference:
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/formaldehyde_friend_or_foe.html

Keep encouraging the fish to eat.

If both the above fail to affect the spot, then you might consider surgery. There is always a small chance it is tumorous.

 

[Jounior]

i will try to get a closer picture when I get home. Sorry for the crappy pic.

 

[Jounior]

Foxface LIVES

Foxface LIVES

Yeah so it has been a while. I kept the foxface in the QT tank for total of 7days with copper, marycen and marycen 2. He started looking worse even after water changes ect. so I decided that I didnt have anything to do but put him in the display tank. The side wound in retrospect might have been a battel wound or where some parisite entered him. Had me worried for a while as it looked like a huge pimple of some sort. Swollen around the outside of a white hole. As the swelling went down the wound seemd to grow but after 2 days in the Display it started to fill back in with scales. After a total of 5 days in the display the whole is completly filled in with scales and only looks like a small indent in his side. He is much more active and eating spectrum and nipping at alge that i put on a clip.

I think he will be just fine. Just wanted to give some conclusion to this situation. Incase anyone was wondering what happend.

Any insite as to what it might have been???

Thanks,

JR