120g safe on the second floor?

[coralnut99]

I'm getting the impression that this is an apartment. If I'm right, I think you're biggest obstacle is your landlord, and his fear of flood/water damage. (you should fear it too, as you would be responsible). You may want to check your lease before jumping in.

 

[cougaraug]

good point. I found a one story w/ slab floors and talked the landlord into it w/ an extra $500 lease.

 

[Slickbaby]

I've stacked two 55gal one on top of the other each with about 20gal sumps and it was fine. House was built in '81. Its all about going perpendicular to your joists. A load bearing wall doesnt hurt things either.

If you cant run perpendicular to the joists, you can always buy a $30 support that can go underneath it, but thats sort of a pain. I had to do that with my 180gal because I wanted to run it on a wall that ran the same way as the joists.

 

[Dorado13]

For those of you coming in mid-thread, here is a little recap. I want to put a 120 gallon tank with maybe a 40gallon sump on the 2nd floor of my HOUSE. The tank will be against a load bearing wall and would like to place it on the side that would make the tank perpendicular to floor joists, but do not know how to find out which direction the joists are going. Is there some way to find this out short of pulling up the floor boards?

Slickbaby, what kind of support are you talking about?

 

[hllywd]

Go to the basement or crawl space and see how the first floor joists run in the same area of the house. The second floor will be the same.

Tim

 

[kalare]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7823544#post7823544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
Go to the basement or crawl space and see how the first floor joists run in the same area of the house. The second floor will be the same.

Tim

Not everyone has a basement or crawlspace, many houses are built on concrete slab. Even if he does have a basement or crawlspace, this doesn't mean the floor joists run the same way, this is in fact a bad assumption as I have designed many houses, and many have opposing joists.

And to all the people saying it'll be fine setting the tank perpendicular to the joists, this is quite possibly true, but all situations differ. Depending on the size, spacing, grade of wood, and length of joist, there is a GOOD possibility of problems. If you own this house, you should have blueprints or plans for it. If not, all building records are public by law, so you should be able to find something.

How about you draw and layout of the floor, and where you want to put your tank with some measurements (wall to wall length, room dimensions) and then we may have a better idea of what will and won't work. Also, if you have any areas on the first floor with unfinished ceiling (closet, under a light fixture, etc) try to figure out how deep your joists are, then we'll be in business. Give some more info, maybe I can help.

 

[Dorado13]

Thanks Kalare for the help, I appreciate it.

This house doesn't have a crawl space or basement so its pretty tough to tellwhich way the joists are going. No unfinished ceilings either. I checked the joists in the attic and they are running parallel to my tank, but like you said that may not mean that the joists in my floor are running the same way.

Here is a sketch of the floorplan of my room.

 

[Dorado13]

Here is a picture of my room where I plan on putting the tank. The 120 will replace the dresser and bearded dragon cage.

 

[kalare]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7828778#post7828778 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dorado13
Here is a picture of my room where I plan on putting the tank. The 120 will replace the dresser and bearded dragon cage.

Is this a house, apartment or dorm? If possilbe, Do you have the layout of the floor below? I'm assuming it is relatively the same, as most houses are, but you never know.

Just from your sketch the floor joists most likely run perpendicular to your tank, meaning they would span the 10'-8". You'll probably have a min of a 2x10 with this span, but again, hard to tell. Can you possible go to the floor below, and unscrew a lighting fixure or vent on the ceiling and measure?

 

[Dorado13]

This is a house and my room sits directly on top of the garage. I've tried taking off a couple of light fixtures but the housings that they are attached to are plastered onto the drywall making it tough to get in there. I suppose I'll have to go and check out the blue prints to find out about the joists.

 

[hllywd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7826030#post7826030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kalare
Not everyone has a basement or crawlspace, many houses are built on concrete slab. Even if he does have a basement or crawlspace, this doesn't mean the floor joists run the same way, this is in fact a bad assumption as I have designed many houses, and many have opposing joists.

