100G SPS Reef - Where do I go from here?

[Patrick Cox]

Just a Clarification on my question here based on the first reply - "Where do I go from here with my current tank?" I'm not asking about upgrading. Thanks....


In early 2016, I started my current 100G primarily SPS tank. Over the past two years I have had some successes and some failures, and now I am trying to take the next step with my tank. I am getting decent growth and pretty good polyp extension but my colors are mixed. And I have had in mind that I needed more light but then yesterday it was suggested to me that some of my corals looked nutrient deficient. I was a bit surprised by that because I have been battling algae for quite awhile, although I am now getting it under better control with a larger CUC.

Here are current specs of my tank, along with pictures...

EQUIPMENT/GENERAL:
-100G - 48x24x20
-22G sump filled to 11G
-Life reef Skimmer
-2 Vortech MP40 running at about 60% Reefcrest anti sync
-8x54 ATI Fixture with ATI bulbs (currently about 7" above water level. 6 bulbs run 7.5 hours - 3 B+, 2C+, 1 P+ and then 2 Actinic bulbs ramp morning and night and I have also started to run them some during the day.)

- I also have a Reefbrite blue LED strip that I run some at night just for viewing pleasure. However I have been considering replacing one or two of the Actinics with a stronger bulb like B+ and using the LED more for dawn/dusk so I can run 8 bulbs during the day.

- Most SPS corals are mounted about 10" below the surface of the water. The PAR at this level is about 250. But I was thinking that the corals would grow up into higher PAR levels. I have also been thinking about lowering the light fixture closer to the waterline.

-APEX Controller

-Dose ESV 2 part on 1ml pumps, dosing every hour. Currently dosing 24ml per day

-Tank was started with about 50 pounds of Tampa Bay LR.
-I also started out with dry sand.
-I recently decided to remove my sand bed and try BB because I was having a hard time controlling algae and cyano so I thought removing my sandbed would help me to remove detritus and increase flow.
-I then also add another 15 pounds or so of TBSW LR. (That is the rock in the center of the tank without any algae growth on it.

MEASUREMENTS:
1.025
78 degrees
PH - 7.9 - 8.3
Alk - 7.2 (I let this get a little low so I am gradually trying to raise to 7.5-8)
Ca - 400
Mg - 1280
Phosphate - 0.03 (Hanna Checker)
Nitrate - 0.0 (Red Sea Pro Kit)

Fish:
1 Foxface
1 Kole Tang
2 Clownfish
1 possum wrasse
1 yellow assessor

I feed 1/2 cube of spirulina brine ship every other day and I feed a small strip of Nori every other day. I used to feed more but I was getting too much algae so I cut back. But I also did not have much of a CUC at the time.

I now have a decent size CUC. Probably 15-20 Astrea snails, 15 or so very small cerith snails and a couple of small urchins from Tampa Bay SW. I do see the snails and urchins making an impact on the algae. I can see strips of clean rock where there was algae.

WHERE I NEED HELP:
So at this point I guess my question is - what should I be doing at this point to improve colors, growth and health of my corals? Do I need more light? Do I need more nutrients? Maybe more fish? Someone suggested dosing Nitrate?...etc.


PICTURES:
Here are some recent pictures and I appreciate your assistance! I plan to keep this thread going for awhile rather than starting new threads with different questions so I hope some of you will tag along!


FTS: Most of my corals came from Battle Corals except the 1st coral pic.

I recently picked up this coral from joshky as he is making a change to his tank. I know it can color up better than this!

2nd picture in this post shows this same coral in Josh's tank...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25009771&postcount=594

 

[MHG]

Well I would say don't focus on the next tank focus on this one. you are well on your way. The corals look good and your growth will be exponentially higher as more branches are formed. then you will be in a place where there is no room to even put your hand in the tank. Then its time to upgrade.

As far as light goes most local clubs have them to rent to there members. That is a good way of seeing if you need more light.

Is your alk and calc consumption on the rise? if so your doing it right. I found mi corals grew and looked better as I kept my fish fat and happy. But there is of course algae issues that can crop up if you exceed the rate that your grazers and CUC can deal with it.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Well I would say don't focus on the next tank focus on this one. you are well on your way. The corals look good and your growth will be exponentially higher as more branches are formed. then you will be in a place where there is no room to even put your hand in the tank. Then its time to upgrade.

As far as light goes most local clubs have them to rent to there members. That is a good way of seeing if you need more light.

Is your alk and calc consumption on the rise? if so your doing it right. I found mi corals grew and looked better as I kept my fish fat and happy. But there is of course algae issues that can crop up if you exceed the rate that your grazers and CUC can deal with it.

Thanks for your reply. I actually was not talking about an upgrade to a new tank but rather what do I need to do next with my current tank?

And in terms of additional light, I am really asking - should I lower my light closer to the surface to increase PAR? Should I run longer? Should I replace 1 or 2 actinic bulbs with B+ to increase PAR? ....etc. Do I need more light to improve colors? Or is light OK and I just need more time?

