120 G DT ~ 200 G Total System - Build Thread

[Liquid Hobby]

So, it begins - again! After a 1.5 year hiatus from reefing, previous tank died in spectacular fashion, I'm back and building a new system. Everything will be net new for this system. I'm still a few months out from the tank seeing water, but I'm starting to generate questions. I feel like I've forgotten more in 1.5 years than the 4 years I was reefing...

First question: I partitioned off the fuge into 2 sections. I was thinking of mud/rock crude with cheato on one side with sand and live rock on the other. Good - bad or stupid idea?

Next question: Heating! I will be getting a controller. How many watts do I need for a 200 G system where the sump is in the garage - I live in the PNW? I will run several heaters to reach the required watts.

Anyway, here's the beginning of the filtration closet in the garage - which is on the opposite side of the wall from where the tank will be: The top 40G tank is an over DT dedicated refugium that will gravity feed into the display, the 10G tank is the topoff res and the bottom is obviously the sump with a giant Reef Octopus skimmer. The CL pump is behind the raw wood:

Here's the 120 G tank, with dual overflows. I got this tank really cheap because it had a manufacturer's very minor scratch on it. The blue tape is there because I cut away the center brace! Before anybody tells me about the impending explosion let me explain: I will be epoxying in a new 3/4' dia fiberglass rod that has been wrapped in 5 layers of unidirectional carbon and will be attached via more carbon - hence the tape. It will be SO much stronger than the plastic. I did this because I do not want a giant shadow in the middle of my tank:

Flow will be supplied with a Dart 3600 GPH closed loop system via an OM 4 way - 2 out lets in the bottom front and 2 outlets in the bottom back. The return is a panworld 1150 GPH that will send 30% to the fuge and the rest to the DT via a SCWD.

Here's the stand in primer. I decided not to go to the trouble of staining and varnishing and will be painting to match the wall it will be up against.

Still awaiting parts, like a calcium reactor, GFO reactor, and true unions so I can plumb the OM - which will be the only thing in the stand!

There will be more questions coming as this will be my first time using MH as my old tank had T5s. MH lighting boggles my mind with the amount of variations. I'm leaning towards the Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite HQI - that seems to be the easy part, the bulbs on the other hand.... I do like the radium 20Ks for their color. Thoughts...?

 

[adddo]

Looks nice! I'll follow this, keep us updated.

 

[Liquid Hobby]

New questions... we'll work on the old ones later!

Finished plumbing the entire system yesterday and did a fresh water system test. It's all going to plan, somewhat... First major issue is my durso overflows do not work. Well, they 'work' but it sounds like a dying animal being pulled under, gasping for it's last breath - it's surging/flushing. Clearly, I did something wrong there. I'll be trying something different tomorrow.

Here's an interesting question: I have a dedicated 40G fuge above the tank that gravity feeds into the display. It is fed via the return pump, panworld 1150 GPH which is also the main return pump. It is T'd off with a ball valve as I want far less flow into the fuge then the DT. However, the fuge will only accept a very small amount of flow, a really small amount of flow as the fuge drains do not seem to be able to keep up. Here's what I can get away without overflowing the fuge:

trickle... trickle... trickle

I'm not that worried about the amount of flow in as I don't need that much flow thru the fuge, but it sure doesn't seem like much at all.

Here's the interesting part, I have 1 x 3/4" feed (couple/few hundred GPHs off the return) to the fuge and 2 x 3/4" drains to the DT. - but they can't keep up!? However, the outlets are about 16" deep into the DT (prob 2' below the fuge water level). Would that depth create some form of back pressure slowing the gravity fed water, reducing the amount of water/flow it can drain? That's my guess... I can still put the fuge drains along the top and down an inch or so, but I was looking to 'inject' the inhabitants of the fuge deeper in the water column/rocks and keep tubes and nozzles out of direct viewing...

This is why the fresh water test is so critical, I get to see everything that I screwed up before it's too late!

