RokleM
Premium Member
One thing I've always complained about in this hobby is pathetically small amount of comparison reviews out there. We have thousands of products at our fingertips! Do some searches on equipment and you will find a SLEW of die hard fans ONLY willing to recommend one thing. So you ask, how many other brands have you seen or did you research? How many have you seen in person running? How many have you ever owned and used? Come to find out, many of those "die-hard" fans have never even touched another product! They love what they have and recommend it everywhere bashing the competition with their amazing lack of diversity. So... this is why I like to throw these types of things up. It's not uber technical. I'm not going to rip the units apart and give you internal schematics. I'm not going to call you an idiot if you purchase the one I don't recommend. What I will do is give you a little side-by-side action and a few personal opinions on them. I suggest everyone doing this when they have the chance, no matter how informal it is.
I've been a huge fan of Tunze as soon as I dropped my first bills on the 6000's for my 180 (later upgraded to 6100's). Recently I've seen less and less postings of issues with the Vortech's (and there were a slew of them at the beginning). I'm in the process of rethinking part of my 180 and am debating opening the rockwork (ironically as Norm just did apparently). I also wanted to add some more flow. I decided to give Serdar a shout and ask him if he could acquire a Vortec and battery backup for me. Ironically he said they would be in almost immediately (EcoTech just posted about PhishyBusiness carrying the units).
Let me post some pictures before I get into the thoughts. Basically, the units are near identical in size, the Vortech being SLIGHTLY less length it appears.
Two things to note. 1) I am running the foam cover on the Vortechs. If you look at Phishy's site, you'll see how large the holes are on the unit. There have been a number of complaints with diced fish, and honestly I wanted to foam as an additional layer of protection. They sell the foam as a side package. 2) The Tunze 6100 in the first two pictures is the stock form. If you look in the tank, I'm actually running a 6200 front (wider exit) on a 6100 for a wider flow.
The setup in my tank is pretty simple. The Vortech's are on the left and right pane (closer to the front glass), shooting across the front of the tank. The 6100 Tunze on the right shoots to the back-middle of the tank. The 6100 Tunze on the left shoots to the front middle of the tank. The Tunze's are controlled via my AC3 and are on a pretty aggressive pulse mode. In other words, they go from 30% to 100% in relatively rapid succession every couple of seconds.
Manufacture claims:
Vortech (Specs on Phishy's pages)
•Flow: 500-3000 gallons per hour
•Power Consumption: 9-28 watts
•Maximum Motor Temperature: 50-60 degrees Celsius
•Aquarium Wall Thickness Range: 3/16â€Â-3/4â€Â
•Appropriate Tank Size Range: 20-500+ gallons
•Dimensions: Wet Side- 3†diameter by 2.25†long, Dry Side- 3†diameter by 2.25†long
•Clearance Needed Behind Aquarium: 3â€Â
Tunze 6100 (again from Phishy's pages)
•For aquariums of 400 - 2000 l (105.6 - 528.3 US gal.)
•Output: 4000 - 12000 l/h (1,056.6 - 3,170 US gal./h)
•Pump wattage: 45 W
•Voltage / Frequency: 230V (115V) / 50-60 Hz
•Cable length: 5 m; (196.8 in.)
•Dimensions: ø 98 x 118 mm; (diam. 3.9 x 4.6 in.)
•Outlet diam.: ø 50 / 47 mm; (diam. 1.9 / 1.8 in.)
You can see output wise, you're looking almost identical.
Onto some of the points I'd like to hit with the units:
Backup Battery
-Tunze (Roger) has mentioned something on the way for their units. It however is more of an interface, and you have to assemble some of the parts yourself depending on your requirements. This is both good and bad depending on your outlook. I will be interested in seeing it when it hits the states.
-Votech has the 30 hour battery currently available. It's a decent sized unit, and during my testing seemed to last 6-8 hours with two pumps easy before I plugged it in. They claim to be able to run 30 hours on a single pump with a fresh battery. One weekend I'll likely give this a try. There is no delay what so ever in unplugging the main Vortech power supply from the wall to the point it goes on battery. There is a noticeable drop in speed, but that is as planned to grant maximum battery life. A large plus is the extremely long power cord on the trickle charger.