And are my nutrients too low? Phosphate seems ok but Nitrate is 0.0.

And yes, I did just have to increase my dosing amount. I am testing Alk every other day right now because 2 days ago I noticed a drop in Alk from 7.5 to 7.1.

You mention feeding fish. Do you think I have enough fish (i.e.-fish waste) for my tank? I have thought about adding another fish or two.

Thanks again!

 

[Fish4udog]

Thanks for your reply. I actually was not talking about an upgrade to a new tank but rather what do I need to do next with my current tank?

And in terms of additional light, I am really asking - should I lower my light closer to the surface to increase PAR? Should I run longer? Should I replace 1 or 2 actinic bulbs with B+ to increase PAR? ....etc. Do I need more light to improve colors? Or is light OK and I just need more time?

And are my nutrients too low? Phosphate seems ok but Nitrate is 0.0.

And yes, I did just have to increase my dosing amount. I am testing Alk every other day right now because 2 days ago I noticed a drop in Alk from 7.5 to 7.1.

You mention feeding fish. Do you think I have enough fish (i.e.-fish waste) for my tank? I have thought about adding another fish or two.

Thanks again!

Look up threads on here by Big E ,Ed has 2 beautiful tanks that are sps he has been running for years. (25) I think he said i have seen them in person and bought beautiful frags from him .

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

 

[echopiece]

[MENTION=243321]Patrick Cox[/MENTION] When I first looked at your corals, my first thought was low nutrients. They don't look too bad, but they are on the light side. Either get some more fish, or feed a little more. Every tank is different, but for some reason my corals look the best with NO3 in the 20 range, and PO4 around 0.05. I would leave your light the way it is for now, and wouldn't drop it down. Also, I wouldn't completely trust that Hana PO4 test reading at 0.03. I believe Hanna has a +- of 0.03, so you could really be reading 0. I too started with Tampa Bay rock, and I went through phases of algae. Maybe try feeding a 1/2 cube every day. Try some different foods too, like Rod's or LRS. I feed pellets and flake at lunch and about 1/2 to 3/4 cube of frozen LRS at dinner. Try and not worry too much about NO3 and PO4 numbers and just observe your tank and corals.

How often are you cleaning your glass of algae?

 

[DanConnor]

Yeah, I have the same lighting on a 200 and its plenty. I would increase nitrates, and imo the best way to do that is more fish.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into adding more fish. I was thinking about 4-5 Blue Green Chromis but I have been worried about them killing each other. I'm not sure if that is really a significant problem or not but I will look into it a bit more.

Thanks!

 

[reefmutt]

Can you take a couple hours off another 2 t5?
Instead of having the 6 bulb period on for the 7.5 hr , I’d consider having only a 4.5 ‘all on’ period and keep 2 more t5s off an extra couple hours..
I hope that makes sense... instead of your 2 on and then all on for your t5s, I’m suggesting 2 on and then another two and then last 4 (all 8) for only 4.5 hrs.. not sure the ati allows for that.
I’m thinking you are giving the corals more light than the they need... maybe not more than they can tolerate just more than they need..
I am also in agreement that your nutrients are a bit low.. and by the way I don’t see any nuisance algae in there! Unless he cuc has already done its job..
Your corals look pretty good. That ice/fire looking coral is stunning.
A couple more fish may just be the answer to your problems..

Edit: I see in your fts that there is a bit of nuisance algae. Fwiw, adding a cuc that eats the algae will recycle that algae into nutrients for the corals.. a bigger cuc has a similar effect as adding a fish.. eaten algae = nutrients for corals but also eaten algae leaves the nutrients in the water column for corals instead of the algae consuming them first..

 

[Patrick Cox]

Can you take a couple hours off another 2 t5?
Instead of having the 6 bulb period on for the 7.5 hr , I'd consider having only a 4.5 "˜all on' period and keep 2 more t5s off an extra couple hours..
I hope that makes sense... instead of your 2 on and then all on for your t5s, I'm suggesting 2 on and then another two and then last 4 (all 8) for only 4.5 hrs.. not sure the ati allows for that.
I'm thinking you are giving the corals more light than the they need... maybe not more than they can tolerate just more than they need..
I am also in agreement that your nutrients are a bit low.. and by the way I don't see any nuisance algae in there! Unless he cuc has already done its job..
Your corals look pretty good. That ice/fire looking coral is stunning.
A couple more fish may just be the answer to your problems..

Edit: I see in your fts that there is a bit of nuisance algae. Fwiw, adding a cuc that eats the algae will recycle that algae into nutrients for the corals.. a bigger cuc has a similar effect as adding a fish.. eaten algae = nutrients for corals but also eaten algae leaves the nutrients in the water column for corals instead of the algae consuming them first..

Thanks for your reply. I actually had someone else tell me they thought I was running my lights too long or to close to the surface based on the nutrients in my tank. That sounds similar to your suggestion. So yes, I could decrease the light in my tank, just not exactly as you suggest. But I will consider that.

