Tank design advise please

[dsimonsonsr]

Have a few years of experience with smaller salt water tanks. I want to sink a tank into my wall. Have a big empty space under the stairs. See my sweet photoshoping lol

https://imgur.com/cFHayEv

My plan is to have the 90 gallon display tank that will flow into a 20 gallon sump (with filter media, skimmer, heater) and then get pumped up into a 75 gallon tank which I figure I can use as a refugium with plants, live rock, sand, etc. Maybe put smaller fish in until they are big enough for the display tank. Grow corals. Who knows. Then the 75 gallon tank will flow into another 20 gallon sump with more filter media and then get pumped back into the 90 gallon display. I figure this will give me close to 200 gallons of water. My thought process being I can add more fish to the display and with more water a more stable environment. Here is a diagram.

https://imgur.com/C2T65Cw

Is this beneficial or just unnecessary? Thanks for any thoughts, feedback or advise.

 

[Lsufan]

I would skip the second sump & use one bigger sump. So have somthing like a 40 breeder as the sump & the 75 as the fuge. U can eighther drain the dt to the fuge which then drains to the sump or u could have both the dt & fuge drain to the sump & both fed from the return pump.

Personally, I would prefer to have my return pump feed both the dt & the fuge & have both tanks drain to the sump. Doing it this way u can control the fuge independently from the dt. So u can control the flow separately & u can take the fuge offline for cleaning or whatever & not have to turn off the entire system. The dt & sump can run normal while the fuge is offline. The same thing for the dt. U can turn off the dt without having to turn off the fuge & sump.

If u can somehow place the fuge above the dt then U can drain the fuge directly to the dt. U could eighther feed both from the return pump so u can control the flow independently from each other or u could have the return pump feed the fuge & let it feed the dt, then from the dt to the sump. If u want to turn eighther one off u would have to turn off the entire system, but I would rather that & have the fuge drain directly to the dt. They don’t have many setup this way but that is because it usually isn’t practical to have the fuge higher then the dt.

If u drain the dt to the fuge then drain to the sump then u won’t be able to control the flow thru the fuge independently & if u have to take the fuge offline for a bit u would have to turn off the entire system. Eighther setup works & it’s really personal preference & what will work best for your situation, but regardless I would think about only running one sump. I really don’t see the point in a second sump. It just adds more plumbing & something else to clean.

 

[davocean]

One thing to keep in mind is back siphon, a 20g is not going to handle much, and tied to 2 tanks is probably going to be an issue.

I would much rather have a large sump, and just baffle for a fuge if you want to have one

 

[dsimonsonsr]

Yes, using one sump makes much more sense. I will have to calculate the size to be to account for back flow. Back to the drawing board. Thank you

 

[Indymann99]

I hate to be a downer on your plans but I would reconsider that location...

You will need to add a header to span the opening above the tank and support the staircase (green). This will make cleaning the top of the tank (red) from the rear difficult from the rear.

Honestly I would put the tank on a stand in the same space and put the sump under the stairs.

my 0.02.

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[laverda]

I hate to be a downer on your plans but I would reconsider that location...

You will need to add a header to span the opening above the tank and support the staircase (green). This will make cleaning the top of the tank (red) from the rear difficult from the rear.

Honestly I would put the tank on a stand in the same space and put the sump under the stairs.

my 0.02.

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/152505950@N07/40609640080/in/dateposted-public/" title="inwall stairs issue"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1760/40609640080_452194a0bd.jpg" width="500" height="354" alt="inwall stairs issue"></a>******** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I would not think you will need anything more then a 2x4 header as the stairs usually have stringers bearing the load. However you need to look at how they are built carefully to make sure. Anything is possible these days.
You may find the stringer will be in the way and you will have to move the tank lower and or to the right. Don’t forget to allow room to access the tank on the left side.

 

[sde1500]

Yes, using one sump makes much more sense. I will have to calculate the size to be to account for back flow. Back to the drawing board. Thank you

Very good call, relying on a pump to move water from the sump to another sump spells disaster the first time you turn the power off, and water back siphons from your tank to the small sump but doesn't move to the bigger sump.

 

[cellingson]

I think I would just turn the 75 gallon into one sump with baffles. That is a nice size sump for a 90g tank. I think you'll have trouble regulating the flow you want through each tank and then needing checks in each tank to prevent leaks.
I think if you are determined to make it work I would use a spill over technique where one tank spills into the other when filled past a certain level and the flow is controlled by one pump. Just be sure the bottom tank can hold all the spill over of the other tanks.

