This is painful to watch! Can I save my clams?

[ReefDream]

Two days ago I had my relatively new (less than two weeks old) squamosa clam start to cough a lot (blow out stuff). It looked like it was trying to expel some sort of mucus. I did everything I could think of including testing all the parameters, cleaning its shell, repositioning him, etc. Nothing worked. Today it is dead.

If that wasn't bad enough I see my 6 month old beautiful crocea now starting to cough a lot too. What the heck am I supposed to do? Do I have to watch every clam die to this mysterious illness? I just threw out the sqamosa and it's going to be one bad weekend if by Sunday the crocea needs to be ditched too.

I feed DTS every other day (full amount recommended) and lately every day. I feed the fish every other day to every day. There is plenty of light and the tank parameters are perfect, but something did change at the onset of this problem. I got a reactor, so the calcium went from 400 to about 450 and the alkalinity from 8 to about 11. The pH might have went down, but since I never tested it before I don't know. With the reactor it runs 8.0 before lights on to 8.2 before lights off according to my Salifert test.

This is all very frustrating. In fact this is the most frustrating and heartbreaking thing that I've been through with the tank. I love clams--they are like jewels to me--but if this is how they are--fine one day and all dead the next for no reason--then I'll have to pass next time around. They are too expensive for 6 month loves followed by heartbreak.

PS - I got my clams at a popular LFS.

 

[toptank]

ReefDream I am SO sorry for your lose. From what you have described it could be that they were getting too much Dt's and clogging their gills. I use less than suggested on bottle. If you are feeding your tank fairly heavy and with the DT's also that could be a lot to filter. JMO

Raising ca and alk up to fast may have been a factor as well.

There is so many things that would have caused this.

One thing I do is keep logs on all my tanks and when I add things or change product I log in so if something start to happen I can go back and see what may have caused the problem.

I would do a good water change and throw in some carbon for a few days.

Again I am sorry about your clams.

Barry

 

[ReefDream]

Well, I haven't lost the two croceas I have left. The smaller crocea I got at the same time as the squamosa that died this morning. It is about 2". The other is closer to 4" and I got it six months ago. The larger one seems to be doing okay, though is was coughing late last night. The smaller one is gaping today. I don't think I am feeding too much DTS. I know my large Seabay clowns have a habit of kicking up sand now and then, so maybe a load of it clogged the Squamosa and made it sick. The other two clams are far away from where the clowns hang out, so they are clear of any sand storms.

I really don't know. All I can do, I guess is wait. I hope I don't lose all of them. I am pretty paranoid right now even though they don't look too bad, except the small one is gaping a little. Of course everything else in the tank looks fine.

 

[toptank]

I would say to isolate them in a Q-tank but don't know if that would help in this case. Something to think about though.

Am going to post on my web site that I would highly recommend isolating any clam in a Q-tank before introduction to main tank. Like I have said before, we do it with fish, why not do it with clams. Just incase something is coming into the country from overseas that we don't know about it would be better to find out in a Q-tank rather than possible loss other in the main tank. From my experence with keeping clams, if I lose a clam in my holding tanks, 90 % of the time it will die within 3 days. One reason why I hold my clams 5-7 days before shipping.

Barry

 

[ReefDream]

Toptank,

I do have a coral/rose anemone propagation tank that would serve as a good holding tank. For now, though, I don't think the remaining two are looking bad. I sucked out tons of calerupa with my vacuum thingy because I have noticed that the clams seem to like the cloudy stuff in the water after I do that. Now the other two both look fine. Neither is coughing or gaping anymore. Both are fairly well extended too (not perfect but close).

I wonder if the presence of the sick clam might have been stressing them out somehow. Maybe there are stressful chemicals released by the dying clam? For now my fingers are still crossed, though, that everything will be okay. I won't feel confident unless I make it to Monday. I'll keep everyone up to date! Both of these crocea are exceptionally bright and vibrant, so I might post some pictures next week if everything works out.

 

[SLOreefer]

im sorry to tell you but it may be too late for all of your clams. there seems to be a disease that cannot be cured going around california. i know many different people that have gotten this and lost every clam. a friend of mine just lost 16 clams and another guy i know lost 11. this didsease can live dormant in your tank for up to 6 months without a host. you can try and quarantine your others and hope they havent caught this illness yet and hope that works. im very sorry to hear about your clams.

 

[ReefDream]

SLOreefer, could you describe this in a little more detail? How does a clam with this disease die? What are the signs of it? HOw fast did your friend lose his clams? Has anyone tracked the disease down to a particular importer?

 

[smiller]

ReefDream I am SO sorry for your lose. From what you have described it could be that they were getting too much Dt's and clogging their gills. I use less than suggested on bottle. If you are feeding your tank fairly heavy and with the DT's also that could be a lot to filter. JMOBarry

Barry,

How often and what amount of phyto do you feed?

 

[toptank]

Smiller,

In my reef tank I feed 3 times a week and a little less than recommended by distributor. My reef tank has been set up for 2 years plus and I do feed my fish twice a day and of course the clams filter that as well as the waste from the fish for food.

In my clams holding tanks I feed everyday but lightly because I only have a few fish in those tanks, small yellow tang for algae control and six-line for snails. The reason I feed everyday is that those tanks house 40-60 clams each and that many clams can filter the water fairly fast.

Hope this helps.

Barry

 

[ReefDream]

This morning I lost the smaller clam. The only one left is the larger, older crocea and it doesn't look good. Well, you know the saying, drastic times call for drastic measures. Plus, I really have nothing to lose, so I decided to try something.

I set up a holding an antibotic bucket for the remaining clam. I am trying some antibiotics that are prescription and used for coral infections. I'm going to keep it in there for two days.

