Advice from some of you larger reef maintaners..

r00onmac

r00onmac

DVM in training
So as i read more and more forums here on RC and read more and more about peoples problems i find that the majority of coral issues are caused by Alk, Ca, Mg, PO4, etc...

with my current tank (a 5.5 gallon) i change about 30%-50% every week or two, not very religiously, not an exact science... but i ASSUME it keeps my levels in check... my zoas took off after a month or two in my tank, my xenia is slowly taking over rock after rock... my torch is clearly recovering from being "burned" by my halides... and my new corals i got at the swap look great - except the monti undata...


being my first sps, i started reading up and i read that minimal levels of PO4 can cause disastrous growth problems in any and all SPS...


inform me please:

with this upgrade to a tank with an overall water volume of about 45 gallons i will officially be out of the nano category... i wont be able to solve all my problems with water changes and i think i am in some trouble... i have about two weeks to learn as much as i can about what i need to do to maintain levels like Alk, Ca, Mg, PO4 with things other than water changes...

i expect no problems with the basics - i have plenty of rock to deal with the nitrogen cycle... but these other elements scare the hell out of me...

i need to get salifert kits for Alk, Ca, Mg, PO4 and learn how to use them - that much i know...

but if these levels are off what is the best way to maintain them? i know this is a loaded question but id like to know what works for you guys...

as far as additives go i have nano reef part A and B that i dose occasionally into my nano... and i have been dosing my cycling tank with recommended doses of Purple Up to encourage some coraline growth on the super white dry rock that i bought at the swap...


HELP ME PLEASE! thank you in advance for EVERYTHING
 
The best way to keep your Mg, Ca, and Alk up in your situation is to use your test kits and add two part (three part including Mg) to your tank when needed. Phosphate can be limited by controlling what food you put in the tank and how much you skim / do water changes. If you do that I think it will be a good start for you.
 
Hi,regular water changes alone(assuming you are using good quality RO/DI)will do much to keep the tank in balance,by adding essential elements & removing phosphares etc.If you are going to get into SPS,clams etc then you may find that your calcium levels are low, due to the increased demand.I use & highly recommend,limewater to counter this issue.It will boost calcium levels,while keeping alkalinity in balance.At the same time it will help removes phosphates by pulling them out of solution.That is the only additive that goes into my tank,in the form of all my top off water.I would try & stay away from additives as much as possible,unless you are going to test for a specific item.Using additives,without knowing if your tank is lacking or actually over loaded with a certain compound could cause you a lot of headaches.Basically,if you don't test for it,don't add it to your tank.Hope this makes sense & it's just what I've found over the years works for me.Regards Darcy.
 
Re: Advice from some of you larger reef maintaners..

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7865419#post7865419 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by r00onmac

being my first sps, i started reading up and i read that minimal levels of PO4 can cause disastrous growth problems in any and all SPS...
Click to expand...

i highly doubt this pertains to you. this is a problem in a absolutely prestine bare bottom setup, with minimal feedings along with a huge skimmer.
if you have a sand bed, it is unlikely you will need to worry about this.

also, get those test kits before you start dosing blindly.
you can either dose a 2 part system, or go with a kalk/limewater setup. if you get into sps, regular water changes wont be enough.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7866507#post7866507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by r00onmac
but what would i use to add alk, ca, mg... ?
Click to expand...

A good two part such as ocean's blend. I prefer to make my own Magnesium additive with MgCl. In the beginning you will not need to use much at all. Kalk is another additive some have brought up that will work just fine also. As your Calcium demand grows (with your sps collection) then you will need to start adding more 2 part. There are many opinions out there, but I would suggest moving away from kalk only if your calcium demand grows fairly high. With a two part you will not be able to control your calcium and alkalinity inpependantly, which can be very important in an sps tank.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7866814#post7866814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisaggie
With a two part you will not be able to control your calcium and alkalinity inpependantly, which can be very important in an sps tank.
Click to expand...

OOPS! I meant to say "With kalk you will not be able to control your calcium and alkalinity independently, which can be very important in an sps tank."
 
well i dont plan on going crazy with sps... if this undata grows like i want it to (plating like a cap would) then i expect it will be my only SPS until i buy a tabling acro (another type of SPS im a fan of) so i suppose that a Kalk solution would work...

so, correct me if i am wrong... but kalk is like a powder that i can mix into my top off water and as it drips in it also doses the tank, correct? where could i find kalk?

i will get the test kits asap... and like i said the only reason im dosing purple up is because i want to encourage coraline on the rocks...100% of the water that is currently being used for the cycle will be changed when i setup the new tank after my move so i wouldnt worry too much about overdosing right now..
 
You can get kalk at any decent LFS. Yes, you can just add it with your top off water. Be cautious about the kalk clogging your top off float though.
 
I am big believer of water changes, especially NSW if you have a good source.
You shouldn't do any other additions until you understand your tank requirements, you do this by doing regular water tests with a good reliable kit, if possible try to document the results of this tests before water change after water changes and sometime in between water changes this should give you a good idea of what you will need to add if anything, if you stick to water changes and your bio-load is not huge, you may be able to get away with just that, if you see that you are having a problems anything then I suggest you try to understand the root cause of the problem prior to trying to fix it, IME it is very common to screw something else in the process of trying to correct something.
This article is a very good DIY 2 part, read it, understand it, and use it, you will find also some interactive calculators.
Good Luck,

Rogger
 
Look on the main fourm page. Go into the chemistry section and it is a sticky. You should do some research.

