125 tank new to saltwater

[Figment]

So I have been doing months of research on discus care. Partial because of a bad experience getting information in another forum and partially because I read its easier (from a maintenance perspective), I have been toying with the idea of doing a saltwater tank instead. I am a marine biologist, so I have a decent amount of understanding of the ocean (even though I have never owned a saltwater tank), but my job centers around marine mammals. Now I understand the ocean is not an aquarium (well....it kind of is a REALLY big and complex one LOL) and there will be several things I haven't got a clue about, so teach me just like any other newbie.

So I will be looking to acquire a large gallon tank around 125 gallons soon since I understand larger water volumes are more forgiving with rookies. I would slowly building up the equipment I need to successfully run the tank. I want to start off relatively easy with a fish only tank and work my way into corals and such down the road once I have enough experience to confidently run a fish only tank.

I know I will need 1 pound per gallon of live rock, 1 pound per gallon of live sand, a protein skimmer, filter(s) (can anyone recommend a good one for salt because I haven't the slightest what works best for saltwater?), heaters, a refractometer, powerhead(s)(?), and salt mix. So beyond what I already have listed, what else will I need to setup a fully functional saltwater tank? Also, please give any pointers you have on the type of equipment I should buy (either a best brand/model or a better design aspect).

Now how is the salt mix used? Clearly you add it to water before you add it to a tank, but do I need another tank to age/mix the water in or do I just mix it in a bucket until I get the right refractometer reading?

I figure I am going to buy all the equipment I need and get everything setup and buy 2 clownfish with the live rock (which will of course be the last item I add to finish off the tank before adding fish). I will purchase my fish slowly as money becomes available. Since I only get paid every two weeks and marine fish are so expensive, the fastest I can see myself adding fish would be 1-2 every four weeks since having to pay bills sucks and all it does is gets in the way of my hobby. LOL

I know that a quarantine tank is important to have as I add fish (another reason to only buy 1-2 fish every four weeks), but if I were to setup my 20 gallon tank as a quarantine tank, would the same equipment be needed as the large display tank (protein skimmer, decorated with live sand/rock or bare bottom, or any other special needs)?

So I have a rough stock list that isn't entirely complete, but I know marine tanks require lower bio loads than freshwater tanks would, so I don't want to over exert the tank I get.

So it would be a 125 (hopefully with sump for the extra water volume, but lets assume it will just be other filters) stocked with:
- 1 flame angel
- 1 tang (leaning towards a Mimic Ebili Tang. Can a 125 house another small tang or is their conspecifics too much?)
- 2 Ocellaris or Clarkii clownfish
- 5-6 Bangaii cardinals
- 1 butterflyfish (thinking Raccoon or Spotfin)
- 1-2 Mandarin gobies (I know these fish require Copepods to eat. Doesn't anything else on my list eat Copepods? Also, would 125 gallons be enough room to keep copepods breeding enough to feed two of these gobies? I also know they require older tanks in the 6+ months range. Is there a way to spead that along at all?)
- 3-4 neon gobies (I know they clean in the wild, but will tank bred specimens also still have he instinct to clean or has that been bred out? I had read gobies can assist with cleaning and a little bit of disease control is why i am interested. I worked in a state aquarium years ago and loved this group of 5 or 6 neon gobies that would just sit and clean all the Goliath groupers in the tank as they came over. Also, if they eat copepods, I will probably only get 1-2 or none since I would rather have the Mandarin.)
- I want some other small fish but am not sure what would work with my tank nor am I attached to any one idea. I like the looks of hawkfish, jawfish, hogfish, a puffer, dottybacks and several other species. So I am open to any and all suggestions. I just want to make sure I am not overloading my tank at all because I want my first saltwater and to be a success.
- I am also interested in what would be a good cleanup crew for this list of fish.

And of course even though I have done quite a bit of research in saltwater care and my stock list, I appreciate any feedback on potential aggressive fish or anything I might be thinking about incorrectly (I would say doing, but I haven't even started yet LOL).

I may be interested in corals later on. What would I need to do differently if that is something that I might want to experiment with?

 

[RayL]

You have a lot up here, so I will answer a couple for you. As for the filter, people have their own opinions but for my FOWLR I have a sump that house my skimmer and besides that I have about 1.5 lbs of live rock per gallon in my tank and sump combined. Live rock will be your filter, just don't forget when filling your tank with rock to make sure to leave room for the fish to swim.

As for adding the fish with the rock, don't do it, your tank needs to cycle. So I would suggest adding the live rock, monitoring the cycle and probably waiting about 6 weeks for the cycle to take place.

