A few tips please

[dcombs44]

I'm working on stocking a 10 gallon zoanthid only setup.

The system is as follows:

10 gallon Display
10 gallon sump/fuge
175 Watt MH Mogul Lamp (Hamilton 14,000K)
Mag Drive 700 Return
Phosban Reactor filled with Carbon (Changed monthly)
Filter sock on drain hose for mechanical filtration (Changed twice per week)

Parameters:

Temperature: Ranges 79.5 - 80.5
Salinity: 1.026 SG
pH: 7.8
NH3/NH4: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
Ca: 420
dkH: 8.9
Mg: Not yet tested

The tank is about 2.5 to 3 months old. Cycled with dead rock from an old tank that I tore down, and table shrimp. Currently, the only thing in the tank is 10 zoanthid/paly frags and I picked up myself.

The tank's temperature is controlled by a ReefKeeper Lite, which triggers a computer fan at 81 degrees, kills the lights at 84, and adds a second thermostat to the heater, which is set at 79 degrees.

I added the frags 1.5 weeks ago, and I'm making my first water change this evening. The water has been aerating and mixing since this morning. i will bring the temperature up and test pH before changing.

Here are a few questions that I have:

1) I haven't been feeding the tank since the zoanthids are photosynthetic. Would it benefit me to "dirty" up the water and/or spot feed the zoanthids? If so, what's their preferred food?

2) The metal halide bulb is probably a bit old. I plan to swap it for an Iwasaki 15,000K bulb in the next week. I've read that the PAR on these bulbs blows all other 175 watt bulbs away. I'm guessing I'm going to have to reacclimate these guys to this new bulb right?

3) Currently, the only flow in the tank is the return (Mag 700). It's turning and moving the water pretty good. I have some maxi mods and old powerheads that I've tried to incorporate into the tank, but they are too big for the tank and blow water all over everything. Would I benefit from something like a Koralia Nano that has less direct flow, or do you think the Mag 700 will suffice? At the moment, there is zero trace of algae in the tank, but as I start feeding and adding livestock, nutrients may become more of an issue, and I fear the excess flow will be needed to avoid dead spots.

Any general tips for helping a zoanthid only tank of this size thrive? When I acclimated the frags, I inspected each one individually for pests (nudis, worms, eggs, snails, etc.) I've read various posts about dipping every new frag in Iodine and/or Flatworm Exit. How do you all feel about this? Necessary, unnecessary?

Thanks!

 

[dcombs44]

Bump.........Just once I promise.

 

[scuba guy ron]

sounds like your on track. I dont think you need to feed the tank to "dirty up the water". IMO the higher the k rating on the bulb the slower the growth. then again thats a whole lotta light for a 10 gal.

 

[dalston]

Hi, you have a very well thought out plan and I'll help according to my opinion/experience.

1. You use the term 'dirty up' which I hear all too often when it comes to keeping zoanthus. The myth is zoanthids and palythoas 'like' dirty water. There is some confusion as many people believe they thrive with excess nitrates, they will tolerate excess nitrates just fine but don't thrive IME. In reality, they actually prefer a more nutrient rich water cloumn. Nitrates and nutrients are not the same thing, nitrates being dissolved waste, and nutrients being trace elements/good bacteria. I have always kept zoas in tanks with the goal being 0 nitrtaes (just as SPS demands). As for feeding, many larger zoanthids such as gigantus, protopalythoa, and parazoanthus will accept small meaty foods such as mysis, but many small indo polyps won't. To be honest, in a tank your size with limited space, I would just get by with good lighting, strong indirect flow, and regular water changes. If you decide on a small fish down the road, they will catch and consume the scraps anyways.

2. You are correct in saying you should acclimate your polyps to the new lamp. I do even if I am replacing mine with the same exact bulb. A newer bulb will always be more intense than an old worn one. Zoanthus will tolerate the highest of lighting if acclimated slowly. I like to use egg crate with a few sheets of black window screening on top, removing a layer every few days or so.

3. Flow is one of the most overlooked aspects when it comes to zoa's IMO. I have learn t that they thrive under a good strong INDIRECT flow. Adding a koralia nano would be a good idea as they flow is very dispersed.

As for dipping - I feel it is the MOST important thing you can do for your tank when adding anything new. My routine is to thoroughly inspect each new addition all over, then a short dip in a strong iodine solution (lugols), then if available, QT! IMO, without dipping, you are risking everything in your tank. It only takes one small frag to have a egg sack/nudi ect and your in for a long painful battle.

 

[dcombs44]

Thanks for the input.

