Talk to me about stray voltage in a tank

Heuristic

New member
So lately I've been having hell with hair algae and different kinds of algae. I figured something died in my tank and it is causing an issue. No biggie, threw in some phosphate remover, upped the water change intervals, etc.

Then I've noticed that all of my corals have been absolutely ****ed lately, which I thought was weird. Even when phosphates are a little too high corals tend to still be ok....

Then today I started to really notice something. It stung whenever my finger was right at surface level. That pain I normally would just write it off as salt getting in to some stupid nick I have in my finger, but this was different. I called my wife over and said, put your finger right here at surface level. Do you feel anything? Tell me I'm crazy. After a minute she started looking at me like *** is wrong with you? then she jumped and felt it.

That's when I knew the feeling was a stray voltage. I was able to isolate it to a single power head and removed it out of my tank...

Now, that has me thinking a lot of these things are related and I was wondering what all the side effects to stray voltage in the tank could cause? Could it be leaching phosphates that are causing the algae that I'm slowly removing? I'm assuming it is behind my corals being so angry? Any one else know what this crap could have caused?
 
That's pretty wild, I def know that little sting on the cuticles of my nail of a bad power-head or heater. I worked at a couple pet stores and had my hand in a ground level tank and touched the ground with my other hand and got absolutely nailed. It might not affected cichlid tanks but I'm sure it couldn't be good in a reef tank. I wouldn't doubt for a second that it may potentially be the cause of your unhappy corals recently and other tank woes.
How do you think it could be contributing to the leaching of phosphates?
 
That's pretty wild, I def know that little sting on the cuticles of my nail of a bad power-head or heater. I worked at a couple pet stores and had my hand in a ground level tank and touched the ground with my other hand and got absolutely nailed. It might not affected cichlid tanks but I'm sure it couldn't be good in a reef tank. I wouldn't doubt for a second that it may potentially be the cause of your unhappy corals recently and other tank woes.
How do you think it could be contributing to the leaching of phosphates?
If there's an actual short happening I could see it being from an exposed component which could be metals

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
If you have that much going through where you get shocked I am sure it isn't great for your corals. I was convinced by one of my LFS that "stray" voltage could be the cause of a lot of issues in our tanks such as bringing on disease with our fish, so I bought a grounding probe to get a head of "problems". As soon as I put it in my clowns starting jerking in a funny manner and were acting weird for a day. So I took it out. Then when I was reading The Reef Aquarium by Delbeek and Sprung volume 3, they said that grounding probes are bad. In that they focus the "stray" voltage, thereby creating a focus point of voltage that could more seriously impact the creatures in our tanks, if that makes sense (or thats the way I remember it and I could have interpreted it slightly wrong). A. My fish reacted negatively to having a grounding probe in my tank, and more importantly B. Marine biologists recommend against it based on science. That's all I needed to discard my $10 purchase.
 
I could only feel it right when I was breaking water tension and it wasn't bad. It seriously felt like just salt in a small cut like around your cuticles. Then I tested just the middle of a finger where I had no cuts or anything and felt it. It didn't hurt, you could just feel that there was certainly something there.


Another thing that kind of made me question it was after I made this discovery I noticed my wrasse has been doing the stress circles on the side wall. He hasn't done it since I unplugged it an hour ago.
 
All line powered submerged equipment should be attached to a GFCI device..
That could either be purchasing a power strip/adapter with GFCI protection or by swapping out the outlet for a GFCI one or swapping out the branch circuit breaker for one with GFCI protection..

But they are an absolute must..
And for the love of god please stop sticking your hands into a tank of water when you feel a shock.. Not sure why you think anything about that is a good idea..

But immediately go buy something like this..
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tower-M...H_zUMOGzoJORd3vpsIiaLnsRhMkNBXxhoC1m8QAvD_BwE
or this
https://www.amazon.com/GFCI-Outlet-Adapters-Single-Adapter/dp/B001OE3JHC
or anything that is sold as a "GFCI" outlet adapter,etc..
 