For the copepods, you can buy pods which will speed up the time until you can get a mandarin. Also consider a refugium in the sump or seperate to maintain a healthy pod population.

As for eating pods, the flame will, clowns will have a minimal amount and I don't think anything else will. You should be fine with 1 possible 2 mandarins down the road. Don't rush into them though, make sure your pod population can sustain them.

For the QT I run a hang on the back aqua clear on a 30 gallon tank. No skimmer, sand, or rock. You want it basic and empty, I put in fake plants and PVC piping for the fish to hide in. Nothing live as it will absorb the chemicals you dose (cupramine/prazipro) for most people

Good luck, I might have missed a few of your thoughts but hope this helps for now

 

[anbosu]

You could do a yellow tang or a bristle tooth tang. Basically with the mimic you just want to avoid any other acanthurus tangs and you should be ok.

 

[anbosu]

I also recommend buying an ro/di system at the beginning

 

[RayL]

Personally I use tap water and treat it with prime, been doing this for 10 years and never had a problem, I do not keep corals though.

As for mixing the salt, I put it in a large container, mix it around with a paddle, wait maybe 10 minutes and then use it for a water change.

 

[Monkeyfish]

The "pound of rock per gallon" thing is a myth. The amount of filtration you need will depend on your overall set-up and stocking. Different types of rock have different densities and can take up more or less space. You're better off getting more porous, lighter weight rock to provide more surface area and surface to water contact area for the beneficial bacteria. Don't fill the tank up with rock - it looks terrible, it's difficult to get good flow/water circulation, hard to clean and the fish won't have any room to swim.

Sand. Either keep none, a thin coating of up to an inch or four + inches. It depends on preference and livestock. Some animals need a deep sand-bed. Bare-bottom tanks are easy to clean, but IMO look ugly. Some people like them, so what do I know . Sand beds deeper than an inch can lead to difficulties if not properly maintained. Do a search for DSB or deep sand beds.

If at all possible, get a sump. It adds water volume and provides a place for all of your equipment making the set-up look much nicer. Most of the better skimmers need a sump, especially for a tank that size. Rule of thumb for a skimmer is always get one rated for a larger tank than what you have. I wouldn't put any skimmer "rated" for less than a 200 gallon tank on a 125. Skimmer efficiecy is determined by the pump it uses, amount of air it pulls and its design. A powerful pump in and of itself is meaningless unless the skimmer is properly designed to accommodate it.

Don't get more than one Banggai. In our aquariums, they are not schooling fish and will kill each other until one or a mated pair remain. If you want multiple cardinals look at "blue-streaked" or Pajama cardinals. The former form shoals while the latter tend to put up with each other with minor squabbling. You won't acutally get schooling behavior in a small aquarium, but you can get shoals.

Butterfly fish and dwarf angels may snack on any corals you add so don't get them unless you're mainly interested in the fish or don't plan on adding corals.

Some sp. of puffers are quite aggressive and can get too big for a 125. Most puffers will decimate a CUC. Snails, hermits and shrimp = snacks.

QT tanks should be bare bottom wtih PVC tubes to provide hiding spots. A skimmer can't hurt, but generally isn't necessary depending on your QT practices.

Most fish eat pods, but the mandarins generally need them to survive; although some people are successful at getting them to take prepared foods. This a fish that should not be added for 6-12 months to allow your tank to get established and build up enough fauna to support them.

 

[Ryphen]

Don't forget the light. Don't need anything fancy for a FOWLR setup, but if you're planning to get into corals down the road, you may want to buy a light that'll be able to support them up front instead of upgrading later.

 

[Figment]

You have a lot up here, so I will answer a couple for you. As for the filter, people have their own opinions but for my FOWLR I have a sump that house my skimmer and besides that I have about 1.5 lbs of live rock per gallon in my tank and sump combined. Live rock will be your filter, just don't forget when filling your tank with rock to make sure to leave room for the fish to swim.

As for adding the fish with the rock, don't do it, your tank needs to cycle. So I would suggest adding the live rock, monitoring the cycle and probably waiting about 6 weeks for the cycle to take place.

For the copepods, you can buy pods which will speed up the time until you can get a mandarin. Also consider a refugium in the sump or seperate to maintain a healthy pod population.

As for eating pods, the flame will, clowns will have a minimal amount and I don't think anything else will. You should be fine with 1 possible 2 mandarins down the road. Don't rush into them though, make sure your pod population can sustain them.