 

[toptank]

ReefDream,

Went back and read your post. You got that clam at a LFS. I would back tract and see what the conditions of their tank are in and what additives are they adding such as food suppliments and if there is anything else housed with the clams or are they in seperate holding tanks. How long had they had that/those clams? Ask what source it came from, whole seller, country and what ever you can find out. He must have brought in a bacteria infection or some other disease.

Please keep us posted.

Barry

 

[ReefDream]

I called my LFS. The owner is a personal friend and very honest; let's call him John. I never expected to hear this, but what is happening to my clams is happening to John's and almost everyone else who has got a clams through some large distributor in LA in the last two weeks. John said he is losing clams fast, and fighting with antibiotics without any sucess thusfar. He is not selling any of his clams at this point due to this problem. I want to keep everything anonymous, but I can tell you that if you buy a clam right now from any west-coast area, you are taking a huge risk.

Just like SLOreefer said there is some bacterial infection that is very fatal to clams (and acts very quickly) that is coming out of the main (perhaps only) west coast clam distributor located in LA. This happened two years ago according to John, and is the reason almost no one carries clams in the bay area any more.

Back at that time, David Knop was investigating the problem yet could not find a cure. Also the bacteria was sent to Florida and analyzed. It was isolated to a Vibrio strain bacteria. For now, I am going to use an antibiotic in the tetracyclines in a holding tank which are effective against many bacteria in the Vibrio strain. It can't hurt.

John has again sent one of his sick clams in to a professional marine reef disease pathologist. The results should be in later this week. If we can narrow the bacteria down a little more, there might be hope for an effective treatment.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I recently lost a large tear drop maxima, I suspected it might have died of a bacterial infection, so I in order to save my other clams, I put of UV on the tank. All the other clams look ok so far. It's pretty tough losing a clam.

 

[ReefDream]

Imagine how the LFS owner must feel losing 4 or 5 a day and without a single line of defense against it? Even David Knop didn't know what to do (yet).

 

[toptank]

I don't think it has anything to do with the west coast. It seems like what I have been hearing and reading it appears to be in your area where this is happening the most. Yes I have heard of a few dying in other parts of the US but not as much.

Basically all clams from from 5 Islands. Tonga, Marshall Islands, Fiji, Solomon Island and Pohnpei. They are shipped to 7 to 9 location where there is Federal Fish & Game employees on site to inspect overseas livestock coming into the US.

In the past 5 days I have contacted 3 other clam distributors and several LFS in my area and no one has experienced any major loses than the normal loses occurred in transporting them.

Would like to talk with you more on this subject, my number is 619 593-0565.


Barry

 

[JT]

Basically all clams from from 5 Islands. Tonga, Marshall Islands, Fiji, Solomon Island and Pohnpei.

Umm, I think you forgot about:

Palau
Western Samoa
Vietnam

You can occassionally also get some from Cook Islands and Rarotonga. Indonesia is going to be coming online soon as well.

 

[toptank]

JT, thanks you are correct. According to the Federal Fish & Game in Portland,OR 85% are from those 5 places I mentioned. So yes that 15% could be the ones that are infecting others.

Would you mind sharing with us regarding any problem that you have incurred if any?

Oh, I have heard that Indonesia is on hold. Also paper work is being worked on in Guam for releasing to the US.

Barry

 

[fishymissy]

Reading this has scared the cr*p out of me!
I want so bad to get another clam, but I sure don't want the one I have dying!
Aside from setting up a QT (which is an excellent idea), are there any signs before you buy the clam to look out for? (Other than the normal stuff)

 

[slojmn]

I've lost 9 clams thus far and it all started after adding three clams from a lfs. The signs to look for...well all clams I bought looked perfectly healthy and actually seemed fine the first 5-7 days. Then they went fast. The largest, 5" t. max went first followed by the other 2 smaller babies, one a squamosa the other a t. max. It did not stop there. This "disease" systematically took out most of my clams one at a time for the next 2 weeks. Then all was well for about 3-4 weeks and I had 2 clams out of 10 left. 4 days ago I lost my absolute favorite. Now my last t. max is gaping severly this afternoon. It looks a bit better tonight but.... I read posts from different folks who have had this occur earlier this year and they lived in different parts of the U.S. but it does seem to be especially bad up here in Northern California from what I am gathering from another post on the board. There were some earlier discussions about this on the board and at reefs.org, I believe, when all my clams were dying. Scary s**t. I just love clams and it is so painful to watch them go from being so healthy to just keeling over very quickly. Don't know what else to tell you all .

 

[jim norris]

It is a sad depressing day when I loose a clam. Bacteria is a killer I like the UV idea --- I will probably now blow the dust off all my UVs and fire them back up again. IF POSSIBLE CAN EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT TYPE OF LIGHTING YOU ARE USING! AND WHAT IS YOUR PH. I have imported 1,000s of clams and the biggest problem I ever had was when I tried kalkwasser and the PH wented crazy killing about 15 clams. I once imported over 200 clams and they were delayed and stay in their bags(boxes) for over 80 hours and still over 90% lived. Clams are really tuff! As far as the clams coming out of LA this is the BIGGEST port so most clams go to the importers, and then go into their tanks, and then to the retailers and then to their tanks, and finally to the customer and into their tanks. How many PH, LIGHT, ALK, TEMP, changes can a clam take? Most books state clams do not like changes. IMO this is the starting point of the health good/bad of a clam. If you buy clams my best advise is set your specs (tank water) to what the clams are in or came from. For more information you can call me also 512-310-1213 there is a problem out there but I think it is avoidable. Also many years ago I live in the BAY area. In the water system the bacteria levels sky rocketed. The water department added ammonia and other chemicals to kill the bacteria for us humans but the local aqua stores were mostly wipe out of the livestock! Jim