A medium tank guy with a question for the big tank guys-Upgrade plans

fender4string

fender4string

New member
Hello big tank forum!

I'm new to the hobby and have just set up my first tank-an 85 gallon FOWLR with a 30 gallon sump. Nothing compared to the awesome setups that you guys have!

So here's my question (or set of questions). I'm going to want to do an upgrade somwhere down the line here so that I can keep bigger fish and want to have a tank in the 6-8 foot range (180 gallons minimum size).

What should I know about planning for a big tank?

What types of equipment will I need (multiple pumps, multiple skimmers, anything specific to big tanks)?

How on earth do you guys take care of maintanance tasks such as water changes? I can't imagine doing a 20 gallon water change by hand every week! In other words-do you guys use equipment for automated water changes and top-offs? If so what kinds of things will I need?

How do you guys store water? Just lots of Brute trash cans?

Anything else you think I should know would be very helpful! Also, the large tank will be a FOWLR.

Thanks!
 
Best advice is to read the build threads and spend ALOT of time planning your tank. When you go big everything has to be either semi, or fully automated or you'll go insane.

For instance the water change thing. Most of us have a water change station built. I have a 75 gallon Tamco tank above a 55 Gallon Tamco tank. The 75 gal is the fresh (ro/di) reservoir. The 55 Gallon is the mix tank. The fresh tank has the Ro/di hooked to it directly with an automated (2 float) shutoff for the ro/di. It has a bulkhead that gravity feeds the mix tank.

The mix tank has its own heater, and a mag 12 to mix the water, plus the valves and plumbing to also transfer it to the sump, to the fuge, the frag, or the quarantine tanks, depending on how the valves are set. All I have to do is set the valves, tell the aquacontroller 3 pro to start, and it does a water change wherever I like. If I had to do it by hand I'd go nuts. If I have the valves pre-set I can actually do a water change remote through my phone.
 
I won't attempt to answer all those questions...but I'll point you in a good direction.

Spend time looking at all these build threads on RC, you'll find the decisions other's have made and then go your own way.

You are wise to consider maintenance. I think it is the most critical thing to consider. As you build everything, think "how am I going to maintain/replace/fix/clean this?" Common tools for this are things like light racks/movers, automated water changes, and catwalks.

Here's how I did things. Not necessary the only way, just the way I did it. First 10pgs are the meat of the build.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28436

Hope that helps.
 
Wow sounds fairly technical. My system is really bare bones-it's pretty much just the basics. The only thing I have that's automated are light timers lol.

I'll definitely read through the build threads. Right now this is in the semi-distant future, a few years from now, but I had some idea that it would be much more complicated to run a large system than a little one.

Would you mind going into a little more detail about your system in terms of equipment?

Also, what's the approximate cost of running your tank?
 
A well planned out system will reduce your maintenance cost and time spent. There is plenty of info here about equipment, equpment cost, and vendors for equipment and livestock. The more homework you do the better off you will be. There are calculators to help you figure out electrical usage and cost. Aside from electricity, you'll need to know how much you will need to spend per year on salt, light bulbs, reactor media, RO/DI refills, etc. Also plan for euipment failures. If your return pump fails, you have no choice but to get a new one.

Personaly, this is my hobby and I enjoy the time I put into it. Wether I'm disassembling a pump for cleaning, adjusting the placement of a coral, or contiued education on the latest reefing info. I love it all!!
 
Thanks Ken-positive outlook!

I'm new to the hobby but I've been hooked hard :). I've got some time before I'll have to upgrade (I'll be getting a picasso trigger in the next few months and it'll outgrow my 85 in a few years) so I figured I'd just start asking around and getting some basic ideas as to what the veteran large tank keepers do for their setups.

I'll probably try and hook up with some local guys with big tanks to see how they run in person. When it comes to tech stuff I learn best in simple step-by-step directions/advice and by seeing it.

I guess if anyone feels so inclined to take the time would you give me a "road map" of your system. This would probably be most helpful to me in getting a good overview of how your tanks are set up.

Ex: my system "map" would be something like this

1. Overflow to durso stand pipe
2. 1" drain that splits at a T to fuge and skimmer section(flow controlled by ball valves on each branch)
3. Water from fuge and skimmer to return section
4. 3/4" return back to tank via Quiet One 4000

Like I said my system is really simple and I imagine that your systems are interspersed with a lot more equipment.

With that info I should have a better idea of what to start looking around at.

Thanks alot-any input is appreciated.
 