For the QT I run a hang on the back aqua clear on a 30 gallon tank. No skimmer, sand, or rock. You want it basic and empty, I put in fake plants and PVC piping for the fish to hide in. Nothing live as it will absorb the chemicals you dose (cupramine/prazipro) for most people

Good luck, I might have missed a few of your thoughts but hope this helps for now

Sweet. Thanks for the feedback.

So is cycling a saltwater tank fish less the same as in freshwater? I have done freshwater fish less cycles.

Good advice. I will look into a refugium for a sump and hopefully the pods will breed often.

I think the Mandarins fall higher on the list of wants than the flame angel, so if it will compete with the gobies, I will probably pass on it. If the clowns won't eat much, I will keep them.

Thanks for QT tank info. Do you always dose meds when QTing fish or only if they come down with something?

 

[Figment]

You could do a yellow tang or a bristle tooth tang. Basically with the mimic you just want to avoid any other acanthurus tangs and you should be ok.

I don't want a yellow. Yellow is my least favorite color and I feel like the yellow tangs are in every saltwater tank I have ever seen. LOL

I have looked at the bristle nose and am on the fence about it. I really like the mimic, but its more of a second choice as I would prefer to have a blue hippo or sailfin, but obviously they get too big. If I could fit two tangs in a 125 peacefully by introducing them at the same time, what species would work?

 

[Figment]

The "pound of rock per gallon" thing is a myth. The amount of filtration you need will depend on your overall set-up and stocking. Different types of rock have different densities and can take up more or less space. You're better off getting more porous, lighter weight rock to provide more surface area and surface to water contact area for the beneficial bacteria. Don't fill the tank up with rock - it looks terrible, it's difficult to get good flow/water circulation, hard to clean and the fish won't have any room to swim.

Sand. Either keep none, a thin coating of up to an inch or four + inches. It depends on preference and livestock. Some animals need a deep sand-bed. Bare-bottom tanks are easy to clean, but IMO look ugly. Some people like them, so what do I know . Sand beds deeper than an inch can lead to difficulties if not properly maintained. Do a search for DSB or deep sand beds.

If at all possible, get a sump. It adds water volume and provides a place for all of your equipment making the set-up look much nicer. Most of the better skimmers need a sump, especially for a tank that size. Rule of thumb for a skimmer is always get one rated for a larger tank than what you have. I wouldn't put any skimmer "rated" for less than a 200 gallon tank on a 125. Skimmer efficiecy is determined by the pump it uses, amount of air it pulls and its design. A powerful pump in and of itself is meaningless unless the skimmer is properly designed to accommodate it.

Don't get more than one Banggai. In our aquariums, they are not schooling fish and will kill each other until one or a mated pair remain. If you want multiple cardinals look at "blue-streaked" or Pajama cardinals. The former form shoals while the latter tend to put up with each other with minor squabbling. You won't acutally get schooling behavior in a small aquarium, but you can get shoals.

Butterfly fish and dwarf angels may snack on any corals you add so don't get them unless you're mainly interested in the fish or don't plan on adding corals.

Some sp. of puffers are quite aggressive and can get too big for a 125. Most puffers will decimate a CUC. Snails, hermits and shrimp = snacks.

QT tanks should be bare bottom wtih PVC tubes to provide hiding spots. A skimmer can't hurt, but generally isn't necessary depending on your QT practices.

Most fish eat pods, but the mandarins generally need them to survive; although some people are successful at getting them to take prepared foods. This a fish that should not be added for 6-12 months to allow your tank to get established and build up enough fauna to support them.

Thanks for all the info.

I have read a lot of the 1 pound per gallon rule. I knew about the density and surface area thing, but now it makes more sense, thank you. I have an idea to create a maze like setting in the center of the tank in an oval shape to create a "racetrack" feel for the tang(s). Well...not my idea, but read it somewhere and it sounded good.

So live rock is more important than live sand? Would 76-100 pounds be okay? I have 150 pounds of PFS in my freshwater tank and it makes about a 2-2.5" deep layer. I agree that bare bottom tanks look unpleasant.

Thanks for the sump and skimmer info. I will definitely make sure the skimmer I get is rated for at least 200 gallons.

That sucks the Banggai won't shoal. I wanted a small school or shoal of something. Are there any damsels or small fish (less than 3") that will get along without conspecifics? I don't much care for the Pajama cardinals and the blues are a little steep in price for 6 of them, but they do look pretty nice.

I was thinking abut corals and I have never enjoyed live plants in my freshwater tanks because I suck at keeping them alive. Corals may have a different feel or they may be the same, so I will probably experiment with corals in a smaller and in the future and if it doesn't work out, I will have another tank ready for fish only.