-RokleM style - I use APC Smart UPS's to backup a number of my items. I can tell you there is no way I've ever come close to the 30 hour mark powering my main pumps (PanWorld). I have pushed 12 hours easy though with a single Tunze plugged in. I will still rely on them to move water via my main pumps, and generator as a backup. The Vortec backup is outstanding for those longer term outages or when I'm not around.
FLOW
The important section!
OMG teh vortech has teh widest flows evers loLolOlo toonzee are is teh suck!!! (That's what you'll read if you follow the fanboys, plus I had to wake you back up). Here's the real facts. Flow wise, we know the numbers are pretty much identical. We know it's a fact that the Vortech has a wider opening. Without hooking these up to some sort of device, it's really hard to tell the exacts. With my hand in front of them, they appear to put out about the same amount of water. What I can say is, Vortech absolutely has a wider stream. Is it just absolutely amazingly wide that there is so much water pushed in every direction you hardly feel any flow but a ton of water is moving (as many people claim)? No. Let's face it. We're pushing through a 2-2.5" hole up to 3000 GPH. You WILL get a heavy directional flow not matter what you do. IF you figure out how to change this, let me know, we'll go into business, and I'll quit my day job. Is the Tunze specifically more directional? Yes. Can I see the movement of a Tunze 6 foot down the tank from the opposite side? Yes. Would you be incredibly hard pressed to get this to occur with a Vortech? Yes.
Flexibility could also be key here. Aside from picking a different spot on the glass, you're basically set with the Vortech's. The Tunze's on the other hand swing widely to the left and right, and with creative magnet placement can go up and down at angles as well.
What does all that crap mean? I think it comes down to application. If you need to get water over a distance and/or have a somewhat open area, Tunze is going to get that water moving with a lot more force. However, if you have a more compact less open aquarium, and you need a slightly broader flow on your SPS 12" or so out from your glass, the Vortech may be your key. Examples... In my frag tank, I don't honestly think a Vortec would work well. I need to get flow through the 36" and it would be blasting out the top of the 12" tall tank. However, I would love to have a less expensive Vortech smack in the upper middle of my 58 and let it pulse towards the front of my tank. My 180, I think it's about perfect with both on the sides. I've got the Tunze force to move it long, the Vortech's to create a little more chaos up close.
Also note, this is relatively general speaking. You can get all kinds of fancy with the controllers, after market tools, pump modification, wave generation, you name it. All of those things need to weigh in on the decision as well.
Maintenance
There isn't a ton to talk about in this section as of yet, because I've only had to work on my Tunze's. What I can say is, my routine occurs about every 2-4 months. My Tunze alarm goes off on one pump (pump intelligently shuts off in order to not cause damage). At this point I know I have a calcium buildup inside and it needs a quick cleaning. I can guarantee within 24-48 hours the second will as well. I drop the unit into a bucket of vinegar for about 15-20 minutes, rinse in a clean bucket, right back into the tank. Piece of cake. I know for a fact Vortec sells an extra "wet side" (the side in the tank) that should be replaced occasionally (more on that later). This also can double as a good cleaning mechanism. Need to clean the wet side, swap it out, soak it in vinegar, scrub, done.
Price
Let's be honest, both units take our breath away price wise. However, there are few other efficient options to move this much water. 3000GPH at less than 50w? Pretty impressive in my book. A Tunze and a single controller is going to set you back about the same amount as the wireless Vortech package. Tunze (Roger) has slipped a couple of times that there is a new controller in the works. No word on the details. However, currently Votech absolutely dominates Tunze at that price point on features. Wireless synchronization between the units, different programing modes, you name it. I haven't experimented with them all, but Vortech being the newer unit has a significant jump on technology here. So out of the box day one, ignoring how you specifically may use the pumps (remember, one pump may work better than another for your setup), Votech seems to have the lead. However, then you look at the forums and long term costs. Vortech currently recommends replacing a number of pieces in the wet side at least every 18-24 months. I've read some replacing them as soon as 6 months. It's not a horrible price, but it is ongoing cost. On the other hand, I haven't spent a dime on my Tunze 6100's near two years of service, and quite frankly don't expect to. If I give them a good vinegar bath, they are pretty much as good as new. No odd wear, no parts to replace, everything fits together as though it was fresh out of the box.
