Advice on tank set up

A

Angela Short

New member
I am ordering a new tank from glasscages this week because the one I have sitting in my garage will no longer work. My father built the canopy with a brace along the compleat span of the back rim and I can't do a closed loop over the back wall with U-tubes like I had planned :( I would have no way of taking the top off.

I have no idea how to have it drilled for a CL. I like MDwannabe's commming up and under the rock blowing front to back side to side... I wonder if there are any unforseen problems to drilling all my holes in the bottom so I can hug the wall tighter with the tank? I can hide the plumming going to the higher returns easy enouph with rock. Comments?

I am looking at the Ocean motions and the 4 way isn't much cheaper than the 8 way but is that total overkill? Should I even fool with the OM's and just do 2 SCWDs alterating. I already have 1 laying around not in use. So $40 more or $400 Hmm, that almost answers my own question! :lol: I wonder if the OM's are that "needed" for just a average reefer like me...

I am seriously concidering ordering a 30" tall 7' instead of the 24". I plan on running a pretty DSB so I would be almost the same as a 24" Bare bottom as far as light to the bottom is concered. I have 2 175's and 2 250's I plan on running. If I do this I would need a bigger skimmer, mine seems to break every time I look at it anyways. That would make the total highth of this tank deal like 6'6" tall in a 8' high room. Is this total overkill? I figure if I have to get a ladder anyways to service the tank why not have a nice viewing area!


Any advise and insight would be appreciated. I also need a good sump/fuge design I hopefully can DYI myself from a 55 with glass panels from a glass store. I have surfed as much as my 3 kids will let me and don't seem to see anything that fits my bill.

Thanks in advance!! I know, long posted like I am long winded!! :)
 
No he puts things together with biscuts (?) and glues all joints and he is 4 hrs away. This is why I was not standing over him while he made it.

BTY Welcome to RC and MTRC!!
 
Angela, I would not drill holes in the bottom. It just seems like way too much of a risk to me. Drill the holes toward the top or run the suction side over the top of the tank and prime the pump. Just make sure that you get a pump rated to run at the NPSH (net positive suction head) you plan on plumning it.
 
Never thought about it weakening the tank bottom. I saw quite a few with holes on the bottom on OM's sight but probably not 8... I have 2 in the floor of my 80 I may go with a OM 4 or just the 2 SCWDs and only have 4 in the bottom. I don't think that will be to many in a 7' span. I just want to hug the wall as much as possiable the way the tank sits in the room.
 
The risk isn't really weakening the bottom, but having a bulhead outside an overflow. If the bulkhead leaks, the entire tank gets drained.
 
could you not have the returns drilled in the back? Instead of having them come over the top just choose in the tank where you want them and have them drilled there. For the returns on the botton of the tank you could drill hole sin the back of the tank and have the PVC run down the back onto the bottom spraying towards the rock. Kinda hard to explain hope I didint lose you on that one. Oh and I plan on coming by on my way home from work to give you your test kit back and I have that light you wanted to borrow.
 
Angela,

In my opinion, DSB is not the way to go. I ahve heard too many horrow stories about then turing into a ticking time bomb and then failing. 1 to 2 inches is all you really need. unless you are able to somehow turn the sand entirely from top to bottom, you will get areas that wont get any sort of turnover or oxygenation and this can cause failure. I have also lost an entire tank to a DSB disaster.
 
Thanks for the reply pickman but I am pretty sold on a DSB. I like the look and the fact you do not have to vacume them. One properly set up with the right fauna will turn it over for you as long as you stay away from critters that eat your sand fauna. Anything that says sand sifting other than cukes are looking to eat the good stuff. I already have a pretty nice variety in my sand but plan on ordering more sand or recharge kits with adding a new sand bed. You have to seed a DSB with true live sand or a sand recharge kit and not rely on your Live rock to do it. The same critters who live in LR are not the same ones you need for a DSB to work properly. Just another way we all differ in reefing ;) And if I change my mind we plan on moving in the next 2-3 years long before it would give me any troubles if it wasn't functioning.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7616574#post7616574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angela Short
And if I change my mind we plan on moving in the next 2-3 years long before it would give me any troubles if it wasn't functioning.
Click to expand...

