Alk Problems With Bio-sea?

AgentSPS

AgentSPS

New member
I have been using Bio Sea mix for about a year now with good results. About a month ago I purchased a box and did two 30 gal water changes in a two week period. Soon after I noticed that many of my encrusting montiporas were starting to STN and I had some RTN of various acroporas.

I ran some tests and noticed that my KH was 5! Alarmed I mixed up a sample of the new salt and the KH was less than 3! Immediately I contacted Bio Sea and they shot holes into Salifert for having unreliable test kits.

I ran a follow up test using LaMotte and found the KH to be 4.5 which, while slightly higher, is still way off.

I have provided Bio Sea a sample of my batch of salt and so far the only response I have received was that the salt does not 'look' like theirs and that they want to send to an independant lab for analysis.

Meanwhile I am out $400 of coral and am looking at switching to something else.

Have others had any similar experiences? If you could take a few minutes to run an alkalinity test on a sample of your batch and post the readings I would be curious to see what people find.

I think on my batch someone forgot to add in the buffer! Without assigning lot numbers to their salt Bio Sea has no way of tracking the bad batch!
 
I thought I was the only one. I have been using Bio Sea from the beginning. For some odd reason, I decided to test a new batch of saltwater. Ca and pH were good, but Alk was WAY low (like yours.) I tested again to be sure, and had the same results. I contacted them, and like you were told, they stated that the test kit was no good. That didn't make sense to me, as I tested my tank water which read 9.

What I need to do is test the ALK of the tank prior to a WC and then immediately after one. I drip limewater 24/7, so the tank parameters are normally excellent.

Like you, I am paying a bit more money for what is supposed to be better salt and I expect better results. The other side of the story is that my tank is doing great. No algae, never had any readable nitrates, and crystal clear water. I am getting the results I want regardless of the initial readings of freshly mixed salt water. I never lost any corals like you did, so obviously I'm not nearly as irritated as you are.

Let me know if there is anything else you need.

Edit: Here are the results I posted to the manufacturer when I had these issues a few weeks ago:

SG: 1.027 (I purposefully mixed a bit high)

pH: 8.6 - most likely due to it being a fresh batch

Cal: 450

Alk: 4.5dKH

Now, I don't know squat about reef chemistry, but if I am not mistaken, as the pH drops, the Alk should increase. I don't know what ratio this would occur (if at all.)
 
Old Salty-

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I wonder how many others out there will come forward with similar results. I continue to lose coral as the week goes by. Today I lost my Tyree blue chalice. I have had this piece for 3 years and it has been through some major stuff and survived. Bio Sea, I am convinced, really messed up my tank.

Despite all this my lfs gave me a free box which he tested and found to be within NSW range for alk. Rather than switch to another salt and introduce another variable I am going to do a series of water changes using this good batch.

Either way I am ****ed off as all hell at how Mike at Bio Sea is handling this. His arrogance is getting in the way of his customer service. He should just acknowledge that maybe a bad batch went out and ask what he can do to make it right. I am a reasonable guy and would probably only request he replace my bad salt with good salt.
 
So, you had the LFS test a separate batch of BioSea and it checked out good? When you get home, test the same batch that the LFS did with your equipment and check the results. I would be interested in knowing if a bad batch did indeed go out. I have two bags left of a box; one of which will be opened in the next day or so. I will go ahead and run the tests on the batch and see what happens. If it tests low, I will send a sample to them so they can perform their own tests. My work schedule prevents me from being able to take a sample to the LFS prior to Wednesday, so I may not get this done too soon. As for claiming that you have sent them another name brand of salt, that's kind of hitting below the belt. Calling a customer a liar (especially when that customer has been using a product for two years) certainly won't generate more business.

Sorry to hear that you are losing corals as a result. I would definately check EVERYTHING else out as well. I'm no expert by any means, but could low Alk result in coral death?
 
I mixed up 20 gals using the replacement batch the LFS compt me. KH using Salifert is 3.2 and LaMotte is 3.5. Looks like this is still from the bad batch. Funny thing is that it was from the top of a new pallet shipment they just received. So I guess I can flush that 20 gals down the drain.

I am going to bring my test kits to the LFS and try testing their sample to see if I get same readings as them.
 
Sorry to hear that! I'll make sure to stay away from it. There's something wrong with that salt for sure. What a cop out for them to say the sample might not be theirs. Give me a break. I'll make sure I let all my friends know. Also I'll make sure to share you results with the maintenance companies in the area too. Hope things will get well
 
"As for dKH, BIO-SEA at SG 1.026 should be 8.75-9.25."


That is what it should be according to Mike at Aqua Craft. I could understand that maybe some bad test kits have gone out as well. Having a Lamotte kit blows that theory out of the water. Even stranger that they are reading very close to each other. I will be mixing up a new batch of saltwater in the next few days using an unopened bag of BioSea. I will make this batch a bit smaller than usual so I don't wind up wasting too much product or water. If it doesn't test good, I may contact them about this again.