To be honest, I didn't dip or QT these frags because honestly, they will probably be the only corals in the tank (at least for some time), and they all came from the same tank. I did, visually inspect them all, shake them all out in tank water, and turkey baste them to try and rid of any unwanteds, prior to adding them.

Provided that these frags thrive and grow, any new addition will see a month in QT before seeing the display. I'll probably go ahead and add the koralia to my upcoming order. I'm also planning to order a Mg supplement from ESV and a test kit. I know that I won't have much calcium demand, but I plan to dose 2 part to keep my dkH in line to help avoid pH swings and such. I figure stability is my biggest enemy with this setup, which is why I decided to spring for the Reef Keeper. I would've loved to set up the 125 gallon that's sitting empty in the garage, but I don't have the room or funds, so I opted for something that I had most of the pieces for already. It's turning out to be a fun project, that has been relatively stress free thus far. Easy and quick maintenance.

 

[dcombs44]

Here's are a few subpar pics of my frags and my setup. Pardon the mess. The stand isn't quite finished, and I'm still working on implementing all of my gadgets. We moved into a smaller house close to family about 10 months ago, so I tore down my larger tank, and I'm still digging for some of the things I need

 

[dalston]

No problem.

Just to add, if there is one thing I would recommend in ways of equipment it would be an ATO of some sort. I have a 12 gallon with a 150W halide and the evap is immense (especially as I have a desk fan pointing at the waters surface).

 

[dcombs44]

 

[dalston]

I like that last picture, it looks like a line of soldiers waiting for battle on your soon to be reef

 

[dcombs44]

No problem.

Just to add, if there is one thing I would recommend in ways of equipment it would be an ATO of some sort. I have a 12 gallon with a 150W halide and the evap is immense (especially as I have a desk fan pointing at the waters surface).

Yeah, I've got one that I DIY'd on my old tank. I actually pulled it all out the other night, but I've got to mod it a bit to get it to fit my new sump properly. You can see the mess of it laying on the floor in the second tank pic. I've been able to avoid some evaporation as the tank is in the basement, and my fan is on a controller, so it doesn't run all the time. I still think I'm going to run the ATO though for stability's sake.

I like that last picture, it looks like a line of soldiers waiting for battle on your soon to be reef

That's my hope. I've kept zoas before, just never exclusively, and I'm hoping that this tank is pretty eye pleasing when it grows out.

Thanks again.

 

[Falcao]

nice looking setup

 

[dcombs44]

nice looking setup

Thank you. As I get more comfortable with maintaining it and making sure things are in order, I'll work on putting the doors on the stand, hiding wires, and cleaning up the look of it.

At the moment, it's just functional.

 

[blasterman789]

There is some confusion as many people believe they thrive with excess nitrates

What confusion is that? Zoa growth in my tanks with no bioload (fish)is almost non-existant. Zoa growth in my tanks with a little bio-load and zero detectable nitrate (being consumed) is better. Zoa growth in my tanks with about 10ppm nitrate (surplus) is orders of magnitude faster than no nitrate. Pretty much every zoa addict I know confirms this. Most of the complaints I hear about zoa conlonies melting come from tanks running SPS parameters.

If dcombs44 doesn't have fish in his tank he's got two problems: First, the tank is no longer cycled because without ammonia being constantly added to the tank the nitrifiying bacteria will wither and die because they have no food. This isn't that big an issue if he decides to keep it this way.

Next, with no bioload, zoa growth will stagnate, and I'll put money on it. Dcombs44 will run it this way for a few months, and get little or no growth, and be scratching his head.

Also, the 175watt is way too much for that tank, but it's high up over the tank so dcombs44 was on to this - good thinking. My first suggestion is LED because small lights are tough to find for 10gals.

 

[dcombs44]

What confusion is that? Zoa growth in my tanks with no bioload (fish)is almost non-existant. Zoa growth in my tanks with a little bio-load and zero detectable nitrate (being consumed) is better. Zoa growth in my tanks with about 10ppm nitrate (surplus) is orders of magnitude faster than no nitrate. Pretty much every zoa addict I know confirms this. Most of the complaints I hear about zoa conlonies melting come from tanks running SPS parameters.

If dcombs44 doesn't have fish in his tank he's got two problems: First, the tank is no longer cycled because without ammonia being constantly added to the tank the nitrifiying bacteria will wither and die because they have no food. This isn't that big an issue if he decides to keep it this way.

Next, with no bioload, zoa growth will stagnate, and I'll put money on it. Dcombs44 will run it this way for a few months, and get little or no growth, and be scratching his head.

Also, the 175watt is way too much for that tank, but it's high up over the tank so dcombs44 was on to this - good thinking. My first suggestion is LED because small lights are tough to find for 10gals.