Here's the right side fuge outlet, long black tube terminating just above the CL outlet:

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Here's the DT with fresh - I'll work on better pics as I splash the tank with salt!:

Loving the Dart 3600 GPH and the OM 4 way, plenty of surface movement 24" away from the outlets - and it's very quiet.:

Here's the plumbing. The yellow line holding up the OM is from my sailboat, it's 3/16" Vectran and rated to something like 3,200lbs breaking strength, should do the job no problem, it's even made for a marine enviro! Gotta love spa flex!

Here's the filter closet - I will make some doors for it... The fuge is split 50/50, the left side will be bare bottom and cheato the right side will be rock rubble and live rock. No sand in the fuge. There will be 2-3" of sand in the diaplay:

Here's the 40G sump. The little 90 elbow will be the water change/sump drain to an outside drainage system:

I was tired of trash cans for water storage and mixing, then rolling a can around with water in it, so I got some large storage tanks. Left is salt - right is fresh. I'll be able to gravity feed salt water directly into the sump. 175 Gs of water should I need to do a massive water change. It's just a matter of how long it takes to heat 100 Gs of salt water... TBP - To be Plumbed together.

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Last post, gotta get some sleep. I sure hope folks tag along and help me out!

As we are all reef geeks, here's my equipment list:
120 AGA DT, dual overflow, RR
2 x 40G bdr sump and fuge
10G RO/DI top off tank
Top off: Tunze Osmolator, really nice piece of equipment, but it comes with lots of ?s.
Skimmer: Reef Octopus NW 200 - man it's big compared to my old one
Calcium reactor: Reef Octopus 140, 6" dia chamber, PH probe with Reef Fanatic regulator and solenoid, 5lbs bottle
Return: Panworld 150 PX-X = ~1200 GPH, SCWD to returns
CL: Reeflo Dart 3600 GPH to a OM 4 way a 1&3, 2&4 drum
GFO: BRS Jumbo GFO reactor
Carbon: I'm going to place a filter sock just below the last partial baffle in the sump
Controller: Reef Keeper Elite V2
Ballast:Lumatek digital ballast 250 WT to 400 WT
Reflectors: Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite HQI
Bulbs: Now leaning towards 250 Watt XM 10K with T5 atinic supplement
LED moonlights -the basic
Rock: 65% dry rock in the DT: Pukani, Plate and 'reef saver' from BRS with real live rock maybe from TBS for seeding, plus as much rock as I can fit in the fuge bought locally
Sand: yes
Water: 5 stage RO/DI with inline TDS in/out meter.

I have a ton of other questions!

 

[Liquid Hobby]

bump... little help

 

[Guy340]

To your 2 questions in your first post:

1) You don't necessarily need to partition them off. I'd just leave it as one huge sump. This way you'll have a haven, should you need it for any fish that require different accomodations, but you still would like to keep.

2) Heating, two 200W heaters are perfect. You'll have redundancy enough to keep you running should one run out of blow up.

Hope that helps, especially since I had the same tank at one point. Other than that, you're off to a great start, keep up the good work.

 

[austin93]

I think it looks very clean and professional. Where did you find the water vats? They are something that makes a big difference in aesthetics if you ask me.

 

[Sparhawk]

Liquid Hobby,
Having just moved, I am between tanks, and and simply lurking. I like your plans with the filtration closet on the back wall. I am thinking of doing something very similar when I get back to resurrecting my reef.
I can't say I have alot of wisdom to ad to your questions. I think your plan for the fuge is great. Should provide lots of space for 'pods to grow/feed.
I have no idea regarding how many heaters you'll need. One thought: to cut down on your energy expenses, could you place some insulation around the filter closet, and on the doors? Perhaps just glue some foam or styrofoam panels to the outside. Not sure how sexy or clean it would look, but may save you some cash in the end....Either way it's an excuse to go troll the home improvement store for ideas. Good luck, and I am definitely subscribing!
Tom

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Thanks for answers guy340

I think it looks very clean and professional. Where did you find the water vats? They are something that makes a big difference in aesthetics if you ask me.