So summary, long term forced repair/replacement wise (or lack there of), Tunze is the leader. Features out of the box primarily due to the controller, Vortech has a sound lead (especially when you're talking two Tunze's vs. two Vortech's).
Sound/Visually
Visually, again I think it's how you look at it (huh, imagine that). The Tunze absolutely takes up space in the tank, but that's it. The cable goes back over the edge and is out of sight. The Votech however has the dry side hanging off the side of the tank and cables exposed. If I could stick the Vortech on the back of a tank or in a sealed dry overflow, it would look outstanding. However, you can also build overflows specifically for Tunze's hiding 100% of the pump (AO has done a few that way). So what's it boil down to? Again, how you look at it. I see two main ways of thinking on this. One person is going to say get all the junk out of my aquarium, it's for my fish/corals. The other is going to say, my aquarium is visually gaudy with crap hanging off the size, put it inside out of the way. Two different ways of thinking, same result. Personally, my spacing of the Tunze's in my 180 don't put them in the way, so it doesn't bug me. If I had a smaller tank, they very might be in the way making me wish I had half the pump on the outside. As well, remember you have to deal with the Tunze magnet and mount as well inside, which increases the area.
Tunze, noise, what? I can say that in the quietest of rooms, with nothing running but a Tunze, there is absolutely no way I will ever hear it. There is absolutely no noise from a Tunze that I've ever been able to hear. The Vortech's on the other hand are a different matter. The motor is not in the tank. The water is not there to dampen any noise or stop any vibration. There isn't any water cooling to keep that pump's temperature down. Both of my Vortech's make a noise when past about 50%. Are they louder than my skimmer? No way. Could it be mildly irritating in a perfectly silent room with no fans running, a flawlessly silent sump, etc? It's certainly possible. Vortech does not claim they are perfectly silent, but does mention that with that oh so perfect setup, they will rotate beautifully with minimal vibration or noise especially when set to a constant speed. I can say in 45-60 minutes of fiddling with two, I haven't found it. Moral of the story, I can start talking decibels with you, but go hear a Vortech in person and see if it will meet your needs. If it's quiet enough for your setup/environment, perfect. Tunze's are truly perfect making no noise, and in my case the Vortech perfectly meets my requirements also.
Quality
Again, hard topic to address, so I won't hit it hard and blab on. My Tunze's have been rock solid (nano's a few bumps here and there). Those issues I have had were dealt with quickly (more on that in the next section). Vortech had a very rocky start, but appears to have come a long way since then. I'll leave it at that and suggest maybe doing a little research in the two forums here for more insight.
Service
Let's be honest, somewhat tied to Quality. If quality was perfect, we all had flawless maintenance schedules, etc, then nothing would ever need service... Yeah right...
If you own a Tunze, live in the U.S., and have needed help with a Tunze... There is absolutely no doubt in your mind that Roger Vitko is THE MAN when it comes to after market support. I've had replacement nano parts on my doorstep before he sent me a PM saying he shipped them (and that's not because he's slow to respond via PM's either). The one time I had an issue with my 6100 and no spare, he had it repaired and back in my hands with a quickness. We're talking over a weekend fast. His support on these forums and via other means probably does more for Tunze's sales in the U.S. than the home office will ever realize. I am not at all unhappy with my Tunze purchases, but I would say that if Roger moved on somewhere else, I personally would seriously take that into account when purchasing Tunze hardware. He's also very willing to answer any questions on the forums from technical issues to placement and purchases. He has a very action section of the board. If you don't catch my drift or understand my impression of Roger's (Tunze USA) support, then you're out of luck
Vortech again I have not had issues as of yet. What I can say is, their official support channel is voice or email. They might answer a technical question here or there, but as soon as specific issues arise, the standard "email this address" is immediately pasted. Good, bad, who knows. What I do know is that the general users browsing the forum don't necessarily get a lot of feedback on issues because they're handled out of RC. If you look into a lot of those threads, many have a "I shipped everything to you" followed by a "any update" or "do you have tracking information". Hard to tell without getting a poll of people that have had to get service, but it doesn't appear they're on the ball as much as Tunze/Roger. Where Tunze/Roger leverages the forums more for knowledge transfer and handling of issues, Vortech prefers to handle it personally one on one away from the public eye. Good? Bad? Who knows, probably just a different business/support model.