The info you're looking for would take pages and pages. There's also no "set " way to do things. Try to find out what others have done. Feel free to ask people if they're happy with the way they set up their tanks. Don't always copy the first few pages of a build thread. A lot of times people change their designs after they find things aren't working out the way they hoped. Be prepared to spend THOUSANDS lol. Also, plan for a reef. It's much easier to set up a fowlr with a reef in mind than it is to convert a fowlr to a reef after the fact. You'll find that most people eventually get bored with fowlr's and switch to a reef. I suggest spending several months reading through reef central. There's a ridiculous amount of info on here. There's also a lot of opinions, some of which are outdated or flat out wrong. You'll need time to sort through it all.
 
What I recommend to local "large tank newbies" is to go and see some large setups and take a camera. Ask lots of questions, take lots of pictures, and figure out what you like and don't like about each system. In our area we have the Tampa Bay Reef Club, with quite a few large systems, and quite a few very experienced and knowledgeable reefers.

Are you a member of a local reef club?
 
Ok thank you guys for the info. I'll just keep perusing. It took me at least 4 months to even figure out the stuff I needed to know for my little tank and I'm still learning new stuff all the time.

TheChad-thanks for the tip about planning for a reef. That's something I'll have to consider as I had actually planned on converting my current 85 into a reef after the upgrade. That way I figure I can save some money on the big tank by not needing halides, reactors, and such (even though all of those savings will probably be spent on the smaller reef tank lol).

mflamb-I'm part of the local club on here and am also on a local reefing forum. I'll have to contact some guys on there who have larger tanks.
 
So let's narrow this down a little bit as I'm aware I did ask for a lot.

The part that most confuses me is the automated parts of the system (especially for water changes and top-offs). Can you guys give me some general info on that? How it works, what's required and such?

Again thanks in advance for all help. Hopefully this is a question that can be answered in more concise form and in this thread. If it's still a big question-I'm a noob so go easy :D.
 
thanks for the link Untamed-i started reading through it and another question occurs to me (don't worry I won't try and get all my info from this thread :D). Do big tanks have to be run with closed loops or can they be run with the more common (or so it seems to me) drain to sump to pump to tank (though I'm sure it's more complicated than that)?

In starting this thread I'm starting to see how extremely clueless I am lol. I definitely have to start looking through this forum. Thanks for the patience guys this'll be the last question for now!
 
There isn't anything particular about large tanks that requires closed loop systems. Closed loop is just another way to create water movement/flow. You could do a closed loop on a small system as well. People also used powerheads and waveboxes for the same purpose.

None of that has anything to do with the sump.
 
Oh I was under the impression that closed loops didn't have a sump though that doesn't really make sense now that I think about it-thanks for the clarification.

Thanks for the link mflamb.
 
A basic water change set up consists of an RO/DI water filter. A freshwater holding container conected to the RO/DI via a float valve. A saltwater holding and mixing container with a heater and a pump for circulation. Then a system of piping and valves connected to a pump to move all the water around without breaking your back. I use a clear hose to pump saltwater around. My mixing station is too far from my tank to have a dedicated PVC line plumbed to it.
 
thanks thechad. How is the RO/DI controlled by the float valve? The way I have my RO/DI hooked up is with a simple garden hose adapter to our laundry room sink. Does the RO/DI have to be plumbed in-line in order to do this?
 
fender: You were correct in the assumption that closed loops don't have a sump. They pull water out of the tank and put it back in, nothing else. It's a good way of reducing clutter within the main tank, no pumps inside, while not using any head pressure as you would with the return from your sump. Both of these have a place in a large reef tank, but rely on a closed loop more heavily for flow, and try to push 5-10x/hour total tank volume through the sump system. Push the remainder through a closed loop or some type of internal propeller pump like a vortech, seio, koralia, rio polario, tunze, etc..

Also, the float valve on a RO mix tank is similar to the float switch you would find in the back of your toilet. It just shuts your water off when the tank is full, usually via solenoid valve, at least that's how I've seen it done. I don't think it matters much how the water is fed to the unit, in-line, or faucet adapter.
 
ok thanks. I appreciate the double clarification on the closed loop :). So far this has been helpful guys-I'm already less confused about this one part of large tanks.

I appreciate all the info.
 
but I had some idea that it would be much more complicated to run a large system than a little one.

it doesn't need to be. the fascination with bright shiny objects and wondrous engineering is strong in this forum. not to imply that i'm an exception. just keepin it real..
 
lol yeah I've noticed. The big tanks I've seen impress me enormously both because of the high caliber livestock you guys here on RC choose and also the ridiculous amount of crazy NASA quality technology....ok maybe not quite that advanced :rolleye1:

The livestock I understand-I'm just not tech savvy lol :D. I figured I'd better dive in now as I guarantee most of this stuff will be over my head for awhile.

Plus this is a hobby where the more information I get the more addicting it is, which leads to wanting more info...and the cycle goes on :rollface:
 
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