 

[uclamatthew]

I like the idea and agree with others about not needing the two smaller sumps, just use the 75 gal. As far as the location you should be fine with a 2x4 header, but check your measurements and maybe use some painters (blue) tape to outline where it will be on the wall. It seems to me like it might be a bit low to enjoyably view.

 

[dsimonsonsr]

I would not think you will need anything more then a 2x4 header as the stairs usually have stringers bearing the load. However you need to look at how they are built carefully to make sure. Anything is possible these days.
You may find the stringer will be in the way and you will have to move the tank lower and or to the right. Don't forget to allow room to access the tank on the left side.

I was able to cut an access in the laundry room which is located behind the stairs. In the area I wanted to put the tank there is enough room for me to stand plus some. I can easily access the left and right side of the tank.

I have a contractor buddy who was kind enough to stop by and show what to and not to do in regards to studs, headers, etc.

There is enough room under the lower stairwell section that I will be able to baffle my 75 gallon tank and use that as a sump/fuge. I worked on it all weekend and made a bunch of progress.

Here is the actual tank in place for a dryfit. Still have more electrical and finish work to do. I'll post more pics tomorrow for anyone interested.

 

[dsimonsonsr]

I was able to get access to under the stairs from the backside where the laundry room is. A contractor buddy of mine was able to stop by and give me instructions on what to do. I added headers to the DT opening and another to where by access door is. There is plenty of room to stand up and access the tank of the left and right. Here is a picture of the DT in the hole checking the fit.

https://imgur.com/GcF79UB

I've decided to use my 75g as my sump/fuge. It will tuck nicely under the stairs to the left of the DT and still have enough room for maintenance. Now I just need to learn to build a sump. lol

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Hell of a placement for maintenance ---

 

[laverda]

Looking good.

 

[BrettDS]

I have a couple of concerns about your location

First, I had a small fish room installed in a closet under my stairs in my old house. The ceiling was at an angle because of the stairs and one of the tanks was under the low part of the ceiling with the ceiling nearly touching the top of the side of the tank. From your pictures, it looks like your tank may be in a similar situation with the low part of the ceiling nearly coming down to the top of the tank.

This made lighting the side of the tank with the low ceiling very difficult as most lights need to be 10 or 12" above the surface of the water and it also made accessing that side of the tank very difficult. Additionally, tank access may be even more difficult if you don't plan to install a panel above the tank on the front.

My current tank is installed in a wall and is visible from both sides, but I only have access to the tank from one side. Placing corals and doing aquascaping on the far side of the tank is definitely possible, but it's also not easy. Ideally it's a two person job where one person looks in and tells you exactly where to place the coral as you reach in from the top, otherwise it's a lot of running back and forth and trying to adjust things before the glue sets. The other day I was adding a coral on the far side alone and I accidentally placed it on the wrong rock entirely because the view from the top of the tank is completely different than the view from the front of the tank. Finally keep in mind that without an access panel whenever you need to feed the fish you'll need to do it from the back in your fish room.

I'm not saying that you need an access panel on the front side of the tank. I like the clean look without it and I really don't regret not putting one in, but definitely go into this with your eyes open and realize that if you skip the access panel that you will be creating more work for yourself. The low sloping ceiling on one side will also compound the access problem.

My last concern is that by installing it under the stairs like that there might be a lot of noise and vibration as people go up and down the stairs that will scare and stress out the fish. Especially if you have kids or pets that would run up and down the steps. I don't really have any experience here. I didn't have any fish in the fish room I had installed under the stairs... it was just a sump and a refugium, but it might be something to consider.

 

[dsimonsonsr]

BrettDS, thanks for the input but I am past that point.

Here is some of my progress pictures. Full disclosure I have no idea what I am doing lol

Laundry room access https://i.imgur.com/QuLbP0T.jpg
75 gallon I will use as a fuge. I put a sump up top. Using a 250gph pump to fill it and then just gravity feeds back into the 75g. Still need to add some filter media and my skimmer. https://i.imgur.com/QYpbjqz.jpg
Under the tank. Have my chiller and a canister filter being used to move water through the chiller https://i.imgur.com/5H5qecF.jpg
This is the 90 gallon display tank. Still have framing to do https://i.imgur.com/YHeSoOj.jpg