And to all the people saying it'll be fine setting the tank perpendicular to the joists, this is quite possibly true, but all situations differ. Depending on the size, spacing, grade of wood, and length of joist, there is a GOOD possibility of problems. If you own this house, you should have blueprints or plans for it. If not, all building records are public by law, so you should be able to find something.

How about you draw and layout of the floor, and where you want to put your tank with some measurements (wall to wall length, room dimensions) and then we may have a better idea of what will and won't work. Also, if you have any areas on the first floor with unfinished ceiling (closet, under a light fixture, etc) try to figure out how deep your joists are, then we'll be in business. Give some more info, maybe I can help.

My appologies for the basement and crawlspace assumption. I will however stand by the rule of thumb for determining joist direction. There are exceptions of course but in my experience having built several houses from footer to finish and working in many more under construction they are exactly that, exceptions not the rule.

I can tell you without a doubt every joist in my house runs north and south except for ceiling joists at the east and west ends under the roof hips. I have 2"x10"SYP floor joists 16"OC and am confident that as long as I placed a 6' tank perpendicular to the joists on a bearing wall there would be no problems upstairs or down.

Dorado, Could you post a pic of the exterior of the house looking at the window over the bearded dragon cage including the roof? That may tell a little more than a pic of the inside of the room. Also as kalare suggested, if you can get into an opening in the first floor ceiling to measure the joist height it would be helpful.

Tim

 

[hllywd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7829370#post7829370 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dorado13
This is a house and my room sits directly on top of the garage. I've tried taking off a couple of light fixtures but the housings that they are attached to are plastered onto the drywall making it tough to get in there. I suppose I'll have to go and check out the blue prints to find out about the joists.

By all means if you are able to find the prints do. Keep in mind just because the prints specify materials doesn't always mean the builder didn't take a shortcut...

Tim

 

[RowingMunkeyCU]

im trying to figure out a similar situation right now. im looking at getting a AGA 125 (72"x18"x22") and i just moved into a new apartment in an old house. and when i say old, i mean realllly old, it was built in 1867.

so now for a few questions...

1. has anyone on here actually ever consulted a structural engineer?

2. where would i go to get blueprints of the house?

3. any ideas as to whether the floors would support that sortof weight?

4. would it be enough to put it across the joists and put a support beam with steel lally columns in the basement below it without having to consult an engineer?

 

[Flobajob]

My house is Edwardian (around 100 years old). Do you think my 90 gallon tank plus 20 gallon sump will be alright on the second floor (1st floor in the UK)? It is against a load bearing wall and perpendicular to the floor joists.

 

[hllywd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7877806#post7877806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RowingMunkeyCU
im trying to figure out a similar situation right now. im looking at getting a AGA 125 (72"x18"x22") and i just moved into a new apartment in an old house. and when i say old, i mean realllly old, it was built in 1867.

so now for a few questions...

1. has anyone on here actually ever consulted a structural engineer?

2. where would i go to get blueprints of the house?

3. any ideas as to whether the floors would support that sortof weight?

4. would it be enough to put it across the joists and put a support beam with steel lally columns in the basement below it without having to consult an engineer?

1.) No, but then I'm pretty confident of my construction skills...

2.) Good Luck.... If there were prints... and unless the house is famously historic they probably are long gone.

3.) You or somebody needs to evaluate the floor system as it exists now. Even if you could find a print, what has happened in the intervening 139 years that may affect the structural integrity of the flooring system?

4.) See #3. If you determine the floor system to be sound (no dry rot, termites, weakening from stress, etc...), I would say yes, a 4x6 supported by 2 or 3 jack posts directly under the tank should work. You also may need to shim under each joist due to non standard lumber dimensions from the period.

Hope that helps!

Tim

 

[ewoodrick]

Dorado,

Look at where the light fixtures are attached. If they have nails in the top, then try to see which way that board is oriented, the support beams will be perpendicular to it. If it is nailed on the side, then that's probably your support beams that they are nailed into.

Another way, get a stud finder and sweep the ceiling or floor. Should be pretty obvious.

Also, if it is a two car garage and there are support poles in the middle of the garage, then the support beams will be running perpendicular to the line of poles.

Heck, go find some new houses in your area and just go see how houses are built.