Overall my Tunze experience, outstanding and it's the reason I continue to purchase and support the company. Overall experience of my rookie Vortech units, seems rock solid out of the box and packed full of features. Let's see how they do down the road.
Bah, I'm done rambling for now... And looking back, I rambled a lot... Take it, leave it, I don't care, just my 2 cents Fire way question if you have them.
I've been a huge fan of Tunze as soon as I dropped my first bills on the 6000's for my 180 (later upgraded to 6100's). Recently I've seen less and less postings of issues with the Vortech's (and there were a slew of them at the beginning). I'm in the process of rethinking part of my 180 and am debating opening the rockwork (ironically as Norm just did apparently). I also wanted to add some more flow. I decided to give Serdar a shout and ask him if he could acquire a Vortec and battery backup for me. Ironically he said they would be in almost immediately (EcoTech just posted about PhishyBusiness carrying the units).
Let me post some pictures before I get into the thoughts. Basically, the units are near identical in size, the Vortech being SLIGHTLY less length it appears.
Two things to note. 1) I am running the foam cover on the Vortechs. If you look at Phishy's site, you'll see how large the holes are on the unit. There have been a number of complaints with diced fish, and honestly I wanted to foam as an additional layer of protection. They sell the foam as a side package. 2) The Tunze 6100 in the first two pictures is the stock form. If you look in the tank, I'm actually running a 6200 front (wider exit) on a 6100 for a wider flow.
The setup in my tank is pretty simple. The Vortech's are on the left and right pane (closer to the front glass), shooting across the front of the tank. The 6100 Tunze on the right shoots to the back-middle of the tank. The 6100 Tunze on the left shoots to the front middle of the tank. The Tunze's are controlled via my AC3 and are on a pretty aggressive pulse mode. In other words, they go from 30% to 100% in relatively rapid succession every couple of seconds.
Manufacture claims:
Vortech (Specs on Phishy's pages)
•Flow: 500-3000 gallons per hour
•Power Consumption: 9-28 watts
•Maximum Motor Temperature: 50-60 degrees Celsius
•Aquarium Wall Thickness Range: 3/16â€Â-3/4â€Â
•Appropriate Tank Size Range: 20-500+ gallons
•Dimensions: Wet Side- 3†diameter by 2.25†long, Dry Side- 3†diameter by 2.25†long
•Clearance Needed Behind Aquarium: 3â€Â
Tunze 6100 (again from Phishy's pages)
•For aquariums of 400 - 2000 l (105.6 - 528.3 US gal.)
•Output: 4000 - 12000 l/h (1,056.6 - 3,170 US gal./h)
•Pump wattage: 45 W
•Voltage / Frequency: 230V (115V) / 50-60 Hz
•Cable length: 5 m; (196.8 in.)
•Dimensions: ø 98 x 118 mm; (diam. 3.9 x 4.6 in.)
•Outlet diam.: ø 50 / 47 mm; (diam. 1.9 / 1.8 in.)
You can see output wise, you're looking almost identical.
Onto some of the points I'd like to hit with the units:
Backup Battery
-Tunze (Roger) has mentioned something on the way for their units. It however is more of an interface, and you have to assemble some of the parts yourself depending on your requirements. This is both good and bad depending on your outlook. I will be interested in seeing it when it hits the states.
-Votech has the 30 hour battery currently available. It's a decent sized unit, and during my testing seemed to last 6-8 hours with two pumps easy before I plugged it in. They claim to be able to run 30 hours on a single pump with a fresh battery. One weekend I'll likely give this a try. There is no delay what so ever in unplugging the main Vortech power supply from the wall to the point it goes on battery. There is a noticeable drop in speed, but that is as planned to grant maximum battery life. A large plus is the extremely long power cord on the trickle charger.
-RokleM style - I use APC Smart UPS's to backup a number of my items. I can tell you there is no way I've ever come close to the 30 hour mark powering my main pumps (PanWorld). I have pushed 12 hours easy though with a single Tunze plugged in. I will still rely on them to move water via my main pumps, and generator as a backup. The Vortec backup is outstanding for those longer term outages or when I'm not around.
FLOW
The important section!