For aprox. 40gs and 1 SPS, i wouldn't worry too much about it sucking all the calcium out of your water. Just do about a 5-10g waterchange to replemish the calcium as well as the other chemicals.

My tank has aprox. 40gs as well after the LR and LS, so doing a 5g waterchange for me will be just fine. I have yet to step into SPS, but when I see coraline then I might consider it.

Its been a good 6+ months and I've yet to see real coraline alge grow on my rocks, but then again I barly did waterchanges till now and learned one important thing. Since I am mixing my own SW, IO is low on calcium as I have tested a few times (lower then my tank). When doing a waterchange and the new SW calcium level is lower, it can then lower the calcium level in your tank. Then, if your using just freshwater to top off, this can lower the calcium level, pH, alk and so on. Using kalkwasser to top off would be the ideal way to correct any of these problems... THATS IF THE TANK IS ALREADY STABLIZED. Kalkwasser is a stablized form of additive when it comes to calcium, alk., and pH.

If I am wrong or off on anything I say, someone please correct me. I need to learn too. lol... sleepless nights.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7871246#post7871246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ek9vboi
Then, if your using just freshwater to top off, this can lower the calcium level, pH, alk and so on.

Kalkwasser is a stablized form of additive when it comes to calcium, alk., and pH.
Click to expand...

Levels of calcium and alkalinity will naturally fall in a tank, but using RO/DI water for top off will cause them to fall lower than they normally would.
I am not 100% sure what you mean my your second statement, but kalkwasser has a very high pH, and will raise the pH of your tank.
 
so if i setup a bucket with some RO/DI and kalkwasser that would supplement some of these levels... but it cant be 100% of my top off water, right? or can it?
 
yep,I use kalk as all my top off water.Just add it slowly,so that you don't cause any large PH swings.When you first use it,I would mix a very weak solution & just see how your PH reacts.Don't get too hung up on always trying to get your tank to have perfect readings-if you can great,but you'll have a lot less stress if you shoot for stability.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7872146#post7872146 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisaggie
Levels of calcium and alkalinity will naturally fall in a tank, but using RO/DI water for top off will cause them to fall lower than they normally would.
I am not 100% sure what you mean my your second statement, but kalkwasser has a very high pH, and will raise the pH of your tank.
Click to expand...

You are correct about the SW in the tank falling, basically you made it more clear by the way you explained it Chris.

What I meant was that Kalkwasser comes as a balanced form of chemical to be used.
 
The thing with setting up a bucket with RO/DI water and Kalkwasser mix is that it is exposed to air. From what I was told it is bad because the molecules or whatever it is does something. You would have to do research on that. Plus the Kalkwasser tends to settle after a while, thus the water you are using as top off is nothing but once again pure water. With that in mind, you should be making a mix for everyday. Mix it 1 day ahead would be a good idea.

Do this, set up your tank and figure out how much water you lose in a day. After you know this, mix accordingly to how much u lose per day and drip that rate within a 24hr. You should have the top off/kalkwasser sealed in a 1g container, much like the ones u can get at publix or w/e. Whatever residue that is left over after using the 1g container for the 24hr span, dump it and make a new batch. Dripping it 24hr will help stablized the tank's pH.

Like Darcy said, don't try to set your tank's readings perfect. It takes time to correct something because if you decide that your calcium is too low and add a ton of calcium booster or w/e it can often drop your alk levels down or the opposite.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7874817#post7874817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ek9vboi
The thing with setting up a bucket with RO/DI water and Kalkwasser mix is that it is exposed to air. From what I was told it is bad because the molecules or whatever it is does something. You would have to do research on that. Plus the Kalkwasser tends to settle after a while, thus the water you are using as top off is nothing but once again pure water. With that in mind, you should be making a mix for everyday. Mix it 1 day ahead would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

This is not exactly accurate, let me try to correct, there was a misconception that kalkwasser mix would go bad with air contact, this is true but in a very small way not enough to be concern or change it if you are mixing it in a bucket.
Kalkwasser will settle leaving a clear liquid on top, this clear liquid is what you want to dose your tank, the cool thing about this system is that it is almost fool proof since kalk powder will not dissolve anymore once the water reaches saturation levels which you can easily measure with a ph meter, fully saturated kalwasser has a ph of 12, once this is reached there will be no more dissolving, this is why you can fill large qty’s of kalkwasser into a reactor and slowly use it over a period of a month or two.
I use a kalk reactor in my set-up and find it to be a very good bang for your money, it is relatively inexpensive, the kalkmix I buy at the supermarket for $2/lb and there is almost no electric consumption generated by the reactor.
Here are some nice articles on the other benefits of using kalkwasser.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/chem.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
 
well i checked my ALK yesterday along with the ammonia and nitrate to see how the cycle is going on the new tank...

ALk was on the high end of "normal" (unfortunately my test kit doesnt give me numbered read outs, just a color scale of low, normal, high)

Ammonia was .25 which is good and means that the bacteria are multiplying plenty enough to eat that shrimp i put in there about 4 days ago

NitrAte was off the scale so 50+ ppm - but that is to be expected with having a shrimp in there for 4 days...

Ca, Mg etc i havent been able to get a test kit for and i doubt i will until september or so...
 
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