Plenty of arguments from previous post on this subject. Lets see if I can stay in the middle?
Do not use a grounding probe without; using a GFCI receptacle or breaker, checking your service ground to make sure there is one and it is good, and your receptacle is grounded (I have seen grounded receptacles placed on two wire systems without being marked). You do not need a grounding probe for a GFCI to work, but that means you are the grounding means and it will not protect you from getting shocked, only from the current killing you. A GFCI trips at 4 to 6 milli-amps, a breaker or hospital grade GFCI trips at 5ma. At 1 to 2 you will feel a tingle, 3 to 4 the shock starts to hurt. Also voltage does not shock you, current does. You can have 48 volts in a tanks caused by multiple motors, submersed in water and open lamps. Without current it will not shock, current in the water is caused by faulty equipment. When I use a submersible pump I use a grounding probe, as an electrician I do not like getting shocked. An LFS told a story of an angel that would not eat when there was stray/induced voltage in their tank. Stray voltage affects fish differently, some could care less but some do not like it. If you are going to use a GFCI to protect you and your equipment, use a separate GFCI on your main pump with a separate GFCI for the rest of your equipment, so if a heater goes bad, it does not shutdown the life of your tank. Also they make GFCI receptacles with audible alarms to alert you when it trips. When in doubt call and electrical contractor, and never let anyone tell you "It is only 120v". I know of two people, one fixing a leaky water line, the other in his attic with his clothes wet from sweat died from 120v. Water and electricity can be a deadly combination. Replace all bad equipment, and check cords on submersible equipment frequently.
 
Like stated above small amounts of electricity can kill a human. Electricity takes the path of least resistance and if that happens to be through your heart, you're a goner
 
Also voltage does not shock you, current does. You can have 48 volts in a tanks caused by multiple motors, submersed in water and open lamps. Without current it will not shock, current in the water is caused by faulty equipment.

very close alton... everything else you wrote is fine but some minor issues here..
When there is voltage there is current.. You cannot have one without the other..
And its "voltage doesn't kill you.. current does"..
The voltage level is what allows that electricity to penetrate skin or air,etc... Higher voltage allows electricity to jump across the air or allow you to feel the shock through your skin.. So you will absolutely still feel a shock with 100V @1mA.. You just aren't in serious death potential until that current level rises..
I've been "shocked" many times by 1000VAC (2mA current limit)..
I also routinely touch bus bars with 48VDC @ 500 Amps flowing through them quite often..
The fact that its that low voltage is what prevents me from getting killed by the 500 Amps or more.. and with the 1000VAC I most certainly feel that shock but the 2mA limit keeps me from getting killed..

Thats also why many new DC powerheads/pumps do not need to be on GFCI circuits.. They most certainly have current levels above the "tingle" limits but due to the low voltage there just isn't a shock hazard there.. That 24VDC isn't enough for it to break through skin and actually shock you..
 
All line powered submerged equipment should be attached to a GFCI device..
That could either be purchasing a power strip/adapter with GFCI protection or by swapping out the outlet for a GFCI one or swapping out the branch circuit breaker for one with GFCI protection..

But they are an absolute must..
And for the love of god please stop sticking your hands into a tank of water when you feel a shock.. Not sure why you think anything about that is a good idea..

But immediately go buy something like this..
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tower-M...H_zUMOGzoJORd3vpsIiaLnsRhMkNBXxhoC1m8QAvD_BwE
or this
https://www.amazon.com/GFCI-Outlet-Adapters-Single-Adapter/dp/B001OE3JHC
or anything that is sold as a "GFCI" outlet adapter,etc..
It isn't a shock like that. It is barely detectable. Like I said I wasn't even sure that it was stray voltage I thought it was cuts on my fingers at first.

Also I have one of gfci power strip.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Electricity takes the path of least resistance

and since I'm being "nit picky" that statement is wrong too (even though being very commonly accepted as true)..
electricity takes all conductive paths.. not just the one of least resistance..
"More" of it goes down the path of least resistance though as dictated by ohms law,etc..... ;)
 
It isn't a shock like that. It is barely detectable. Like I said I wasn't even sure that it was stray voltage I thought it was cuts on my fingers at first.

Also I have one of gfci power strip.

Good.. Thats what I was waiting for you to say after I made my "MUST HAVE GFCI" comments.. You have done all you need to do to stay "safe" with line powered equipment in water..
That "potential" just isn't enough at this point to seriously hurt you or to cause the GFCI set point to be reached..

Its also possible to feel "static" essentially now with it being colder/drier air,etc... The tank can actually be like your body in that it can "store" some energy in it and release it when exposed to another body of less potential..
(walking on carpet then touching someone,etc..)
 
Good.. Thats what I was waiting for you to say after I made my "MUST HAVE GFCI" comments.. You have done all you need to do to stay "safe" with line powered equipment in water..
That "potential" just isn't enough at this point to seriously hurt you or to cause the GFCI set point to be reached..