OMG teh vortech has teh widest flows evers loLolOlo toonzee are is teh suck!!! (That's what you'll read if you follow the fanboys, plus I had to wake you back up). Here's the real facts. Flow wise, we know the numbers are pretty much identical. We know it's a fact that the Vortech has a wider opening. Without hooking these up to some sort of device, it's really hard to tell the exacts. With my hand in front of them, they appear to put out about the same amount of water. What I can say is, Vortech absolutely has a wider stream. Is it just absolutely amazingly wide that there is so much water pushed in every direction you hardly feel any flow but a ton of water is moving (as many people claim)? No. Let's face it. We're pushing through a 2-2.5" hole up to 3000 GPH. You WILL get a heavy directional flow not matter what you do. IF you figure out how to change this, let me know, we'll go into business, and I'll quit my day job. Is the Tunze specifically more directional? Yes. Can I see the movement of a Tunze 6 foot down the tank from the opposite side? Yes. Would you be incredibly hard pressed to get this to occur with a Vortech? Yes.
Flexibility could also be key here. Aside from picking a different spot on the glass, you're basically set with the Vortech's. The Tunze's on the other hand swing widely to the left and right, and with creative magnet placement can go up and down at angles as well.
What does all that crap mean? I think it comes down to application. If you need to get water over a distance and/or have a somewhat open area, Tunze is going to get that water moving with a lot more force. However, if you have a more compact less open aquarium, and you need a slightly broader flow on your SPS 12" or so out from your glass, the Vortech may be your key. Examples... In my frag tank, I don't honestly think a Vortec would work well. I need to get flow through the 36" and it would be blasting out the top of the 12" tall tank. However, I would love to have a less expensive Vortech smack in the upper middle of my 58 and let it pulse towards the front of my tank. My 180, I think it's about perfect with both on the sides. I've got the Tunze force to move it long, the Vortech's to create a little more chaos up close.
Also note, this is relatively general speaking. You can get all kinds of fancy with the controllers, after market tools, pump modification, wave generation, you name it. All of those things need to weigh in on the decision as well.
Maintenance
There isn't a ton to talk about in this section as of yet, because I've only had to work on my Tunze's. What I can say is, my routine occurs about every 2-4 months. My Tunze alarm goes off on one pump (pump intelligently shuts off in order to not cause damage). At this point I know I have a calcium buildup inside and it needs a quick cleaning. I can guarantee within 24-48 hours the second will as well. I drop the unit into a bucket of vinegar for about 15-20 minutes, rinse in a clean bucket, right back into the tank. Piece of cake. I know for a fact Vortec sells an extra "wet side" (the side in the tank) that should be replaced occasionally (more on that later). This also can double as a good cleaning mechanism. Need to clean the wet side, swap it out, soak it in vinegar, scrub, done.
Price
Let's be honest, both units take our breath away price wise. However, there are few other efficient options to move this much water. 3000GPH at less than 50w? Pretty impressive in my book. A Tunze and a single controller is going to set you back about the same amount as the wireless Vortech package. Tunze (Roger) has slipped a couple of times that there is a new controller in the works. No word on the details. However, currently Votech absolutely dominates Tunze at that price point on features. Wireless synchronization between the units, different programing modes, you name it. I haven't experimented with them all, but Vortech being the newer unit has a significant jump on technology here. So out of the box day one, ignoring how you specifically may use the pumps (remember, one pump may work better than another for your setup), Votech seems to have the lead. However, then you look at the forums and long term costs. Vortech currently recommends replacing a number of pieces in the wet side at least every 18-24 months. I've read some replacing them as soon as 6 months. It's not a horrible price, but it is ongoing cost. On the other hand, I haven't spent a dime on my Tunze 6100's near two years of service, and quite frankly don't expect to. If I give them a good vinegar bath, they are pretty much as good as new. No odd wear, no parts to replace, everything fits together as though it was fresh out of the box.
So summary, long term forced repair/replacement wise (or lack there of), Tunze is the leader. Features out of the box primarily due to the controller, Vortech has a sound lead (especially when you're talking two Tunze's vs. two Vortech's).