In terms of the algae, I now have about 15-20 Astrea snails that are making a dent in the algae. And then the rock in the middle of the tank is Tampa Bay rock I just purchased and I got a couple of small urchins with that rock and they are now working on the algae as well. So I think I am on a good path to get rid of the algae. But maybe for now I do also need to turn down my lights a bit.

And then I am also trying to figure out the fish I want to add.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Patrick Cox]

....Edit: I see in your fts that there is a bit of nuisance algae. Fwiw, adding a cuc that eats the algae will recycle that algae into nutrients for the corals.. a bigger cuc has a similar effect as adding a fish.. eaten algae = nutrients for corals but also eaten algae leaves the nutrients in the water column for corals instead of the algae consuming them first..

Just thought I would post this. Here is what a small urchin can do to algae!!

You can see on the left where the urchin just was. On the right and above is what the rock looks like before the urchin!... :dance:

 

[reefmutt]

Urchins rock!!

 

[Patrick Cox]

I just read an article by Scott Fellman (Unique Corals) in which he suggested among other things that one may not want to run a protein skimmer 24/7 as this may strip too many nutrients out of the water column. He suggested "frequent" skimming instead of continuous skimming. Like only at night or a few days per week.

So now I am wondering if this is something I should consider to preserve more nutrients for my corals. And then my only concern would be how this would affect the water level in my sump and fluctuations in salinity due to on/off water top offs. It might not be an issue but I do know that if I turn my skimmer off the water will rise just a bit and then when I turn my skimmer on it will lower.

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

Pat

 

[GreenTankCorals]

If you look up "Big E" threads, they are very informative and motivational.
"Mr V" threads are excellent with useful info on skimmer running etc.

 

[scottbeyer101]

I'll second earlier comment that you may have too much light, or running them too long if your issue is coloring. If you can borrow a PAR meter (from a club or LFS) then you can empirically judge (and share your findings here!)

Here is a link to Dana Riddle's MACNA presentation that (among other factors) discusses PAR effects on photosynthesis and the color/growth trade off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBktpJ3umAs

 

[Patrick Cox]

I'll second earlier comment that you may have too much light, or running them too long if your issue is coloring. If you can borrow a PAR meter (from a club or LFS) then you can empirically judge (and share your findings here!)

Here is a link to Dana Riddle's MACNA presentation that (among other factors) discusses PAR effects on photosynthesis and the color/growth trade off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBktpJ3umAs

I reduced my daytime light schedule by 1 hour so we will see how that does. I am also going to start feeding some oyster feast a couple times per week until I am able to add a few more fish.

Thanks for the link. I will check that out.

 

[Denadai]

-Dose ESV 2 part on 1ml pumps, dosing every hour. Currently dosing 24ml per day

Too much in my opinion....5 ml daily is enough

Best Regards

 

[Patrick Cox]

Too much in my opinion....5 ml daily is enough



Best Regards

What is your basis for 5 ml per day? My system stays pretty stable in this range. If I only dosed 5 ml per day my alk would decline.

 

[Patrick Cox]

I'll second earlier comment that you may have too much light, or running them too long if your issue is coloring. If you can borrow a PAR meter (from a club or LFS) then you can empirically judge (and share your findings here!)

Here is a link to Dana Riddle's MACNA presentation that (among other factors) discusses PAR effects on photosynthesis and the color/growth trade off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBktpJ3umAs

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed that video. It reminds me that I need to get back to MACNA soon!

I have a quantum PAR sensor that I use with a volt meter and over the weekend I measured that the PAR where most of my corals are ranges from 225 to 325. So I think I am in a good range, agree?

I also reduced my day light time by an hour and I also reduced some overlap with my actinics. I was running them longer during daylight.


Here is my current schedule:

2 Actinics - 11:00 am - 12:30 pm - @ 100%

6 Bulbs - 12:00 - 18:30 (3 B+, 2 C+, 1 P+) @ 100%

2 Actinics - 18:00 - 20:30 - ramps down from 100% to 25%

Reef bright LED Blue Strip - 18:30 - 20:30 - @ 10% (just for night viewing.)



I also bought some Oyster Feast and I plan to direct feed my corals once per week for now.

I do notice that I don't need to clean my glass as much as I used to. Not sure why but I feel pretty certain that my nutrients are low. The urchins and snails are doing a good job on the existing algae on the rocks and I am not seeing any new algae on the rocks.

Thanks for any additional thoughts or comments. I am still planning to add more fish when I can get a QT tank setup.

Here is a new FTS. I added a few more Battle Corals...

 

[scottbeyer101]

At least according to Dana Riddle's research, that is the perfect range for your SPS.

I do run my lights a little longer than your schedule, but at slightly less PAR on average and my animals are pretty happy. I would like to see a little more polyp extension, but the color and growth are good.

Keep us posted.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Too much in my opinion....5 ml daily is enough

Best Regards

Does this make sense to anyone?