Its also possible to feel "static" essentially now with it being colder/drier air,etc... The tank can actually be like your body in that it can "store" some energy in it and release it when exposed to another body of less potential..
(walking on carpet then touching someone,etc..)
I bite my nails so it often stings a little when I first put my finger tips in the water. This just seemed slightly different and I do mean slightly. It took a good 5 minutes of messing around with the water surface for me to even think it stray voltage.

That said, now that it's fixed, what could this realistically caused tank wise? Leaking phosphates from an exposed short? Would the current mess with corals? I know it can mess with fish some.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
That said, now that it's fixed, what could this realistically caused tank wise? Leaking phosphates from an exposed short? Would the current mess with corals? I know it can mess with fish some.

Well at the very least.... exposed wire = potential for copper in the water..
copper = bad..

While it might not turn up anything a polyfilter is always good to have around in times like that.. It will turn colors in the presence of copper..

I HIGHLY doubt your algae issue has anything to do with it..
High phosphate levels are typically attributed to overfeeding over time and some rock (pukani,etc...) is known for leaching phosphate over time..

What is your current phosphate level? How about nitrates?
Has your alk been stable?
I will almost never recommend phosphate remover (GFO,etc...) as it can do more harm then good
 
I probably should throw some poly filter on top of my carbon bag in my filter sock just to be sure.

My phos and nitrates are at 0. I did a pretty big water change a week ago, but the algae had already started at that point, but could be an alk swing I guess. I tested my brute trash can full of RODI water and it's reading 0 tds
 
How old is the tank?
Algae is very common in new tanks even with low nitrate/phosphate readings..
Also new people tend to freak out about small algae issues and make them bigger than they need to be..
Frankly I'm concerned with a tank doesn't have some algae..

And don't forget that nitrates and phosphates are "nutrients" and they are needed by all living marine creatures..
Think of them like fertilizer for your grass/lawn (And what is fertilizer....N-P-K.. coincidence..nope ;) ).... too little and your grass doesn't grow well.. Too much and you can burn the grass out.. Just right and amazing green weed free lawn..
 
It's a year old and I haven't been having algae issues. It really just started to come out recently and I wasn't quite sure what was causing it so I was wondering if something was being leached in to the water and this was just a potential idea.

I don't really freak out about algae as I know it can come and go at times, but was thinking maybe this is all sort of related
 
I tend to view most 'cases' of stray voltage to be a big 'ol red herring. Can malfunctioning equipment leak voltage/current into the tank, yes; but I always think most cases are not that. Saltwater will always show some voltage between the water and ground. Further, pumps can generate an induced voltage in the water due to the magnetic fields, yet be operating normally (i.e. no shorts). I get a small tingle from my frag tank occasionally, but not always; and there are no motors of any kind in the tank. As long as you can eliminate clear electrical damage to submerged equipment, I'd be looking elsewhere for the source of your tank problems.
 
And the voltage itself may not be causing any of the issues, but maybe the short is? I'm assuming that if it shorted that it could have exposed some wires which is why I was feeling it.

On another forum they pointed out that those powerheads can leach copper and iron in to the tank if they're exposed. The Copper would cause all sorts of problems and the iron can definitely cause an algae issue.
 
very close alton... everything else you wrote is fine but some minor issues here..
When there is voltage there is current.. You cannot have one without the other..
And its "voltage doesn't kill you.. current does"..
The voltage level is what allows that electricity to penetrate skin or air,etc... Higher voltage allows electricity to jump across the air or allow you to feel the shock through your skin.. So you will absolutely still feel a shock with 100V @1mA.. You just aren't in serious death potential until that current level rises..
I've been "shocked" many times by 1000VAC (2mA current limit)..
I also routinely touch bus bars with 48VDC @ 500 Amps flowing through them quite often..
The fact that its that low voltage is what prevents me from getting killed by the 500 Amps or more.. and with the 1000VAC I most certainly feel that shock but the 2mA limit keeps me from getting killed..

Thats also why many new DC powerheads/pumps do not need to be on GFCI circuits.. They most certainly have current levels above the "tingle" limits but due to the low voltage there just isn't a shock hazard there.. That 24VDC isn't enough for it to break through skin and actually shock you..

Do GFCI circuits last forever or do they need to be replaced periodically?
 
Back
Top