Someone recommended urchins to me for cleaners and I actually like that idea. But I will still pass on the puffer then. I don't want much aggression. I get enough of it from my freshwater cichlids.

I will pick up a 40 breeder for a QT tank when they next go on the $1/gallon sale at my local Petco. I will just get some fake plants and PVC pipe and add a HOB filter with a skimmer. I figure I can't be too careful as a newbie.

I definitely don't intend to add a Mandarin goby until the tank is at least 6 months old, but will probably wait until its a year just to be safe. I will add some bottles of pods to help boost the tank population so that when I do add a goby, there will be a healthy population available.

 

[Figment]

Bump for more info.

 

[platinumreefer]

mixed bag of info

mixed bag of info

I just wanted to let you know that you are getting some excellent info and some that is less than stellar. If you going to put corals in at some point, then there is some info that will not work for you. It will also make it more difficult to keep even a FOWLR tank. Invest in the RO/DI before anything. While some ppl may be able to just add prime, they probably have really good tap water. You don't want to be adding phosphates and nitrates to the tank since we try so hard to keep them under control. Your tap water may have heavy metals and many other things you don't want in the tank.
There are a lot of great articles on many of the topics at online retailers. Not trying to "push" a store but thought I would start off with this on mixing salt. This site does have most of the questions answered fairly well.http://www.liveaquaria.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=54

Where are you located? Maybe you can hook up with someone from a local club to get hands on info. Many ppl in the trade are more than willing to help.

 

[Figment]

I just wanted to let you know that you are getting some excellent info and some that is less than stellar. If you going to put corals in at some point, then there is some info that will not work for you. It will also make it more difficult to keep even a FOWLR tank. Invest in the RO/DI before anything. While some ppl may be able to just add prime, they probably have really good tap water. You don't want to be adding phosphates and nitrates to the tank since we try so hard to keep them under control. Your tap water may have heavy metals and many other things you don't want in the tank.
There are a lot of great articles on many of the topics at online retailers. Not trying to "push" a store but thought I would start off with this on mixing salt. This site does have most of the questions answered fairly well.http://www.liveaquaria.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=54

Where are you located? Maybe you can hook up with someone from a local club to get hands on info. Many ppl in the trade are more than willing to help.

I live in central Florida near Orlando.

I need to run a more thorough test on my tap water and see how it is with phosphates, nitrate and other info. If need be, I will definitely add an RO/DI unit.

I think I will hold off on corals for now. Get use to a fish only tank and once I am comfortable with its weekly or monthly operational needs, get a smaller tank to experiment with corals and see if its even something I would want to do.

 

[RayL]

People believe in different ideas for QT when it comes to dosing meds. Most of the successful fish keepers I have spoken to always dose, but you have to make that decision yourself.

Not sure about cycling for fresh water but for salt water, I would add the live rock and sand. Test the water every few days too make sure the cycle starts and in total it should take between 3-6 weeks for the cycle to complete. If the cycle hasn't started after two weeks, you will probably have to start it yourself, i have heard of people doing this by adding a shrimp from the grocery store to the tank.

I would recommend against any type of damsel, they are extremely aggressive

 

[OranguTang]

Thanks for all the info.

I have read a lot of the 1 pound per gallon rule. I knew about the density and surface area thing, but now it makes more sense, thank you. I have an idea to create a maze like setting in the center of the tank in an oval shape to create a "racetrack" feel for the tang(s). Well...not my idea, but read it somewhere and it sounded good.

So live rock is more important than live sand? Would 76-100 pounds be okay? I have 150 pounds of PFS in my freshwater tank and it makes about a 2-2.5" deep layer. I agree that bare bottom tanks look unpleasant.

Thanks for the sump and skimmer info. I will definitely make sure the skimmer I get is rated for at least 200 gallons.

That sucks the Banggai won't shoal. I wanted a small school or shoal of something. Are there any damsels or small fish (less than 3") that will get along without conspecifics? I don't much care for the Pajama cardinals and the blues are a little steep in price for 6 of them, but they do look pretty nice.

I was thinking abut corals and I have never enjoyed live plants in my freshwater tanks because I suck at keeping them alive. Corals may have a different feel or they may be the same, so I will probably experiment with corals in a smaller and in the future and if it doesn't work out, I will have another tank ready for fish only.

Someone recommended urchins to me for cleaners and I actually like that idea. But I will still pass on the puffer then. I don't want much aggression. I get enough of it from my freshwater cichlids.