Sound/Visually
Visually, again I think it's how you look at it (huh, imagine that). The Tunze absolutely takes up space in the tank, but that's it. The cable goes back over the edge and is out of sight. The Votech however has the dry side hanging off the side of the tank and cables exposed. If I could stick the Vortech on the back of a tank or in a sealed dry overflow, it would look outstanding. However, you can also build overflows specifically for Tunze's hiding 100% of the pump (AO has done a few that way). So what's it boil down to? Again, how you look at it. I see two main ways of thinking on this. One person is going to say get all the junk out of my aquarium, it's for my fish/corals. The other is going to say, my aquarium is visually gaudy with crap hanging off the size, put it inside out of the way. Two different ways of thinking, same result. Personally, my spacing of the Tunze's in my 180 don't put them in the way, so it doesn't bug me. If I had a smaller tank, they very might be in the way making me wish I had half the pump on the outside. As well, remember you have to deal with the Tunze magnet and mount as well inside, which increases the area.
Tunze, noise, what? I can say that in the quietest of rooms, with nothing running but a Tunze, there is absolutely no way I will ever hear it. There is absolutely no noise from a Tunze that I've ever been able to hear. The Vortech's on the other hand are a different matter. The motor is not in the tank. The water is not there to dampen any noise or stop any vibration. There isn't any water cooling to keep that pump's temperature down. Both of my Vortech's make a noise when past about 50%. Are they louder than my skimmer? No way. Could it be mildly irritating in a perfectly silent room with no fans running, a flawlessly silent sump, etc? It's certainly possible. Vortech does not claim they are perfectly silent, but does mention that with that oh so perfect setup, they will rotate beautifully with minimal vibration or noise especially when set to a constant speed. I can say in 45-60 minutes of fiddling with two, I haven't found it. Moral of the story, I can start talking decibels with you, but go hear a Vortech in person and see if it will meet your needs. If it's quiet enough for your setup/environment, perfect. Tunze's are truly perfect making no noise, and in my case the Vortech perfectly meets my requirements also.
Quality
Again, hard topic to address, so I won't hit it hard and blab on. My Tunze's have been rock solid (nano's a few bumps here and there). Those issues I have had were dealt with quickly (more on that in the next section). Vortech had a very rocky start, but appears to have come a long way since then. I'll leave it at that and suggest maybe doing a little research in the two forums here for more insight.
Service
Let's be honest, somewhat tied to Quality. If quality was perfect, we all had flawless maintenance schedules, etc, then nothing would ever need service... Yeah right...
If you own a Tunze, live in the U.S., and have needed help with a Tunze... There is absolutely no doubt in your mind that Roger Vitko is THE MAN when it comes to after market support. I've had replacement nano parts on my doorstep before he sent me a PM saying he shipped them (and that's not because he's slow to respond via PM's either). The one time I had an issue with my 6100 and no spare, he had it repaired and back in my hands with a quickness. We're talking over a weekend fast. His support on these forums and via other means probably does more for Tunze's sales in the U.S. than the home office will ever realize. I am not at all unhappy with my Tunze purchases, but I would say that if Roger moved on somewhere else, I personally would seriously take that into account when purchasing Tunze hardware. He's also very willing to answer any questions on the forums from technical issues to placement and purchases. He has a very action section of the board. If you don't catch my drift or understand my impression of Roger's (Tunze USA) support, then you're out of luck
Vortech again I have not had issues as of yet. What I can say is, their official support channel is voice or email. They might answer a technical question here or there, but as soon as specific issues arise, the standard "email this address" is immediately pasted. Good, bad, who knows. What I do know is that the general users browsing the forum don't necessarily get a lot of feedback on issues because they're handled out of RC. If you look into a lot of those threads, many have a "I shipped everything to you" followed by a "any update" or "do you have tracking information". Hard to tell without getting a poll of people that have had to get service, but it doesn't appear they're on the ball as much as Tunze/Roger. Where Tunze/Roger leverages the forums more for knowledge transfer and handling of issues, Vortech prefers to handle it personally one on one away from the public eye. Good? Bad? Who knows, probably just a different business/support model.
Overall my Tunze experience, outstanding and it's the reason I continue to purchase and support the company. Overall experience of my rookie Vortech units, seems rock solid out of the box and packed full of features. Let's see how they do down the road.
Bah, I'm done rambling for now... And looking back, I rambled a lot... Take it, leave it, I don't care, just my 2 cents
Fire way question if you have them.