If necessary, I guess we could add some baking soda to the mixture which will increase the Alk. Althought that is pretty easy to do, I don't use Instant Ocean because I don't feel that I should have to add anything to salt in order to achieve results (calcium). Since I pay more for BioSea, I'm really against the idea of having to add anything to it.

Edit: According to Dr. Farley's calculator, 1.47 teaspoons of baking soda will raise the Alk of 15 gallons of water from 3.5 to 9.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6550955#post6550955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
"As for dKH, BIO-SEA at SG 1.026 should be 8.75-9.25."
Click to expand...

And that is what it used to be until this recent batch problem. BTW the CA for this new batch is around 320. Pretty low as compared to the mid 400's it used to mix up at.


<
If necessary, I guess we could add some baking soda to the mixture which will increase the Alk.
Edit: According to Dr. Farley's calculator, 1.47 teaspoons of baking soda will raise the Alk of 15 gallons of water from 3.5 to 9. [/B]
Click to expand...


I have been adding buffer to the tank to raise the KH from 5 to NSW levels. At this point, rather than add buffer, I am probably going to dump the 20 gals that I just made and throw the new batch of salt away too. If they are this lax on their quality control process I am worried what else might be off with their salt.

I have restored my tanks KH/alk to acceptable levels and even my hardiest corals are acting very strange. I have a colony of zoos that still will not open up. I suspect something else might be wrong with the salt. Running carbon for now before introducing a new variable by switching salt brands.
 
That is low calcuim!! So, you're whole tank had an Alk of 5? That isn't too good either. Again, I don't really know enough about reef chemistry to say whether or not low Alk would cause coral death. It would certainly cause them not to grow very well.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6553029#post6553029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
That is low calcuim!! So, you're whole tank had an Alk of 5? That isn't too good either. Again, I don't really know enough about reef chemistry to say whether or not low Alk would cause coral death. It would certainly cause them not to grow very well.
Click to expand...

Yes. I did 2 possibly 3 thirty gallon water changes using this batch before noticing the RTN/STN. Montiporas are very sensitive to alk problems so I suspected that right away. Tests confirmed my guess as the KH was 5 (NSW ~9).
 
I did some searching on another forum, and it seems that everyone that measures the ALK of BioSea with a hobbyist test kit has low readings. This was also true of their ME salt.

I have only tested one freshly mixed batch, so I have no clue as to what each fresh batch would have tested. My tank reads around 9, and there is no way that the limewater drip is increasing the ALK of 150+ gallons of water from 5 to 9.

Why not ask Dr. Farley what his thoughts are regarding the chemistry of your water? Couldn't hurt.
 
Update:

It has been a few weeks and I have done about 3 x 30gal water changes using IO. After the first 30 gallon water change, some of the zoos that have not been open for weeks opened up! All my corals stopped STN/RTN and the color has started to come back on many of them.

So that is proof enough for me that BioSea is garbage and I will never use an aquacraft product again.

Nice to know I don't need to spend the extra $$ for salt anymore either.
 
IO is low in Ca, about 350 ppm, but the Alk is great ~4meg/l. For tanks w/ SPS's that consume alot of Alk that is good IMO. Ca is easy to raise in a fresh batch of SW. Alittle Kent Turbo Ca goes a long way.
If you want to hear an "infomercial" about Aquacraft salts join reefaquariumguide.com. Mike never stops- always a salesman. Just my opinion..........
 
IO did test very low in CA. Around 370ppm. KH was high though. Can't remember but it was above NSW. MG also tested about 1300 so I was pleased with that since MG is difficult and $$ to raise.

I am not too worried about the low CA as my reactor can easily fix that.

So far so good.

BTW it is always shady when the science is too close to the sales.
 
Glad to hear about your corals snapping back to life. I have spoken to the guy that I buy corals from and he recommended Tropic Marin. I may give that a shot pending on how easily I can get it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6655850#post6655850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
Glad to hear about your corals snapping back to life. I have spoken to the guy that I buy corals from and he recommended Tropic Marin. I may give that a shot pending on how easily I can get it.
Click to expand...

Tropic Marin is very good salt and the standard in Europe. It is just a bit expensive. Dr Foster and Smith has a pretty good deal. Once in a while they have free shipping on dry goods so you could stock up then.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=7373&N=2004+113009
 
Thanks for the link. No extra shipping charges for the weight and still cost less than BioSea. I really don't mind paying a little bit more for the better salts. Like you, I expect the results to be in line with price and not opposite.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Brian60077
Red Sea Salt
Replies
3
Views
354
Uncle99
Uncle99
M
Rock hard crushed coral sand bed
Replies
8
Views
401
Jimbob
Jimbob
E
Setting up new 60 gallon tank. Mixing initial water question
Replies
7
Views
332
Elmareefer
E
Reignfire
Stray current
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
griss
griss
R
Stay Away
Replies
6
Views
273
saltypilot
S
Back
Top