I will pick up a 40 breeder for a QT tank when they next go on the $1/gallon sale at my local Petco. I will just get some fake plants and PVC pipe and add a HOB filter with a skimmer. I figure I can't be too careful as a newbie.

I definitely don't intend to add a Mandarin goby until the tank is at least 6 months old, but will probably wait until its a year just to be safe. I will add some bottles of pods to help boost the tank population so that when I do add a goby, there will be a healthy population available.

Mandarin's eat like pigs, even a well established 5 year old tank would struggle without starving them. You will have to keep a very very sharp eye on your pod population and continue to introduce them as they deplete.

 

[mikem101]

Random info

Random info

I don't want a yellow. Yellow is my least favorite color and I feel like the yellow tangs are in every saltwater tank I have ever seen. LOL

I have looked at the bristle nose and am on the fence about it. I really like the mimic, but its more of a second choice as I would prefer to have a blue hippo or sailfin, but obviously they get too big. If I could fit two tangs in a 125 peacefully by introducing them at the same time, what species would work?

Check out a yellow eye kole, White Tail Bristletooth Tang, Mimic Lemon Peel Tang all, and a Mimic Eibli Tang are awesome tangs, two tangs would be fine in that size tank. Bartlett's Anthias are AWESOME schooling fish, they are very hardy for anthias and dont require a huge tank. Couple other things i was reading. Like someone else posted I dont have a RO/DI system and in 5 years have never had an issue? That being said there is NOTHING wrong with using one they are great investments if you chose to use one. about the cycle using live fish is an old school way to do things just put your rock in and throw in 2 raw shrimp you buy at the store and the tank will cycle fine.

 

[Figment]

Check out a yellow eye kole, White Tail Bristletooth Tang, Mimic Lemon Peel Tang all, and a Mimic Eibli Tang are awesome tangs, two tangs would be fine in that size tank. Bartlett's Anthias are AWESOME schooling fish, they are very hardy for anthias and dont require a huge tank. Couple other things i was reading. Like someone else posted I dont have a RO/DI system and in 5 years have never had an issue? That being said there is NOTHING wrong with using one they are great investments if you chose to use one. about the cycle using live fish is an old school way to do things just put your rock in and throw in 2 raw shrimp you buy at the store and the tank will cycle fine.

I had looked at a lot of anthias because many of them are so beautifully colored. I especially love that they are in groups and the male is clearly identifiable in most species. But every one I read about says they need a "species specific" tank, which I am assuming means they are not recommended to be around other fish because they will gang up on other fish or are easily picked on. Is it just the Bartlett that is okay around other fish or will a school of 5 of any anthias work?

 

[Monkeyfish]

Most Anthias get along fine with other peaceful and semi-aggressive fish. Bartlett's, Carberryi, Dispar and Squampinnis are all good choices. The big thing with anthias is that they usually need to bed 3 to 6 times per day, though I'e foundthe Carberryi and Squampinnis do fine with just 1 or 2 feedings.

These fish don't always hang together in a group, though some species are more likely to than others.

 

[Figment]

Most Anthias get along fine with other peaceful and semi-aggressive fish. Bartlett's, Carberryi, Dispar and Squampinnis are all good choices. The big thing with anthias is that they usually need to bed 3 to 6 times per day, though I'e foundthe Carberryi and Squampinnis do fine with just 1 or 2 feedings.

These fish don't always hang together in a group, though some species are more likely to than others.

I have a set stock list of 1-2 tangs (torn between one powder blue or two small tangs), a raccoon butterfly, a flame angel and two mandarin dragonettes. This stock are my must haves. Everything else is debatable. I have thought about switching the flame angel for a Lamarck's angel, which I read are pretty mellow for an angel.

So with the above stock list, what would work best if I want a schooling or at least shoaling fish? Lemon chromis, yellowtail damsels, or anthias (I really like squarebacks, carberryi, ignitus, and lyretails)? I know most of the anthias get bigger and will thus reduce what else I can stock, but like I said, I don't really have anything else that is a must have fish.

So other stock thoughts I have are two clownfish (Clarkii or Ocellaris), a two line monocle bream, a long nose hawkfish, and a wrasse (I like several species). I don't have anything more than that for ideas though.

I know I am getting into stock ideas early since I won't even have a tank setup for them for another 6-8 months, but I figure if I can get a stock list down, I can have a much better idea how to setup the tank to properly meet all the needs of all the fish.

 

[RayL]

As for the schooling fish, the damsels and chromis I would recommend skipping, go with a type of anthias. They are beautiful fish and are very peaceful