The cycle is still active. I had shadow fed the cycle up to the point of adding the frags with chunks of shrimp, and continue to periodically do so. Even while the shrimp was gross and mangled looking, there was no sign of ammonia or nitrate.

Second, I used the metal halide because I already had it. I was just using leftovers from other tanks to build this setup.

Not contradicting you, but photosynthetic corals derive energy from the zooxanthellae living within. If they are receiving fuel, then they have to produce a biproduct that will help the cycle go. Maybe not as strong of a cycle as a tank with a high bioload, but it won't be killed completely off. I have read that growth will be fueled by adding food, which I will do when I add a clean up crew and fish to deal with the leftovers from feeding, but I have also read that people sustain wonderful zoa colonies in nutrient poor systems.

Also, many zoanthids are found in shallows and in tide pools where they are blasted by sun. Provided that the corals are properly acclimated to metal halide, I have a hard time believing that the light itself is too intense. The only reason I raised it up was to help curve heat issues from the halides. Also, T5 fixtures are pretty common in sizes to fit a 10 gallon tank. I almost bought a pair when deciding how to light this tank, but decided to save money and go with what I had.

I appreciate your comments.

 

[dcombs44]

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13822+16770&pcatid=16770

Just providing support for my statement regarding lights for 10 gallons. For the record, they are 20" long. DFS sells an 18" fixture.

 

[dcombs44]

Further support regarding suggested lighting.....

Lighting: Many of the species of zoanthids kept by aquarists are hermatypic, living with endosymbiotic zooxanthellae within their tissue. These forms appreciate moderate to intense lighting; either metal halide or shallow placement in settings with adequate full-spectrum fluorescents.

From: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthid.htm

Wet Web Media is one of the more renown reefkeeping sites on the web.

But, from the same article.........They do recommend supplemental feeding.

Foods/Feeding:

Even the "green" zoanthids with internal algae helping them make their food require supplemental feeding. Most successful reefers feed their zoanthids every day or two with either a mash of small zooplankters blown over the animals with a turkey baster or some solid, meaty foodstuff placed on the polyps. It’s best to subdue circulation at this time; done practically with a timer.

 

[dalston]

What confusion is that? Zoa growth in my tanks with no bioload (fish)is almost non-existant. Zoa growth in my tanks with a little bio-load and zero detectable nitrate (being consumed) is better. Zoa growth in my tanks with about 10ppm nitrate (surplus) is orders of magnitude faster than no nitrate. Pretty much every zoa addict I know confirms this. Most of the complaints I hear about zoa conlonies melting come from tanks running SPS parameters.

If dcombs44 doesn't have fish in his tank he's got two problems: First, the tank is no longer cycled because without ammonia being constantly added to the tank the nitrifiying bacteria will wither and die because they have no food. This isn't that big an issue if he decides to keep it this way.

Next, with no bioload, zoa growth will stagnate, and I'll put money on it. Dcombs44 will run it this way for a few months, and get little or no growth, and be scratching his head.

Also, the 175watt is way too much for that tank, but it's high up over the tank so dcombs44 was on to this - good thinking. My first suggestion is LED because small lights are tough to find for 10gals.

The confusion I'm talking about is that the term 'dirty water' is being used more commonly instead of saying high 'nutrients'. Most people see dirty water as being high in ammonia/phosphate/nitrate.
I don't want to get into a debate on this in this thread but I ran my 12 gallon (with 150W DE halide) without a single fish for 2 years. The tank was mainly zoanthids and SPS and my growth rate was far from 'stagnant' on both counts. Nitrate is not beneficial for any corals IMO and the goal for me is; and will be that magic 0.

This older quote from flyyyguy sums it up best for me

High nutrient isnt quite so much the goal as nutrient rich. Synonymic maybe, but high nutrient sounds too much like "dirty tank" to me, and the fact that zoas like dirty water is one of those myths that is repeated far too often

feed the tank and get it out before it rots is the name of the game. Thats not just for zoanthids, the same can be said of sps and most corals.

They do not prefer water that is high in P and N. They can tolerate it more than some, but just becasue it doesnt kill them doesnt mean they like it or will do better in it than perfect water parameters

 

[geoxman]

Dustin,
get a bigger fan than that computer fan. Let me know if you need help
PL

 

[dcombs44]

Dustin,
get a bigger fan than that computer fan. Let me know if you need help
PL

Second person that's called me Dustin on a reef forum in 2 days......Unfortunately, that's not my name.

Why would I need a bigger fan when this one never even has to run to hold temperature? Lots of people use computer fans to cool their tanks.