What material bonds to Epoxy AND Silicone?

[PhantomAce]

As the question asks...
What material/sheet good will accept both an epoxy bond AND a Silicone bond?

Here's my idea, and the reason for the question:
I am currently working up drawings for a plywood tank build. The idea is to have a built-in Skimmer/Refuge/Sump w/return pump in the back. (Think of an Advanced Aqua Tanks "Uniquarium" on steroids, with real bio and mechanical filtration, instead of bio-balls and filter pads.)
What I would like to do is pre-apply epoxy to full sheets of plywood for water proofing, then mill all the parts out of them. However, I'm thinking that maybe I can "float" a full sheet of another substrate onto the plywood, similar to pre-laminating panels to build a cabinet, but using epoxy instead of contact cement. The cabinet joints will use the Epoxy (instead of wood glue) as well as screws/staples, but will be cleared of epoxy after assembly at the interior corner surfaces.

For example:
Will Epoxy bond to the back of laminated plastic, and will Silicone bond to the finished front surface?
How about ABS?
PVC?
Etc...

The intended design allows 2 "viewing windows" on each side (with a dividing wall between them), and 2 "main windows" at the front (may have a brace divider, may not, depends on final structural needs). The glass will not be in a channel, it will be pressed directly against the chosen surface material, fitting all the way to each corner left/right/top/bottom. So, the Silicone will ONLY be touching glass and the chosen surface material, and NOT the plywood or Epoxy in any area.
(Make sense?)

What material(s) will bond to both?

Thanks for any input / assistance!

Mike.


(Also, for those that will ask... The current design of the plywood box itself is 72"L x 27"D x 27"H. DT area is approximately 15"D at ends, and 18"D at center. There are 2 overflows, one at each end, that feed the Skimmer and the Refugium, the return area is in the middle between the 2, isolated by triple baffles on each end. The only things not in the tank itself are my AquaLogic 1/4hp chiller itself and an ATO reservoir, which will be housed in the stand below the tank. The tank itself will have 3/4" hardwood applied externally, framing out the "windows" for decoration and adding additional support.)

 

[PhantomAce]

No ideas?
Hasn't anybody successfully sealed glass with silicone to anything but glass?
If so, what was that material?
I have to believe that most things can be bonded with epoxy, but even if not, what will bond that also bonds with glass?

Would love some input here, as I would really like to try this.

 

[Mr sea water]

Hi I am part way through building a ply tank 11.6x2x3, i think if you bond with epoxy I use West, I think you mite find the glass may brake as there is no flex, silicone is used as a gasket and yes not the best bond but the water pressure pushing agenst the glass pushing out wards will give a good seal. On the outside I am going to put acrylic on the out side so I will have to have a play with epoxy and silicone and see what happens. Steve

 

[karimwassef]

I used goop for my plywood sump windows. Adheres and seals.

 

[PhantomAce]

Having continued to search... I have found several mentions of a product called "E6100".
Would this bond/seal most substrates and glass?

 

[firemountain]

Just a suggestion...go to your local West Marine / boating store. Since they deal with a salt water environment, they will be able to point you to a product that would fit your application.

 

[karimwassef]

That's actually what I did and they sold me an expensive white silicone made for marine windows. It's great, but I had an irregular surface, so it eventually failed (let's call it user error).

In the end, I used goop and it's great.

 

[creas]

I think Mr. Seawater is correct, the silicone simply acts as a gasket. Urethane caulk adheres to the most variety of surfaces but nothing bonds to glass as well as silicone. The weight of the water is what typically holds the glass in place in a plywood tank. If you want a better bond between the silicone and the epoxy you should rough up the cured epoxy with some sandpaper, give it more surface area to grip. Epoxy would actually bond very well to the glass however as Mr. Seawater pointed, epoxy has very little flexibility...if any at all.
edit: be careful NOT to use an anti-microbial silicone

 

[PhantomAce]

The epoxy-to-silicon bond is not the issue or question.
I am trying to use an intermediate sheet good that needs to bond to BOTH the epoxy and the silicon.

What material (sheet) will bond to epoxy AND silicon?

The sheet material will be epoxied to the plywood, and the glass will be siliconed to that sheet material (no silicon to epoxy whatsoever).

Make sense?

 

[karimwassef]

I still think you should use goop between the epoxy and glass and simplify your design.

If you need an intermediate, why not use a glass frame? That can be epoxied to the epoxy and then siliconed to the glass window. Since the frame is much smaller, it should be less susceptible to cracking due to expansion.

 

[Mr sea water]

I think Mr. Seawater is correct, the silicone simply acts as a gasket. Urethane caulk adheres to the most variety of surfaces but nothing bonds to glass as well as silicone. The weight of the water is what typically holds the glass in place in a plywood tank. If you want a better bond between the silicone and the epoxy you should rough up the cured epoxy with some sandpaper, give it more surface area to grip. Epoxy would actually bond very well to the glass however as Mr. Seawater pointed, epoxy has very little flexibility...if any at all.
edit: be careful NOT to use an anti-microbial silicone

I have not put the glass in yet, and I have built the tank very strong. I have used 1inch ply and so far over 1200 A4 stainless screws. I have started matting it up with west epoxy, all joints have been west epoxyded. I will silicone the glass in as a gasket. The tank is 11.6x2x3 and has over flow boxes each end. Steve.

 

[Reefer54]

dow corning 795