It was a 2 week google/web spelunking expedition to find a local dealer that I could drive to. Saved me $200+ in shipping. These tanks are Norwestco tanks purchased via a local distributor. The 100G was ~ $150 and the 75G was ~ $115.

Sparhawk - I'll insulate if it's required. the filter closet is int he garage which stays a nice 50ish degree in the winter. I'll have MH lights, so heat wont be an issue.

Can anyone help my with this most pressing question:
I have a dedicated 40G fuge above the tank that gravity feeds into the display. However, the fuge will only accept a very small amount of flow, a really small amount of flow as the fuge drains do not seem to be able to keep up.

Here's the interesting part, I have 1 x 3/4" feed (couple/few hundred GPHs off the return) to the fuge and 2 x 3/4" drains to the DT - but they can't keep up!? However, the outlets are about 16" deep into the DT (prob 2' below the fuge water level). Would that depth create some form of back pressure slowing the gravity fed water, reducing the amount of water/flow it can drain?

 

[Lyfey]

I think I found the answer to your problem.

The drains on the fuge, are just open bulkheads, air has to get in them. try putting a 90degree street elbow on each, turned in a 45degree angle, it will let some air in and boost your drain by a ton. Just my .02c

-Chris

 

[Lyfey]

as it sits right now, its sorta designed for a full syphon without any air. but its not a full syphon cause you are still adjusting the amount of water coming into the tank. I bet you those elbows will fix your problem.

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Actually, air does get in. Because I can't increase the flow beyond a certain point, the water never covers the bulkhead opening entirely. I would think a full siphon would produce more force/flow. I made some 45 elbows originally with a giant hole on the top to stop any siphon. Same thing happens...

 

[Palting]

Oops. Double post. Sorry.

 

[Palting]

Does your fuge drain go straight down to the DT, or is there an up and down course like a water trap? I have 1" drains in my fuge and I also could only get a trickle flow due to this watertrap course I created for bubble control. I changed the tubing to a continuous downward course, and can get 700 gph through the single 1" drain. Makes a ton of bubbles though.

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Well, the drains do flow down then up slightly to reach the top of the tank rim - a 6" dip to get past the filter closet 2x6s. Not sure I'd call it a water trap as it's 2 single 3/4" lines into the DT from the fuge. Water seeks it's own level... the down then up 'shouldn't' matter. I still think it has to do with pushing 16" of DT water out of the way.

I will drill some holes along the fuge return below the water line to see if that eases some of the 'pressure' of the fuge water having to push water to drain. In the end, I don't need a ton of flow to the fuge anyway. I can throw in a little maxi jet to create flow within the fuge if so needed.

I am contemplating upping the fuge returns/drains to 1".

Really appreciate the responses.

 

[Sparhawk]

Liquid Hobby,
After re-reading your posts above and looking at the pictures, I think your assumption is correct. Having the drain from the fuge 16'' below the water line would mean that there is about 0.66 psi at the drain end (0.44 psi/foot saltwater), which will push back against the force of the water trying to drain. So, either set the discharge closer to the water line, or drill holes along the discharge pipe to decrease the back pressure.
Hope this helps.....forgive the relative lack of complicated physics explanation.
Cheers,
Tom

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Thanks sparhawk... so some intuition does work in this hobby! .66 psi doesn't sound like much but against a gravity feed it's pretty substantial.

 

[Lyfey]

why not make a small standpipe at the entrance into the DT?

 

[Liquid Hobby]

Yeah, I can do that too. I just thought it'd be good to get the bugs down low in the water column. I can run the fuge outlets along the rim and then down. I also don't want to splash pods next tot he overflow.

Now I'm on to trying to quiet my dursos...