Darn Angela, you don't have to move if you change your mind, you can just siphon it back out. :lol:
 
I would drill the back also. I have never drilled a tank like that but drilling the ttom is more risky from what I have read. Rendos had a tank bottom fall out that was drilled in the bottom if I remember correctly. I would just drill 5 holes... returns and one feed. Tom at glass cages can drill it for you. Just make sure he understands where you want it drilled.
I would go for the OM. If there is one thing I've learned in this hobby paying a little more for a better product more than pays for itself in the long run. If you don't want the 4 way you could get 2 squirts for ~ $250 - 300. Dave loves the squids though....
The 30" sounds good to me since you are going DSB.

The same critters who live in LR are not the same ones you need for a DSB to work properly.
Click to expand...

Just curious. Who are you getting your DSB info from? Shimeck? Calfo? Borneman? Goemans?

Chris
 
I don't remember exactly who it was I was reading so much on DSB's from, Shimeck I belive. This has been quite some time ago when I did so much reading, but he made sence to me. From what I understand The sand fauna are different than rock fauna, although you will undoubetly get sand critters hanging on live rock if it was near the sand. Different worms and snails are the most valuable that burrow and mix the sand. I know lots of people think they are nutrient sinks but I personally am to lazy to vacume CC or a shallow bed. Especially if I go with the 30" tall. So sink away :) I will try and find the articles I read that sold me on DSB's. I am leaning twords more softies and LPS who can handle a more nutrient rich enviroment also. I wouldn't run a DSB if I was SPS dominent. I just have a few hardy SPS for the added variety but realize they will not thrive well with the higher nutrients a DSB tends to run.
Just for cost effectivness I am gonna go ahead and drill the tank but run the scwds for now. I can always add the OM easy enouph later if the holes are there. I love the revolution attachment they have on OM's sight. Pretty neat the way it ocilates and goes up and down. I would have more in my CLoop doing it the way I wanted than the tank if I wasn't carefull!
 
Wow, I can't belive I found the article on the net! It is shimeck and this is a excerpt from the article.....Although his artice is a little old as far as how fast our information in aquaria changes but I still kinda buy into a DSB theory, and I just plain ol like the look :)

Ron Shimeck:
There should be a appropriate innoculum of organisms from live sand. The appropriate fauna will not be found on live rock. The aquarist should avoid of major infaunal predators except in the largest of systems. This means NO "sand-sifting" animals. These are sifting the sand to feed on the organisms in it. You want those organisms - so the predators should not be added. On the other hand, burrowing sand swallowers such as sea cucumbers or sea urchins are fine. They disturb the sediments and primarily eat bacteria not animals.

It is normal for sand beds to accumulate fine particulate matter. This is mostly fecal pellets and is utilized by both the sediment infauna and bacteria as food and substrate.

Siphoning, disturbing or cleaning of the sediments will result in significant removal or mortality of sediment organisms and may severely damage the functional aspect of the sand bed.
 
If you are planning on using an OceansMotions product(s) in the future, then I would call Paul at OM (his cell phone number is on the web site) and he will be more than happy to give you some advice as to where to drill holes and advise you how to set up the flow in your tank.

SCWDs will reduce your flow considerably (when they work). I would recommend the OM 4-Way over the SCWD.

You don't have to drill your tank up like swiss cheese to have a closed loop. I drilled only one hole in the back of my 140 for the feed line of the CL going to the ReeFlo Dart. I am using a 4-Way and all of my returns are going over the side (as per Paul's suggestion). The two in the back are going down the back wall (made from black pvc pipe to match the black background) and then angle off (under the sand) to the front of the tank. The two lower returns will be pointed up at a 45 degree angle, toward the top of the overflows on the back wall. The other two lines will return over the edge at the two front corners, also blowing back at the overflows. Paul told me I didn't even need the hole in the back if I didn't want to drill it. I could use a 1.5" siphon made from pvc to feed the Dart.

I am also on your side about the DSB. Just have to make sure you have a good diversity of sand bed fauna - and add to it every year or so to boost the populations of critters. I think this is where a lot of people that have failed with DSBs have gone wrong.

Just my 2 cents....
 
I thought that sounded like Shimeck. I would be very curious to know how the fauna differs but if I can get curious enough I guess I can go look it up:)
Chris
 
I just skimmed the article last night but I think mostly in the worms. Worms prefer soft sand to burrow in and do not ussually hang out in rock pores best I can remember. Their food source is in the sand and is why they are constantly plowing through it "turning it" over so to say. Not to say you wouldn't get some good sand critters in the LR just a better idea to get some true live sand if you plan on a properly functioning DSB to ensure the best chance of it working properly.
 
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